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Schweb's Lounge Forum for general conversation, chit chat, or most topics that don't fit in another forum.

Why is Apple so slow?


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neonmac

 
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Ok so I am a computer science student and I love building computers ( Linux ) and I love Apple. I also like to build high performance machines for overclocking. I am a Mac fanatic though and Apple is my main choice for everything. Though, I hate how Apple is so slow at updating the Macs. I understand the whole market thing about each product having enough time on the market. Near everywhere has got core i3 / i5 and i7 available for laptops, blu ray drives, higher end GPU's and other features. Yet as Apple users, we do not have any of the real tech candy. Look at the Mac Pro. A serious workstation that comes with only a Radeon 4870 512mb card?. I love Mac's but this does kindda really bug me.

Just wondering if it bugs anybody else?.

The only thing Microsoft could make that would not suck, would be a vacum.

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the8thark

 
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Not really. Firstly you have no idea what Apple has just round the corner. And secondly PC computer makers only have the latest hardware to get sales cause they don't make the OS. So they have to be cutting edge or they lose sales. But Apple has OS X as well as it's hardware. And they'd rather take the tiem to get their hardware and software integrated properly so they just work. And this just working is what Apple is famous for.

And also for what 95% of what home users do with their computers, what Apple is selling now will be good for 5years +. So there's no worry really. Only if you want cutting edge hardware, best you build your own PC and update it's parts with new ones the second they come out on the market.

But if you want a cutting edge OS that is stable just works and is pretty to look at you can't go past OS X. It really is the best OS on the market.
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alexsd123

 
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Who really needs i7 chips in their computer, let alone notebook? They will probably come out eventually, though.
Apple already has i5, i7 desktops and octo-core processors.

As for your Mac Pro thing, they can get 4x NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512MB... And 8 cores.....

Once (if) blu-ray replaces the DVD, Apple will surely have a blu-ray drive in their computers.
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Jamie-Jamie

 
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It's the same kinda argument that says: 454cc V8s exist, so it sucks that every car maker doesn't put them in every car because they make it go fast, VROOM!!

hehe

Fast fast fast isn't the absolute everything to everybody. The Radeon that comes stock in the Mac Pro, can it play videos? Yeah. Can it drive the giant screens? Yeah. Can it fill those screens with video? Yeah.

Then it's good enough. Anything more becomes a very expensive space heater as the silicon sits there and heats up to do three things.

Zero
Zilch
Nada

Sure, Apple could be constantly putting out new hardware, constantly revising what goes into any particular model, but then their boxes would become just as flaky and poor-quality as any old crap consumer box you find at Best Buy.

Remember: There's a lot more to quality than just MHz.
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Mercedes1787

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8thark View Post
Not really. Firstly you have no idea what Apple has just round the corner. And secondly PC computer makers only have the latest hardware to get sales cause they don't make the OS. So they have to be cutting edge or they lose sales. But Apple has OS X as well as it's hardware. And they'd rather take the tiem to get their hardware and software integrated properly so they just work. And this just working is what Apple is famous for.

And also for what 95% of what home users do with their computers, what Apple is selling now will be good for 5years +. So there's no worry really. Only if you want cutting edge hardware, best you build your own PC and update it's parts with new ones the second they come out on the market.

But if you want a cutting edge OS that is stable just works and is pretty to look at you can't go past OS X. It really is the best OS on the market.
OOO, whats this about (I hope theres an iMac with the latest/best ATI Radeon HD (is the 5970 good, performance, speed and longevity)

24'' Intel iMac, 3.06 GHZ dual core processor, 4 GB ram @ 800mhz, Nvidia 8800 GT graphics card with 512MB of GDDR3 memory, 500 GB Serial ATA hard drive, 6 MB shared L2 cache.
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DarkestRitual

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie-Jamie View Post
It's the same kinda argument that says: 454cc V8s exist, so it sucks that every car maker doesn't put them in every car because they make it go fast, VROOM!!

hehe

Fast fast fast isn't the absolute everything to everybody. The Radeon that comes stock in the Mac Pro, can it play videos? Yeah. Can it drive the giant screens? Yeah. Can it fill those screens with video? Yeah.

Then it's good enough. Anything more becomes a very expensive space heater as the silicon sits there and heats up to do three things.

Zero
Zilch
Nada

Sure, Apple could be constantly putting out new hardware, constantly revising what goes into any particular model, but then their boxes would become just as flaky and poor-quality as any old crap consumer box you find at Best Buy.

Remember: There's a lot more to quality than just MHz.
Hey, I work at best buy... and some of those towers, yea, they're consumer crap, but they're pretty ridiculous. We've got a couple HPs with the X4 and 8 gigs of RAM, huge fsbs, etc.

That said, every day I am so glad when I come home to my Mac.
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stans34

 
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Not sure what you guys mean by consumer crap, but as far as I'm aware, they charge quite a bit for those towers at BB (whether they are crap or not)
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DarkestRitual

 
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679 for an HP with 8gigs of DDR3, X4 processor, and 1TB hard disk. By consumer crap we mean prebuilt non custom boxes, at least that's what I mean. Still though, that hardware is pretty good. It's still running windows, but what can ya do?
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Jamie-Jamie

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkestRitual View Post
Hey, I work at best buy... and some of those towers, yea, they're consumer crap, but they're pretty ridiculous. We've got a couple HPs with the X4 and 8 gigs of RAM, huge fsbs, etc.

That said, every day I am so glad when I come home to my Mac.
This is true, but once more there's that whole issue of numbers vs. real quality. Not all Windows PCs are junk, just like not all Macs are good (Radeon G3 iBook anybody?) It's just the fact that PC makers don't say, "This is our computer. It has these things. There's an entry-price version, a mid-range one, and a high end one."

Instead, they build 35 disparate models, none of them sharing anything in common aside from Windows 7, and the crapware they install to negate the positive effects of the computer's speed. Some have Intel chips, some have AMD because... well... I don't know why. Some will come with a DVD burner, some might come with a DVD burner and a Blue Ray player. Whatever. There's no rhyme or reason to how they figure out their lineups.

They just throw some stuff in a box and sell it. Some machines just have good quality stuff thrown inside, but an Alienware is designed the very same way as an eMachines. Take board x from supplier y, put in case.
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DarkestRitual

 
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This is all true.
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neonmac

 
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Oh defo, there sure are some good PC's. I built my PC and have over $2.5k invested into it. Though the hardware is good, it is held back by the Vista Ultimate 64bit that is on there. I have Linux on that system and it is used mainly for programming.

I rather wish that I had diverted that money into a Mac Pro or something. After having spent a good time working in a PC technician store, I have had had enough of windows to last a lifetime.

Though as for PC's in BB. I personally think most of them look like cheap ugly computers. I love the sleek and polished look of Apple products. Just a personal opinion. Even before i was into Apple, I thought the same.

The only thing Microsoft could make that would not suck, would be a vacum.

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martyp

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neonmac View Post
Look at the Mac Pro. A serious workstation that comes with only a Radeon 4870 512mb card?. I love Mac's but this does kindda really bug me.
I agree the GT120 and 4870 cards offered with the Mac Pro are pretty poor, however for many applications these cards are more than enough.

For example: financial analysts don't need anything more than great 2D performance (GT120), photographers or graphic designers don't need silly fast 3D cards but need faster VRAM (4870) and finally 3D modellers / CAD users don't have any option but using a Quadro card anyway for OpenGL (optional extra) although most of these people use Windows or Linux at the moment.

The Mac Pro is not a gaming machine, no Mac is any good for that, its a serious workhorse designed to allow you meet deadlines.
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The spec war of late reminds me of the horsepower wars in the auto industry we were
all doing fine with what we had until the new product hit the scene.
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cuhnool

 
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Build a custom box if you really want the latest tech candy. Not entry-level consumer products.

I must ask, why do you need Blu-Ray on your computer?

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Village Idiot

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie-Jamie View Post
It's the same kinda argument that says: 454cc V8s exist, so it sucks that every car maker doesn't put them in every car because they make it go fast, VROOM!!

hehe

Fast fast fast isn't the absolute everything to everybody. The Radeon that comes stock in the Mac Pro, can it play videos? Yeah. Can it drive the giant screens? Yeah. Can it fill those screens with video? Yeah.

Then it's good enough. Anything more becomes a very expensive space heater as the silicon sits there and heats up to do three things.

Zero
Zilch
Nada

Sure, Apple could be constantly putting out new hardware, constantly revising what goes into any particular model, but then their boxes would become just as flaky and poor-quality as any old crap consumer box you find at Best Buy.

Remember: There's a lot more to quality than just MHz.
I find this to be a poor comparison as computer hardware continues to progress as far as performance go where even the base model prebuilt has 10x's the performance as computers 10 years ago. I don't see Mazda 3's leaving the show room with 750whp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyp View Post
I agree the GT120 and 4870 cards offered with the Mac Pro are pretty poor, however for many applications these cards are more than enough.

For example: financial analysts don't need anything more than great 2D performance (GT120), photographers or graphic designers don't need silly fast 3D cards but need faster VRAM (4870) and finally 3D modellers / CAD users don't have any option but using a Quadro card anyway for OpenGL (optional extra) although most of these people use Windows or Linux at the moment.

The Mac Pro is not a gaming machine, no Mac is any good for that, its a serious workhorse designed to allow you meet deadlines.
But what about when video cards = processing power.

What is CUDA?

It's going to make those iMac people really wish they could upgrade video cards when even the slowest Wintel boxes have several cheaper cards that just totally blow away the performance of anything that Apple produces because the video cards are 2 years old and non user upgradable.

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