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-   -   Balanced power UPS or something like that... (http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/other-hardware-peripherals/275206-balanced-power-ups-something-like.html)

Dogbreath 05-19-2012 01:45 PM

Balanced power UPS or something like that...
 
Hi Forum . . .
My goal is to run my studio Mac and ADAM monitors from a balanced power source...like a UPS. I need for the "box" to take regular grid power and store the power like a UPS and deliver clean, continuous power from the "box". The "box" will provide the constant, unfluctuating power for my set up. I am not looking for just a fancy surge protector...and more than a UPS. The power output should be sufficient enough to run the computer, a single 30 inch Cinema Display monitor and two ADAM AX5 speakers (monitors in studio jargon) at 50W each. I realize true balanced power is overkill...but super clean, constant power is my aim. Does anybody have a specific product in mind or any recommendations?

chscag 05-19-2012 03:19 PM

Not a topic for the "Lounge". Moved to "Other Hardware".

Dogbreath 05-19-2012 05:00 PM

Thanks chscag, for moving to the proper forum. I must be honest and admit I didn't search for a more appropriate forum...and I have never even noticed this one. Forgive me this one time. Thanks again.

harryb2448 05-19-2012 07:23 PM

An iDowell iPack may fill the bill:-


iBox, iPack Review

Also more info at OWC who sell them.

Dogbreath 05-19-2012 07:59 PM

Thank you, harryb...the iPack is gettin' close. I need a couple of more outlets...but I am checking further into them with OWC. OWC may have another recommendation.

westom 05-21-2012 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogbreath (Post 1406721)
My goal is to run my studio Mac and ADAM monitors from a balanced power source...like a UPS. I need for the "box" to take regular grid power and store the power like a UPS and deliver clean, continuous power from the "box".

Show me any number from the "box" that says it provides clean or balanced power? 'Dirtiest' power seen in a house comes from a UPS in battery backup mode. 'Cleanest' output is when it connects the computer direct to AC mains.

Numbers from this 120 volt 'sine wave' UPS in battery backup mode. 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts. Is that a pure sine wave output? Of course. Because square waves and the spike are only a sum of pure sine waves. They made claims subjectively. Once we add numbers, the "box" is no longer magic.

Why does a UPS output power so 'dirty'? Because all electronic are so robust as to even make that 270 volt spike irrelevant. Computers have even more robust circuits.

If a UPS outputs 'clean' or 'balanced' power, then you have numbers that say so.

Done inside electronics is to make that power unbalanced. Does not matter how 'balance' you feed it. It must restore the unbalance. Unbalanced is necessary for human safety and other superior design requirements. Balanced power is a rumor that makes naive consumers feel good. It has no purpose in electronic design.

If a UPS does not define what it does with a number, then it is advertising. Lies are legal in advertising because the claim is subjective. No numbers.

Dogbreath 05-22-2012 03:14 PM

hi westom....
thanks for the crash course. I'm just a studio guy looking to make the best out of what he has and I can learn from people like you. I have heard others swear about a massive difference in results between true balanced and unbalanced power in several situations...not just audio production. Some people swear by $2K power cords and cables. Couldn't unbalanced power result in errors in an A/D/A conversion?...thanks again....your naive consumer pal, Dogbreath

So...is balanced power just hype/snake oil?

westom 05-23-2012 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogbreath (Post 1407631)
So...is balanced power just hype/snake oil?

Monster sold speaker wire with ends labeled "amp" and "speaker". Many said they could hear the difference when those wires were reversed. So Monster sold $7 speaker wire for $70. And many recommended it.

So, if I reverse speaker wire then sound is subverted?

Balanced power comes from the same people who are told what to think. Who never demand spec numbers. Easily told how to think by advertising or by political pundits. Should I spell the word scam in all capitals? Or just say Saddam has WMDs.

It feels good. So it must be true? Numbers be dammed? An answer is easy. Posts without numbers are best ignored. Left are the fewer and honest replies.

Dogbreath 05-24-2012 07:54 AM

Relax Westom . . .I posted the thread trying to learn and was seeking a good UPC for my set up. I never once made any claims about any piece of electronic equipment, specs, or numbers. I simply was stating how I would like the UPS to perform. Maybe reading comprehension isn't one of your strong skills, like electricity/electronics is not one of mine.

westom 05-24-2012 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogbreath (Post 1408065)
I simply was stating how I would like the UPS to perform.

You asked for, "but super clean, constant power is my aim." That does not exist on any typical UPS. But it does exist when advertising or other subjective claims become knowledge.

A typical UPS provides 'dirty' and temporary power. Electronics does not need 'super clean power'. It might need temporary and 'dirty' power during a blackout. That UPS is defined by a number determined from "relevant numbers" from "computer, a single 30 inch Cinema Display monitor and two ADAM AX5 speakers (monitors in studio jargon) at 50W each." Relevant numbers are VA, watts or amps located on a label near to where its power cord attaches.

After all, does your bank send you a statement saying your account has 'enough' money? Of course not. They provide numbers to the penny. Anything honest in life has numbers. Provide those "relevant numbers" from each label to then be provided numbers relevant for a UPS selection.

Dogbreath 05-24-2012 01:55 PM

Westom...Thanks for understanding and clarification.

westom 05-24-2012 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogbreath (Post 1408135)
Westom...Thanks for understanding and clarification.

So what were the watts, VA, or amps for each unit? So that a UPS parameter can be recommended.

Dogbreath 05-27-2012 05:04 PM

westom...I finally found the time to get what requirements I could. The ADAM speakers need 120v, 60Hz, 130 watts EACH (I have a pair). The printer has +32 volts, 2000mA printed on it. The WD external hdd, Mac mini and 30"Apple Cinema Display didn't have any power listings on them. This is all the equipment I will have going into the UPS. Thank you for checking this out for me. As you have figured out, I am not very electronically savvy.

westom 05-27-2012 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogbreath (Post 1408831)
The ADAM speakers need 120v, 60Hz, 130 watts EACH (I have a pair). The printer has +32 volts, 2000mA printed on it. The WD external hdd, Mac mini and 30"Apple Cinema Display didn't have any power listings on them.

Printer has a relevant number where the power cord connects. That would be its power supply (or power brick). It is probably rated at 70 watts. The Mac would also have specifications elsewhere such as on paper specs. Typically about 200 watts. Maybe the display is another 40 watts. Adding these numbers, 260 + 70 + 200 + 40 means the UPS must provide a maximum 570 watts.

A UPS is typically made as cheap as possible. Batteries degrade typically in three years. Therefore we probably want 800 watts for that and other reasons. Then as its battery is seriously degraded, it can still provide sufficient power three years later.

Usually most do not power the printer on a UPS since the UPS does not need the temporary and dirty power during a blackout.

Your system will not consume 570 watts. That is just a worse case number to guarantee human safety requirements.

Dogbreath 05-28-2012 06:45 PM

Thanks westom...I'll go for one at 800 watts. Again, thanks for the help.


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