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Schweb's Lounge Forum for general conversation, chit chat, or most topics that don't fit in another forum.

Is Apple becoming Microsoft


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macboy1

 
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This is an interesting perspective, if a little longwinded. The premise being now that Apple has power, they are turning against their roots and becoming the new MS.

I guess power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Jobs - Is Apple Becoming Arrogant? (Nothing Here But Trees)
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schweb

 
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I haven't read the article, but I will say now that Apple is no longer the "underdog" they do things sometimes that I don't think is right and sometimes even might verge on abuse of their market position.

Now whether they do it purposely, do it because of Steve's ego, or unwittingly do it because they haven't come to grips yet with their market position, I don't know.

But I will say that if Apple continues down the path it's been going, it will eventually get slapped hard by the Justice Department so hopefully somebody internally in the company is on top of this.

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Village Idiot

 
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Can you put a leash on a CEO?

Job's aggressiveness was fine when that's exactly what Apple needed to succeed and press forward in the market to make money. But now, they're going to need to transform from a "I do it how I want, when I want. I'm always right, you're always wrong", mentality to something with more finesse.

Sure, keep up the good work and do what you're doing, just when you make a mistake (iPhone 4 antenna fiasco), don't basically call your consumers idiots and tell them that they're doing something as simple as holding a cell phone wrong. I know that it's really been blown out of proportion, but when you're becoming as high profile as Apple is it starts to become more beneficial to not shoot first and ask questions later.

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schweb

 
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I'm not even referring to how they treat customers, it's worse than that in some cases. It's where they attempt to use market presence to limit choice.

The way they reportedly threatened the record labels about selling music on Amazon is a good example.

It's that type of stuff that will get them in the most trouble and makes them look the most like Microsoft.

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People vote with their pocket book when Apple quits making increasing profits quarter after quarter year after year then they need to change until then I don't see it happening.
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Originally Posted by osxx View Post
People vote with their pocket book when Apple quits making increasing profits quarter after quarter year after year then they need to change until then I don't see it happening.
That's only partially true, and it isn't why Microsoft changed.

Microsoft only changed because the US an European government found them in violation of anti-trust laws.

Apple won't be forced to change by the consumer, but if they unfairly leverage their position, they'll be forced to change by the law.

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DarkestRitual

 
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No. Apple has competent executives.
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The author has made a good point about possible and actual issues for developers. And that's about it. Stating that Apple's iPhone 4 is to 3GS as Microsoft Windows Vista was to its predecessor XP—the return rate being even lower for the former in Apple's case, is drivel. Note that I'm not even questioning his comparison between software and hardware.

If sending the phone to Apple in the rare case of replacing the battery is too much of a hassle, the choice is simple: buy another phone. I'm not saying that sealed-in batteries are a good thing per se, but if it considerably extends the battery life, then I don't really mind. The 3GS is my first iPhone, by the way. That's when the battery capacity was good enough for me to accept that it was non-user-replaceable. Until the release of the 3GS, there was no way I would buy an iPhone. Everyone has a choice.

I also don't understand why his 3GS would run slow on iOS 4. Mine worked perfectly as always after the upgrade. Maybe the author has a 3G and not 3GS?

Better lose a bar on the iPhone 4 than losing an iPhone 4 in the bar.
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jpepperman95

 
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I definitely agree with the author, but some of his examples are too case by case based. For example, the iPhone upgrade not working. When I upgraded from Tiger to Leopard on my mac, it ran like a dog. Instead of instantly downgrading, i backed up my files and reformatted the drive. I did this for Snow Leopard and I have no issues regarding stability. This would be a good first step if my 3GS was giving me problems.

I think what he is getting at in terms of Microsoft is too much brand diversification, and then intimidating their customers into using sub-par products. They have tried to get their hands into every sector of the tech market, while their core (Windows, Office, Exchange) suffer. Bill Gates summed this up when he envisioned every computer in the world running Microsoft software. In this world, I would have a computer with only the following software/peripherals/services:
-Windows 7
-Office 12
-Bing
-Internet Explorer
-Outlook Express
-Microsoft branded mouse/keyboard
-A Zune HD
-A Hotmail account

By comparison, Apple's ideal customer has:
-OS X (but windows or linux if you want)
-Any word processor, but if you like, Pages
-Google, Bing, Yahoo
-Safari, but Mozilla and Chrome are looking good
-an iPhone, but if you want porn, an Android
-etc...

Apple has realized that their customers don't need to be intimidated into using only their software. Microsoft hasn't.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpepperman95 View Post
In this world, I would have a computer with only the following software/peripherals/services:
-Windows 7
-Office 12
-Bing
-Internet Explorer
-Outlook Express
-Microsoft branded mouse/keyboard
-A Zune HD
-A Hotmail account

By comparison, Apple's ideal customer has:
-OS X (but windows or linux if you want)
-Any word processor, but if you like, Pages
-Google, Bing, Yahoo
-Safari, but Mozilla and Chrome are looking good
-an iPhone, but if you want porn, an Android
-etc...

Apple has realized that their customers don't need to be intimidated into using only their software. Microsoft hasn't.
Ok now let's be fair....

Apple doesn't include any browser except Safari in OS X. You can install others, but you can also install others in Windows including Chrome and Firefox. And Microsoft, at least in Europe, gives you a choice of browsers when you intall. Apple doesn't.

Microsoft gives you a choice of search providers in IE, just like you can change from the Google default of Safari.

Apple has tied the iPod to only work with iTunes.

Apple supplies Apple-branded mice and keyboards with their Macs.

Apple includes Mail app and bundles iLife with their new Macs. They also include at least a trial of iWorks.

I mean let's be serious here, neither really is a pillar of open standards and ecosystems.

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Village Idiot

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpepperman95 View Post
In this world, I would have a computer with only the following software/peripherals/services:
-Windows 7
-Office 12
-Bing
-Internet Explorer
-Outlook Express
-Microsoft branded mouse/keyboard
-A Zune HD
-A Hotmail account

By comparison, Apple's ideal customer has:
-OS X (but windows or linux if you want)
-Any word processor, but if you like, Pages
-Google, Bing, Yahoo
-Safari, but Mozilla and Chrome are looking good
-an iPhone, but if you want porn, an Android
-etc...

Apple has realized that their customers don't need to be intimidated into using only their software. Microsoft hasn't.
I have a self built PC with the peripherals and specifications that I want and that are not pre picked by another company. Apart from that, this is what's in my world.

Windows 7
Chrome
Google
iTunes
iPhone
iPod
Apple aluminum keyboard
Logitech mouse
Web mail
Comcast e-mail account
1&1 e-mail account
Yahoo e-mail account

The only thing I might possibly be missing is OS X.

Kind of goes against the picture you're trying to paint.

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I always figured that is what Sooper Fast! meant in your specs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtravis7 View Post
I always figured that is what Sooper Fast! meant in your specs.
I have MBP that I use for photo, video, and sound editing. I'd like a pro for that or at least an i7.

That and I can't mention that which shall not be named.

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Didn't read the article, but here's my 2-bits on the issue:

Apple has been riding the pop-culture wave, well past their welcome. The iMac started bringing them back to life, but the iPod really shot them to stardom. They've still managed to do quite well with this, especially with the advent of the iPhone, but what we're starting to see now is the beginning of a revolution.

Apple is starting to let their products suffer a little bit. And by that, I mean they are dragging out the timeline between updates, creating hardware designs that are faulty, they don't listen to the customer base concerning desires of design, and their customer service, which has historically been the best, has seen an increase in complaints.

Add to that their head honcho. Steve Jobs, a visionary to be sure, has always pushed off the faults of their products on others, usually the developers or the customers. They have largely been overlooked for this by their loyal fan-base, however, that doesn't fly in the mainstream. That's ignoring his comments, which scare creators, that desktop computing is dead.

There's also all of the lawsuits they pursue, or have been pursued against. This creates the image, no longer of the hippy, tree-hugging computer hacker favorite, but of the evil corporate giant.

Personally, the only apple products I like are their PC line. OSX rocks my socks, and they provide a good interface. However, I do see the tide turning in a way I don't necessarily like, and apple as a company does many things I don't agree with, as does their eccentric head. I've found myself using more and more linux products in my daily life.

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thomas998

 
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Jobs has become Apples own worst enemy.

He has slowly started to become a caricature of a fashion designer from Zoolander. He no longer seems to care about the functionality of what they produce as he cares more about the design and how it looks.

His disdain for buttons on the mouse turned off more than a few laptop users, my wife was one of those that hated the fact that she could do a right mouse click that she stopped using her macbook and went back to a PC... I fully expect that we shall soon see a shiny black or white slate that looks oh so sexy, It will be Jobs vision of a new computer, yet it will have no screen or buttons on it because they would interfere with the flow of the design. When a journalist asks how user are supposed to see anything on the screen which isn't there Jobs will simply say, "I will know what is on the screen so we do not need a screen to confirm what I know."

At the rate Apple is going that is where they are headed, to become some futuristic design firm that parades around useless products that look good but have no functionality because the function would get in the way of the design.

Long term I would short Apple shares, because as long as Jobs is there the company is at risk of self destructing.
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