09-04-2008, 11:11 PM

Ok, So I wanted to create a PRODUCTIVE thread here. There are now 61 days to the election for president of the US.

I know which candidate I like based on the issues they have both brought up so far (I am leaning towards McCain) however I have not totally made up my mind yet, as there are still 61 days. I want to remain as close to neutral as possible until at least the first debate.

Either way I have a question. I don't actually know what the difference between the two parties actually are. What are some things the different parties do with out mentioning in the elections because It is already understood that they are going to do it because they are part of a certain party.

It would be helpful if you explained this as if you were talking to a college student who happens to also be special ed.

09-04-2008, 11:29 PM

http://www.ontheissues.org/default.htm

check this out... It will help you to look at these particular candidates for this election. I would love to respond with my opinions, as a conservative, but I just think it's hard, over the internet, to have a civil discourse about politics.

Good luck.

09-05-2008, 12:50 AM

If you make less than $250,000, then you will be getting a tax cut under Obama. Just something you should know in case you though the Democrat was going to raise your taxes

09-05-2008, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by Kash

If you make less than $250,000, then you will be getting a tax cut under Obama. Just something you should know in case you though the Democrat was going to raise your taxes

But taxes go up if you make more than 250k? I ask because my dad does, and I hope to be shortly after I get on my own. I have my own company now and its doing well and when I am out of college and I have time to fully concentrate on growing it, it is likely I will fall in that bracket, and it is also likely that this president we elect will still be president.

09-05-2008, 12:07 PM

Democrats (being liberals) prefer to expand governmental power. I paint with a broad brush, but this typically means that government spending is raised, resulting in more taxes.

I know i'll probably get kicked for this comment, but so be it...

09-05-2008, 12:13 PM

Actually, I'd say that historically this would be a fair argument. That being said, the current administration has expanded the government bureaucracy and power more than any I remember in my lifetime. Naturally, this has raised expenditures and while taxes are not high NOW because of it, we WILL have to pay it sooner or later, just like a credit card bill.

09-05-2008, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by PowerBookG4

But taxes go up if you make more than 250k? I ask because my dad does, and I hope to be shortly after I get on my own. I have my own company now and its doing well and when I am out of college and I have time to fully concentrate on growing it, it is likely I will fall in that bracket, and it is also likely that this president we elect will still be president.

Here are the tax plans for each candidate in an easy to read visual diagram:

Obama and McCain Tax Proposals

It looks like unless your dad hits the $600,000 mark, he won't be seeing a tax increase.

Originally Posted by budafied

Democrats (being liberals) prefer to expand governmental power. I paint with a broad brush, but this typically means that government spending is raised, resulting in more taxes.

I know i'll probably get kicked for this comment, but so be it...

While you are somewhat correct about the government expansion, I much rather prefer the Democratic approach of tax and spend than the Republican approach of borrow and spend. We end up paying MORE under Republicans because of massive interest rates incurred on that borrowed money. I should also note that Clinton, a Democrat, significantly cut the size of the federal government, which resulted in a surplus for the first time in decades, something the self-proclaimed fiscally responsible Republican party has never been able to do.

Obama plans on lowering taxes for the middle class and raising them on the upper class. So unless you're making $600,000 or more, you're actually better off under Obama than you are under McCain in terms of taxes.

09-05-2008, 12:42 PM

One point that I notice is not being made by the MSM. You cannot tax a business without hurting the employees and those who purchase their product. Reason? Companies do not pay taxes - people do. Taxes are passed onto the consumer. As a business owner if my taxes are increased I either have to 1) pass that increase along in the price of my product or 2) Let some employees go to cut my expenses. Besides if you look at the IRS website you will see that 86% of all taxes are paid by the top 25% of all income earners. The top 50% pay 97% of all taxes. Never in the history of the country has the economy been helped by raising taxes. Our three greatest economic booms (JFK, Reagan and Bush) followed tax cuts.

09-05-2008, 01:52 PM

I'm a Brian Moore supporter, myself.

Not that he's on the Michigan ballot, but still, as a member of the Socialist Party USA, he's mah man.

09-05-2008, 02:01 PM

Republicans increase deficit spending and increase the national debt. Democrats decrease the deficit and have more budget surpluses.

09-05-2008, 02:04 PM

If you extend that back a few years you'll see that Johnson spent similarly.

09-05-2008, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Dysfunction

If you extend that back a few years you'll see that Johnson spent similarly.

LBJ also escalated the Vietnam War, and we all know that deficits explode during long prolonged wars.

09-05-2008, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by Kash

LBJ also escalated the Vietnam War, and we all know that deficits explode during long prolonged wars.

Indeed. You'll find that spending patterns are also intrinsically linked to world events not solely to party affiliation, which was my point.

edit: Either way, I really don't see a significant difference between the major parties. I mean even Ben Stein has commented that America has become an Oligarchy and largely.. I have to agree with him

09-05-2008, 03:45 PM

what a good debate so far

Its just a pity that not everybody debates the issues, but most people make decisions on a vague gut instinct, or just out of habit (repetition compulsion)

Indeed, most of our daily decisions are not even made by our concious self, they are pre arranged by our brains before consciousness has a chance to kick in

So always question your prejudices

09-05-2008, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Kash

Here are the tax plans for each candidate in an easy to read visual diagram:

Obama and McCain Tax Proposals

So after reading the link... excuse me if i'm just being ignorant, but I don't see how its fair when somebody has worked really hard, likely going to school for many years and because of it has climbed the latter and made a lot of money somehow is now responsible to pay almost a million dollars more in taxes while the people who didn't get there get money back. Isn't that like punishing the people for making it?

I think a good tax plan would be don't give any money back, stop spending all the money, and don't charge people who are in the military taxes (or do they already do that).

Or why not increase tax on EVERYBODY wait for the deficits to become surplus to cut taxes down to a level where you can maintain the surplus as a surplus.