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The situation in Israel


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eliehass

 
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After 8 years of rockets Israel decides to strike back at the missile launching platforms. There is no way that is un-justified or an overreaction. If mexico fired rockets into texas, even if no one was killed and nothing was damaged, I can guaranty that the US would strike back hard and that no one would think that the US was unjust in doing so. Israel is CONSTANTLY being attacked, it's not just the rockets, and when they retaliate against the attackers people say they need to show restraint. I don't want to diminish 9/11 at all, but ONE (granted, a big one) terrorist attack on our soil and we occupied 2 countries for 6 years and counting, and one of those countries had NOTHING to do with those attacks.

Let's not forget only a few months ago gunmen entered a school and opened fire on the students. This is a country where terror is a way of life, not in the way that we have it here, where we always fear terrorism, they always HAVE terrorism.

The worst part, to me, is that the Palestinians were told to leave when the state of israel was formed, because the neighboring countries told them that they would wipe the state off the map. The one's who didn't leave KEPT THEIR LAND. When the war ended and Israel won, the countries who lost didn't want the Palestinians and put them into camps. This was a horrible breach of human rights, but it is not one that Israel committed. These Palestinians went on to perform acts of terror on Israel, in order to secure their own state, WHICH THEY RECEIVED.

After getting a state, instead of living life and making peace, they proceeded to use it as a launching platform for rockets and more terror. They also destroyed much of the existing infrastructure and farmland which was left intact for them. Oh, and in case you are not aware, they do not produce their own power, Israel supplies them with power.

I'm sorry for this whole rant, and I know that there are two sides to every story, but having lived in Israel for two years it bothers me when people look at Israel as an oppressive nation attacking palestinian children and civilians for no reason. They are not killing civilians on purpose. They are targeting military and terrorist installations that are attacking them. In any such operations, as we see in Iraq and Afghanistan, some civilians will be hurt or killed. Israel sometimes even tells civilians that they will bomb an area beforehand, as they did in the Lebanon war, which lessens the effectiveness of the attack because the enemy knows it's coming, just to give civilians time to leave. This is in stark contrast to the terrorists who are firing missiles, blowing themselves and other stuff up, and shooting, all targeted at civilians.
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Um, the Palestinians were kicked out of their land. They were forced out of their homes and massacred.
The Gazans do attack Israel or try to attack Israel daily because they are fighting against occupiers, the Israelis. Once upon a time. American citizens were fighting against British occupiers but instead of blowing things up they were throwing tea in the sea. This is what people do when they are being oppressed.
Israel is now massacring the Gazans. It is ridiculous and barbaric.
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You are right, Israel is being constantly attacked and they will continue to be constantly attacked until they end the occupation!!
And you say Israel is not targeting civiliians. I saw two girls on the news this morning both under teh age of 10 sisters. They were SHOT while riding a bike!!
There was no terrorist next to them give me a break!!
The IDF is just as barbaric as any other terror organization.
Israelis suffer terror for terrorist groups.
But what's worse is that Israel itself sponsors terror as a state which is why many people don't call it terror!
Because one army has an official name and one is branded a terrorist group...when the only difference between them is skin color and religion hahah
what a joke. Terror on both sides, violence on both sides.
sick.
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baggss

 
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The sad fact is that both sides are at fault.

The Palestinians (Hamas) in Gaza have taken things into their own hands and have gone against the Palestinian Authority which was actively negotiating with Israel for the better of the Palestinian people. Hamas has simply decided to do their own thing and are actively making the plight of the Palestinians as a whole worse because their refusal to negotiate or talk with Israel, period.

Condemning Israel and ranting about them being occupiers is silly unless you are willing to place the blame on both sides where it belongs. Calling the Israeli government or IDF a "terrorist" organization is silly and is simply a way to try and whip up anti-Israeli sentiment.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by baggss View Post
Condemning Israel and ranting about them being occupiers is silly unless you are willing to place the blame on both sides where it belongs. Calling the Israeli government or IDF a "terrorist" organization is silly and is simply a way to try and whip up anti-Israeli sentiment.
You say that Hamas goes against the Palestinian authority and makes things worse for the Palestinians by not negotiating with Israel. Ok fine.
But look at it from this point of view. Hamas was elected democratically period with a majority vote. However the US and Israel want someone in power who wil be their puppet ie. Mahmoud Abbas.
So think if your a Palestinian that voted for Hamas yet outside powers made someone else in power and this person is a puppet that has a lot of money and couldn't care less about the people. I think you'd be pretty miffed.

And about calling the IDF a terrorist organization...I could say the same about calling Palestinians terrorists. I could say it's simply a way to whip up anti-Palestinian sentiment.
What is said about one side could be said about the other in most cases, I recognize that.
But like I said in my post, they both terrorize each other, but people accept the IDF but they call the other side terrorists...why?
Hmmm let's think about that.

And about them being occupiers, the Israelis are still building settlements in the West Bank and Gaza though they have been told to stop the settlements by the USA and the UN how many times?
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I dont want to get into my personal politics but the whole situation is very sad.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maconvert View Post
But like I said in my post, they both terrorize each other, but people accept the IDF but they call the other side terrorists...why?
Hmmm let's think about that.
Please enlighten us...


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Quote:
Originally Posted by baggss View Post
Please enlighten us...
bias

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Quote:
Originally Posted by maconvert View Post
bias

It was an honest request. Are just unwilling or simply unable to respond to it?


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Quote:
Originally Posted by baggss View Post
It was an honest question. Are just unwilling or simply unable to answer it?
Neither.
Why is one considered legitimate and the other "terrorist"

Well, one is backed by an official state, Israel.
It helps that the US, a superpower backs it up.
Hezbollah is also an official part of the state of Lebanon. The Western world considers it a terrorist group but to residents of the Middle East it is a legitimate group.
What I meant by the one word bias, is that it's all relative.
I'm going to quote something very often quoted sorry if your tired of hearing it, but it sums up my point:
"One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter."
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Tarek

 
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Let's not talk about Politics online. I'm an Arab (Egyptian) and I know exactly what is happening in Palestine. However, Palestinians aren't totally innocent here, I hate Israel so much but here I am saying it, Palestine isn't totally innocent.

I'm going to explain the situation briefly and I'm not lying about this.

- So Israel colonized Palestine since many years already and no one can do anything about that because most countries pussied out (excuse my tone). Israel should buy Palestine the food, clothing, education, and everything else since they colonized their country, and that's what they have been doing. However, a few days ago Israel stopped buying them stuff and Palestinians got really TICKED off about that. Our president, the Egyptian president, Hussni Mubarak met with the responsible ones in Palestine and made a deal with them, he said wait exactly 48 hours and you'll find supplies of medication, food, clothing, and everything else. Sadly, Palestine didn't listen and they started bombing Israel.

Israel warned them and asked them several times to stop that or they will strike back, but Palestinians were too stubborn to listen and they kept bombing. Of course weak, locally made bombs. However, Israel got ticked off and their patience was gone, they striked back hard and hundreds of Palestinians were dead and thousands were injured.

So why wouldn't the Palestinians listen from the first place? Now they're coming and blaming Egypt for not interfering and for not opening the gates. We opened the gates for them once, a few months ago if I recall right, and they messed up our country so much and they killed several of our soldiers. They actually just murdered a few Egyptian soldiers at the gate yesterday or before, so yes those people are totally crazy. I'm only really sad for the children who don't have anything to do with this, who are dying because of their stupid families. Why would the families elect Hamaas? The current government? Hamaas is stupid and warlike.

Sorry for my long post and I hope a lot of people understood the situation like how it really is, not just how other countries show them on the news.
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I have often wondered: why has not one caring Arab country offered land for the Palestinians if they care so much??
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Because we did offer them land a few months ago and they destroyed everything. The government and the people donated food, clothes, and many other things but yet they don't say thank you, as a matter of fact, they kept killing our soldiers. I just feel bad for the children who have nothing to do with that, I feel sorry for them for having such dumb families. They elected Hamaas huh? Way to go, now they're running from their own country.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaNoHair View Post
I have often wondered: why has not one caring Arab country offered land for the Palestinians if they care so much??
That is an extremely myopic view point.

Imagine if a large group of people colonized Canada, claiming the country was their ancient God-given land. Then, they proceeded to forcibly displace the Canadians.

Do you think think the rest of North America would just say to the Canadians "hey, no problem, ya'll can just come down here and live with us."?

I'm not taking sides on this, because I myself am not sure of my views on the holy land, but I do think that the general public, outside of the middle east really does not understand the situation there. To criticize the other, peace-loving nations of the middle east in this fashion just seems wrong to me.

Liquid and computers don't mix. It might seem simple, but we see an incredible amount of people post here about spills. Keep drinks and other liquids away from your expensive electronics!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaNoHair View Post
I have often wondered: why has not one caring Arab country offered land for the Palestinians if they care so much??
Many Arab nations have, including 3 million in Jordan

Palestinian diaspora - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The conflict has been ruining the whole region since before 1948, maybe it can never be resolved but until the USA and EU lean on Israel, and the Arab nations including Syria and Iran (I know Iran is not an Arab nation but it is a major player in the area) are forced to rein in the extremists then it wont get any better.

I believe most Israelis and Palestinians on the ground want peace and prosperity, but unless all the major players are serious about resolving it, it will just continue to fester.

It can be done, after all, the US, Republic of Ireland, the UK as well as the paramilitaries on both sides in N Ireland all came together and made peace in N Ireland, and everybody benefited.

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