01-13-2010, 05:29 AM

It's second time I need to make Boot Camp partition. First time I encountered that famous fragmentation error. I deleted Parallels image and all huge files. It worked.

Then I needed to expand partition from 20 to 30 GB (I have 70 GB of free space). Removed it and tried again. Got the same error. Here's what I've tried so far:
1. Deleted files bigger than 500 MB.

2. Copied huge folders to new location and deleted originals, thus moving these copies to the end of hard drive.

3. Did quick iDefrag (don't have external HD and don't plan on buying it).

4. Checked the disk and file permissions. Fixed. Files that refused to be fixed were deleted.

5. Booted from OS X CD and tried to shrink my only partition with Disk Utility (the trick is to shrink the partition by the amount you need for BC in several steps, then expand it again and you should have enough blank free space). First 5 GB went well. After then even if I tried to resize partition by 0.5 GB it wouldn't let me saying that my chosen amount is too big.

Now don't tell me "simply to buy 1TB external HD" and use CCC or Time Machine. It's funny when "finely tuned most advanced operating system" wouldn't let me do things that are worth 10 min work with PartitionMagic in windows (I love my MacBook anyway).

So it means that I have to say goodbye to Boot Camp just because I'm "too late"?

01-13-2010, 07:57 AM

I agree. You should be able to defragment and consolidate your files on any desktop OS.

Sadly, unless others can suggest a reliable app, I couldn't find anything to do that successfully. iDefrag didn't seem to do much. Tech Tools Deluxe stopped OSX booting completely.

Time Machine backup to the rescue and now the bootcamp assistant is happy to create a partition.

So, as you may have gathered, I can only recommend the backup/restore technique that you wish to avoid.

01-13-2010, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by spindoctor

It's funny when "finely tuned most advanced operating system" wouldn't let me do things that are worth 10 min work with PartitionMagic in windows (I love my MacBook anyway).

So it means that I have to say goodbye to Boot Camp just because I'm "too late"?

But wait a minute! You're trying to install something on a Mac that will let you run Windows on it. You can't run the Mac OS on a Dell...(legally)

01-13-2010, 09:41 AM

lifeisabeach disagrees. I'd say he's a better technician at some of this than I am. He says iDefrag will do it. Just not while you're up and running in OS X. You need to create the iDefrag boot disc and boot to that to get it to do what you're looking for. Although from what he says about the length of time it takes, the bootable clone with SD! or CCC would be a whole lot faster.

Read the posts by lifeisabeach in particular in this thread.

And if you don't have a backup, one of your next posts may well be; "Help!! My hard drive died. How do I get back all of my music (movies, data, etc.)?".

01-13-2010, 12:30 PM

Bob is right. I thoroughly disagree. In fact, I think I'll work on getting some screen shots of one of my drives before and after defragging to illustrate it. Hmm... I kinda wish there was a fragging program to spread everything out even more thoroughly beforehand.

01-13-2010, 02:32 PM

lifeisabeach:

In fact, I think I'll work on getting some screen shots of one of my drives before and after defragging to illustrate it.

I wish you would. My reasoning is with you on this because.....

For a long time our friends at Microsoft told us that NTFS does not fragment and there was no compelling need to worry about it. Well, as you know we found out that it wasn't true since in some ways NTFS fragments worse than FAT.

I've worked with Unix for years (Government and hobby) and have never really thought much about fragmentation. But since I've been more closely involved with Mac OS X, I have seen instances where the file system has become fragmented over time. But it's not so much a case of small fragments spread out all over the drive (like FAT) but more of the inability of the OS to move files forward to give contiguous space where needed.

Kind of like to get your educated opinion on this.

Regards.

01-13-2010, 02:54 PM

I will note, that when I checked my fragmentation this last time - the worst file fragmentation was less than 0.5% - however, it did show free space fragmentation at 23%. I do move a fair amount of music, audio book and movie files around on my systems. Have not noticed a system slow down due to this as of yet, so still not concerned for my uses.

01-13-2010, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by chscag

lifeisabeach:



I wish you would. My reasoning is with you on this because.....

For a long time our friends at Microsoft told us that NTFS does not fragment and there was no compelling need to worry about it. Well, as you know we found out that it wasn't true since in some ways NTFS fragments worse than FAT.

I've worked with Unix for years (Government and hobby) and have never really thought much about fragmentation. But since I've been more closely involved with Mac OS X, I have seen instances where the file system has become fragmented over time. But it's not so much a case of small fragments spread out all over the drive (like FAT) but more of the inability of the OS to move files forward to give contiguous space where needed.

Kind of like to get your educated opinion on this.

Regards.

I'm by no means an expert on any of this... what I do know is that I have had real performance gains in a couple situations (see my comments in the thread that bobtomay linked to). The particular issue at hand is the perception that the defrag utilities for OS X can't compact the data to accomodate disk partitioning. They can, they just can't operate to that extent on the same volume you are booted from thanks to security measures in OS X. Actually, I suppose you could do it if logged in as root. In any event, the iDefrag guys are working on a major upgrade that apparently will let you do the full compact/defrag on the same volume you are booted from. It sounds like it'll be the same way the built-in defragger in Windows works... it reboots and runs the defragger before getting into the GUI.

I checked my MacBook Pro earlier, and the data is pretty widely spread across the drive, though the actual level of fragmentation is very low (.01% or so). So I'll use that to do before/after demos. I've had it for over a year now... it gets relatively light use and has never been defragged (never felt the need, still don't). It'll be at least a week or so before I can put the time into it though since I plan to do some measurements to see if there is a measureable speed boost for kicks. I don't really expect to see a noticable performance boost with the fragmentation level so low though. Now that drive on my desktop that was 65% fragged.... *whew*

BTW... any thoughts on how to best judge performance before/after?

01-17-2010, 11:54 AM

At first I said I don't want to buy a HDD just to defrag the drive, but it just happened that I found very good local deal for Lacie Grand 1TB.
I'd then format it with 3 partitions - one for storage, one for BC and one for TM. And would TM be able to backup both original OS X partition and new one on external HDD?

01-17-2010, 03:07 PM

I think Time Machine will back up both OS partitions that way but there is a potential problem. Under this situation a failure of the external drive might take out both of your OS backups.

01-17-2010, 03:31 PM

If you're talking about running Windows from the external drive - not gonna happen.



edit: at least not without work and hacking

01-18-2010, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by spindoctor

At first I said I don't want to buy a HDD just to defrag the drive, but it just happened that I found very good local deal for Lacie Grand 1TB.
I'd then format it with 3 partitions - one for storage, one for BC and one for TM. And would TM be able to backup both original OS X partition and new one on external HDD?

You don't have to get a new drive to defrag the other. If you register iDefrag, they provide a tool to make a bootable CD that you add iDefrag to. Just boot from the CD and run it from there. If you have a USB thumb drive that's 8GB or bigger, then install OS X to that along with whatever tools you need to run off it. Also... if enough contiguous space permits... make a new small partition on your existing drive and install OS X to that and boot from it. Once the old partition is defragged, delete that new partition and merge it back to the old. And finally... if you happen to have another Mac, use the firewire target disk mode.

01-19-2010, 06:53 AM

Thanks for all the info.
But what about BC on external HDD? There are threads out there with people successfully doing it.

01-19-2010, 07:12 AM

Yep, and they're taking the time to do all the hacking of the Windows CD that is required. You also must remove your internal drive in order to do it.

By the time you've done all of that, you could have defragged your internal drive or made a clone with CCC or SD! and recloned back to your internal 2 or 3 times.

01-27-2010, 07:56 AM

Ok, so I have the HDD. What now?