06-04-2008, 02:54 AM

I'm a fairly new user to OS X, after 20 years of being a Windows developer. So, as one might expect, I've had a lot of questions about macs and their workings, in the effort to gain the productivity back that I had grown used to in the Windows world.

Some of these issues are apples and oranges, like learning new keyboard shortcuts, some are pleasant surprises, where Mac does something elegant that Windows does clumsily. And some, the Mac does clumsily (or not at all) where Windows does it excellently.

But that's all to be expected. What I have found surprising (and highly frustrating), is the quality of community support for Macs.

No matter how obscure the problem on a PC, I can Google it and find multiple in-depth discussions on the matter. Some of the comments are bunk, and others are spot on. But I almost always get my answers.

With the mac, I have to revise my search a half-dozen times before finally finding one or two people who ask the exact question I have. Great! The problem is, 19 times out of 20, all of the responses are completely anaemic; mac-apologists going on and on about how the mac does it is really better, or why having a missing set of useful functionality is actually an improvement, or how they've never seen that problem on THEIR mac.

Hey mac-apologists!! WHO CARES?? None of your screeds answer the questions these poor people are asking! Why do you all repeatedly invent straw-man questions to answer for them, leaving them with precisely no useful information?

Please PLEASE, help make these community boards useful - If Mac can't do something someone is asking, just write the words "the Mac can't do that," no matter how painful. And refrain from telling them why you really like the way that it doesn't do it. You'll be doing the entire community a tremendous service.

-b

PS - please don't challenge me to list examples of things that the Mac doesn't do, or do as well as elsewhere, unless you are actually prepared to behave as I've outlined above. Otherwise, you'll just continue being part of the problem, and probably look foolish as well.

06-04-2008, 08:02 AM

That's why they are called "discussion forums," so people can discuss things. Frankly I like it just the way it is - an open discussion is much more interesting - and useful - that a single post saying "No, you can't."

And some of us find the term "Mac apologists" to be offensive.

06-04-2008, 08:37 AM

I think that we are headed in that direction. You are seeing more IT professionals and developers starting to switch to Macs for their needs, and as this specific community grows, you will see more technically inclined discussions taking place. Apple corporation needs to step up their efforts in this area, however.

06-04-2008, 08:43 AM

And this cry of frustration will get these "apologists" to stop?

Originally Posted by bluescrubbie

PS - please don't challenge me to list examples of things that the Mac doesn't do, or do as well as elsewhere, unless you are actually prepared to behave as I've outlined above. Otherwise, you'll just continue being part of the problem, and probably look foolish as well.

This is an open forum. If these "apologists" feel the need to interject, they should be allowed. Mac-forums has plenty of rules to keep any discussion civil, please understand this. And feel free to openly discuss any issues you have with your Mac here. This is a very welcoming community.
IMO, a comment like that almost sounds like you're trying ensue an argument here.

06-04-2008, 09:09 AM

I've not come across this kind of attitude yet. One thing that does annoy me a little is when someone posts a reply that is of no use or repeats a previous post. I think you get this on any forum I'd imagine though. Since we're here hating on "mac appologists" I'd like to throw one into the crowd and say:

Whats with "windows haters"? Eaqually as annoying as these so called appologists. Could they be one in the same?

06-04-2008, 09:21 AM

i know there are alot of people that can be considered "windows haters". around my office people consider me one. (i am the only one who uses mac osx) to be honest it is not that i hate windows but i do get very frustrated with it. i know part of the reason i get frustrated with it is i am the un-official i.t. guy for the office so when ever someone has a problem i have to stop what i am doing and go fix it.

06-04-2008, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by sanity1082

i know there are alot of people that can be considered "windows haters". around my office people consider me one. (i am the only one who uses mac osx) to be honest it is not that i hate windows but i do get very frustrated with it. i know part of the reason i get frustrated with it is i am the un-official i.t. guy for the office so when ever someone has a problem i have to stop what i am doing and go fix it.

I could easily see why you'd "hate" windows according to your colleges. I dislike fixing Windows problems for other people. I gets me all riled up.

06-04-2008, 09:38 AM

I can see where you're coming from, there are times when I ask a question I wouldn't mind getting a straight answer either. But like everyone has already said, these are discussion forums, where things are discussed. Sometimes this leads to an answer being found for the person who asked the question. The people who say "Well, the Mac is better because it doesn't do this, and here's why-" well, dealing with these people is part of the fun in discussing something.

06-04-2008, 10:31 AM

Well seeing as how this is your first post here, I don't really see how this problem applies to us

I think I know what you mean though... but part of the problem is Window's users expecting things to work exactly the same as under Windows - which isn't necessarily OS X's intention or aim.

Anyway, I hope we can offer any actual questions you might have in a balanced manner.

06-04-2008, 11:09 AM

If you need an answer to a question you can always try asking in the forum...

06-04-2008, 11:13 AM

Oddly provocative OP, IMHO.

Personally, I find this forum extremely helpful. I suspect the reason you can find answers to Windows problems so easily is two-fold: First is there are simply far many more PCs out there than Macs. And secondly, Windows machines do have more problems than Macs so there are more people looking for and answering those problems.

06-04-2008, 11:42 AM

I don't see how you can class this as being appropriate. If you had read the forum rules, it states quite clearly that this is a:

safe, comfortable atmosphere for members of any age, race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation. Do not engage in personal bickering or flaming; remember to treat all posters how you would want to be treated.

This is not just a place where people say how great their Mac is, because otherwise their would be no "Windows, Classic and Linux" subforum.

06-04-2008, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by bluescrubbie

you'll just continue being part of the problem, and probably look foolish as well.

After a similar time as a Unix admin/developer this statement right here honestly makes me question the validity of the complaint. I can also say that I've had no issue finding answers using google. If you have a question, however, perhaps you should ask it. Someone will very likely know the answer.

06-04-2008, 04:50 PM

You know... the whole reason I switched from Windows to Mac was because Windows had all those problems....

06-04-2008, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by bluescrubbie

..... and probably look foolish as well.

Ironic isn't it?