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  1. #1

    Doug b's Avatar
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    Uninstall (apps) methods and the trouble which ensues...
    To preface this whole thing, I have a Mac Book Pro (prior to the aluminum) with 2 gigs of RAM. It's the least expensive of the MBP's.

    I know that to uninstall a program, you simply toss its app into the trash, that's easy enough. However, there are two methods (well, more if you consider the third party apps which supposedly locate all the files you need to trash which are associated with said apps/programs) within OS X which allow you to delete the items in the trash bin. The first being a simple right click, and choosing "empty trash". That has always (for me) just gotten rid of whatever was residing in there, as if it were only one item.

    On the other hand, there's also the "empty securely" method, which takes a lot longer, and obviously so, because it gets rid of more than the former method. So my next logical question is:

    If I just "empty trash", are there still tens of thousands of files (which were associated with the app I trashed) still sitting randomly on my hard drive ? And if so, why would the trash behave like this (aside from the programmers wanting it to.. but why would they, is my question.) ?

    My problem with this is that of course I want to just rid my HD of any rogue files which are taking up space, but as I type this, OS X is totally deleting (the latter method) 40,000 files which were associated with iWork, and in the process, slowing down everything else in general. Beach balls when wanting to scroll, open a new window etc.. Not for long, granted, but it's enough to be annoying considering how much cash I spent for such a supposed "work horse". I know this isn't Linux (don't use Windows anymore, haven't for 3 years), but I have never experienced this type of behavior due to deleting anything before.

    I was also under the impression that a certain amount of RAM was allocated for specific tasks, and stays with that task so that if anything went wrong with said task, and it crashed, it wouldn't affect anything else. So why should 2 gigs of RAM not be enough for simply deleting a whole lot of stuff, plus doing basic web surfing and such ?

    Lastly, OS X deletes everything in a very sloth-like manner. Why is it so SLOW ? It shouldn't matter how many objects it has to delete, only that it does it efficiently. Both Windows and Linux OS's in my experience delete mass amounts of data blindingly faster than OS X does, and that also annoys me. Is there a good reason for this ?

  2. #2

    lifeafter2am's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug b View Post
    Lastly, OS X deletes everything in a very sloth-like manner. Why is it so SLOW ? It shouldn't matter how many objects it has to delete, only that it does it efficiently. Both Windows and Linux OS's in my experience delete mass amounts of data blindingly faster than OS X does, and that also annoys me. Is there a good reason for this ?
    I can at least answer for Linux. Although this HIGHLY depends on the file system you are using (Ext2/3, ReiserFS, XFS, etc) mostly the file systems in Linux cache all the writes, which means that you are not watching REAL TIME deleting of files, only the cached representation of them. This means that while you are going about your other business the filesystem is still deleting files.
    masakatsu agatsu

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  3. #3

    Doug b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lifeafter2am View Post
    I can at least answer for Linux. Although this HIGHLY depends on the file system you are using (Ext2/3, ReiserFS, XFS, etc) mostly the file systems in Linux cache all the writes, which means that you are not watching REAL TIME deleting of files, only the cached representation of them. This means that while you are going about your other business the filesystem is still deleting files.

    That's cool, I guess... Didn't know that. Doesn't change the fact though, that while I'm still "going about my business", (in nix) I don't feel the sting of what's going on in the background, deletion wise, as opposed to seeing and feeling the slowing up of processes in OS X while it's doing its thing in real time. I'd say that the former method is a lot more efficient. I guess this is also why you're able to delete items at different times (at the same time) on both Win and Linux, but not with OS X.

    Doug

  4. #4

    harryb2448's Avatar
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    1. Use uninstaller provided with software CD.

    2. Use utility such as AppTrap, AppDelete etc to do the job as simply dragging to trash does not clean up extensions, preferences etc.

  5. #5

    rman's Avatar
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    Cool
    Here is the simple explanation. What empty trash does is erase the pointer to where the file is located. Thus making the space available again. Th next writing of a file will write over the file that is residing there.

    The secure empty trash does one more step in that it also write a zero over every sector the file resided on. This is the reason it takes longer in the deleting process.
    Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, It's about learning to dance in the rain!

  6. #6

    Doug b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harryb2448 View Post
    1. Use uninstaller provided with software CD.

    2. Use utility such as AppTrap, AppDelete etc to do the job as simply dragging to trash does not clean up extensions, preferences etc.
    Ok, so then where do things such as extensions and preferences reside (as junk) after deleting ? I'd imagine that after time, these things build up a lot, and start to waste space, and eventually make the computer sluggish ? It probably (in the process) fragments data on the HD, as well. As far as using uninstallers from a CD, not every piece of software comes with an uninstaller, especially if you're simply downloading the dmg from the net.

    Quote Originally Posted by rman View Post
    Here is the simple explanation. What empty trash does is erase the pointer to where the file is located. Thus making the space available again. Th next writing of a file will write over the file that is residing there.

    The secure empty trash does one more step in that it also write a zero over every sector the file resided on. This is the reason it takes longer in the deleting process.
    Ah, thanks. That's a good explanation ! And it also confirms the fact that even if you over wright the previous app with a new one, it won't over wright every single 0 and 1, so there WILL be fragmented data strewn about. And I'm also assuming that the securely emptying the trash bit, actually does get rid of it all.

    I'm sure I've deleted a bunch of stuff since I've had my MBP, and now am wondering if there's a way to go about finding extraneous files, which are no longer in use, that I can clean up ?

  7. #7

    lifeafter2am's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug b View Post
    Ok, so then where do things such as extensions and preferences reside (as junk) after deleting ? I'd imagine that after time, these things build up a lot, and start to waste space, and eventually make the computer sluggish ? It probably (in the process) fragments data on the HD, as well. As far as using uninstallers from a CD, not every piece of software comes with an uninstaller, especially if you're simply downloading the dmg from the net.



    Ah, thanks. That's a good explanation ! And it also confirms the fact that even if you over wright the previous app with a new one, it won't over wright every single 0 and 1, so there WILL be fragmented data strewn about. And I'm also assuming that the securely emptying the trash bit, actually does get rid of it all.

    I'm sure I've deleted a bunch of stuff since I've had my MBP, and now am wondering if there's a way to go about finding extraneous files, which are no longer in use, that I can clean up ?
    You talk a lot about fragmenting data, but you came from Linux right? You do know that HFS is a journaling filesystem, just like XFS, EXT2, EXT3, ReiserFS and so on. Journaling filesystems don't fragment quite as bad as non-journaled systems; hence why you don't see an abundance of defrag tools made for these systems:

    In addition to meeting some or all of the requirements listed above, each of these alternative file systems also supports journaling, a feature certainly demanded by enterprises, but beneficial to anyone running Linux. A journaling file system can simplify restarts, reduce fragmentation, and accelerate I/O.
    Here's a little "light" reading for you.

    Journaling File Systems and How They Work

    I have a few more advanced links if you want them. This one was the least technical, as I don't know how technical you are.
    masakatsu agatsu

    @lifeafter2am

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