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OS X - Operating System General OS operation information and support

OS 10.4 - LOSING MY MIND - OSX 10.4 - Hard Drive crashes when Downloading Updates


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jaekriel

 
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Ok -

I am so frustrated right now, I feel like pulling out my hair - I sooo hope someone can help me

The long and the short of it is - I just bought a G4 Dual 450 with 1.25 ram from an ebay seller with over a thousand positve feedback

It came with 10.4 installed, but I wanted a clean format and install

So all I had was 10.3.

I installed that, but when it came to the OSX Software updates , the system crashed completly.

Had to manually re-start, and then nothing would ever come up - only a blank blue desktop.

So I got a hold of 10.4 and installed that.

Once again , when trying to install the OSX updates, they would download, with no problem, but when the updates would begin to "expand and install" it would freeze up - and then the slow fade scroll down gray block thingy - with the "You need to re-start your computer" jazz would come up.

At first I thought this was an issue with the hard drive.

But I swapped out that drive with a brand new one, format-install - but again when I came to the updates - same problem.


The confusing thing is - I have no idea what is causing this.

I downloaded a program called TechTool Pro which according to the review about it was supposed to be as "probably the most comprehensive hardware testing and diagnostic tool outside of the tools Apple ships to authorized repair centers...."

....of course I have no idea how true that is....

Anyway - I ran that program and ran all the diagnostic tests -

No problem with any hardware at all - the busses, the cpu, the memory- every test cam back as passed.

But after my hard drive(s) would crash - the test would come up as having a damaged "Volume"

But if I format and install the OSX and then do a test - it comes up as "Passed" in all areas- including hard dirves

But over and over again, if I download the OSX Updates - same thing.

Crash, re-boot - bad volume - have to reformat again and re-install OSX



This makes absloutly no sense to me.

I am pretty well versed in Windows, but fairly new to Macs.

But this is an issue that I am not familair with regardless of platform or operating system - , and for the life of me - I can't figure out.

Again - normally I would say - bad hard drive.

But this happens when I install updates - directly form APPLE, and I have tried this with THREE separate hard drives....and I get the same result every single time.

I have done this like seven times now.



Can anyone help me? Please?


Obvisouly I can send back the Mac to the guy I bought it from, but if this is something simple, and there actually is nothing WRONG with the MAC - I would keep it.

And if he runs the same tests I did - it will either come up as nothing wrong or at best - the OS will crash and it will point to a bad hard drive - which is obvisouly not it.

I cannnot figure this one out.

I makes no sense to me at all.

But as I am new to macs - I thought I would ask the experts and the verterans.

If anyone is familair with this - or knows what I am doing wrong or whatever - please let me know - I am at the edge of insanity over this **** thing.

Thanks in advance -

Jaek
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Soulwar

 
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Try downloading the combo update, from the Apple site, to the desktop. Reboot in Safe mode. (Hold "shift" till it says safe mode) Then try installing the update. If it makes it, restart normally.

When all else fails, try everything!
The Rep System and you.
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dtravis7

 
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How large is the hard drive? Something is causing corruption when in the OS and it's trying to write the updates to the drive.
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jaekriel

 
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Try downloading the combo update, from the Apple site, to the desktop. Reboot in Safe mode. (Hold "shift" till it says safe mode) Then try installing the update. If it makes it, restart normally.



Well learning how to re-boot or boot into safe mode is certainly something I did not know how to do so I can try that - but -

When I download the updates they immediatly start to unpack/expand/install after the actual download is finished - so Im not sure how to stop that part of the process -

Is there something specific I need to do?

Thx

Jaek
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jaekriel

 
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How large is the hard drive?

Well, the drive that came with the unit was/is 80gb.

I also tried one that was 30gb, and one that was 180gb (although being as that I dont have an Ultra IDE card , the OS only sees 128gb.

Point is - it happens on all three - I dont think the size of the drive is the issue - lest I am missing something here -


Something is causing corruption when in the OS and it's trying to write the updates to the drive.


Right! That much I know - what I dont know is why/how ...

Thx

Jaek
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dtravis7

 
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Reason I asked about the size is as you seem to know, there is a 128GB limit on the older Macs and I just wanted to be sure it was not a format issue causing corruption. Seen so much in my long history of repairing PC's.

Rarely ever run into things like this on more modern Macs.
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Soulwar

 
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You can manually download the update here. Nothing should install without you giving it permission to.
http://www.apple.com/support/downloa...updateppc.html

Also, this link is for the Apple Hardware test. You can download it and burn a cd. It may be a hardware problem. (Besides the HDD)
http://www.info.apple.com/support/aht.html

When all else fails, try everything!
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jaekriel

 
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Cool deal - I'll try that and reply back with results

Thx

Jaek
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When you use Software Update, in the Menu Bar Items there is an option to 'Download Only'. Do that, run Repair Permissions, disconnet everything other than keyboard and mouse from computer, go to 'Packages' and drag the download to the desktop.

Double click and install. When finished run Repair Permissions again and hook everything back up. Let's know how you are going?
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jaekriel

 
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Ok...so I did what was suggested.

I downloaded both the Mac Hardware Test CD/DMG file and the link to the 10.4.11 Update bundle

I downloaded them to a folder on my PC and shared the folder.

Formatted the NEW harddrive, installed 10.4.

From the shared folder on my workgroup, I dragged both the Hardware test and Update Bundles to the Apple Desktop

With Disk Utility, I burned both images

Ran the hardware test, according to the instructions - it did nothing

Meaning - couldnt get it to do anything - it simply "blinked" the Question Mark / Folder Icon at me.

I re-booted, opened the Update package - and Voila. It installed.

Big time WHEW

So, I used TechTool one more time, did a thoughough diagnostic - found nothing wrong

Aparantly - the HD it shipped with was bad, although I still dont know why Installing updates via the internet gives me grief

(other updates also stalled, and froze up the system, subsequently -)

but...as long as it gets done eventually, even after a few frustrating re-boots and many hours..

.whatever....it works...Im happy - for the most part.



BUT ..wait - there's more.

So - having downloaded MANY Apple Diagnostic tools in the hopes of finding out my problem over the last few days, and having them all in one folder that was once in the shared windows folder and now on my Apple desktop - I want to keep them for the future - right?

I install Toast - put them all into one DVD burn session.

The burn goes down fine, I try to "Verify" and it locks up - and once again I get the Gray Scroll down - "You must Restart"

Beginning to panic, I re-boot, but my system comes up fine.

Ok...fine.

So I burn all the individual apps onto CD instead of DVD

No problem.

I try one more time, to see if burning DVDs is going to be a problem, and if so...why.


I put all the apps into a Toast DVD session ....one more time.



During the Burn, once again - I get the Grey Screen of Disgust.



But - this time- my system wont boot up at all anymore.

All I get is the Blank Blue Apple Screen.

Nothing else

I look up the "step-by-step" about booting into Safe Mode from the Apple Webby -

Nothing.

It hangs forevever in the Grey Wheel scroll.

Then - eventually - the Blue Screen of nothingness.

(To boot into Safe Mode - I held down the Shift Key after the initial power up until I see the Grey Apple screen - no safe mode.)
I try again - holding down till I see the Grey Gear wheel

Nothing....

My system wont boot - either safe - or normal

And thats where I am currently at.



Any ideas?

Jaek
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Soulwar

 
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From what you are describing, it sounds like a bad logic board or video card.
Both could cause the problems you are having. You may want to contact the person you purchased it from. I would find it hard to believe these problems didn't exist before you bought it.

This will explain the AHT and how to use it.
http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/aht.html

For kernel panics.
http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/kernelpanics.html

Some things to read and try.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106464
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75459

When all else fails, try everything!
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jaekriel

 
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Sigh Sigh Sigh.

I give up.



Well now its worse actually.....

Now, after trying a couple more times to get into "safe mode", now when trying to boot - all I get is the grey screen - with the Blinking Folder and Mac face....so it wont boot at all.




As much as I certainly do apprecieate the assistance and help from everyone who responded to my (*admmittendly) long winded post(s)...

...and as much as I dont want to be hated by Mac lovers everywhere....

I just want to say....as someone who has worked on Microsoft systems for over ten years...


...that I will no longer sit though one of those "cute" Cool Mac geek guy versus the Square Windows-Guy-In-a-Suit commercials without a severe frown form on my face


Nor will I ever again suffer the rants from a Mac owner who tried to smugly sneer in my direction and inform me of how much "better" Macs are than PCs......

For a machine that is "supposed" to be so much easier to use....and is certainly "cooler looking", it is also much more expensive.

And if it IS the "Logic Board", well....I have never had a "Mother Board" go out on me......ever....and I have built/owned PCs since '95.....you know - that OS that was supposed to be a rip off of Mac '84?



(and I wont mention how many times I have heard "Macs never crash"....Hmmph....)

Very disapointed.....

Anyone know of a good Mac OSX emulator out there?

The only reason I bought this WONDERFUL AND FANTASTIC thing is to run Final Cut Pro for crying out loud !!

Guess I am back to Adobe Premiere .....FOR WINDOWS


But seriously - thanks for trying to help.



Jaek


(AKA - One who would have "switched"....no chance of that happening now - to be sure.)

Thanks Steve.
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Chilbear

 
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Is there a possibility that the processor is an upgrade to the original machine - meaning that on erase and install, the driver for the new processor/daughter board is in conflict?
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jaekriel

 
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Is there a possibility that the processor is an upgrade to the original machine - meaning that on erase and install, the driver for the new processor/daughter board is in conflict?


Well....I have no idea - but I doubt it.

Isnt the Mac Dual 450ghz a standard configuration?

And if it was, how would I know?

How could I check?

And if so- what would I do?

Im sorry but your question does not help me.

Right now, my system wont boot at all.

If it was caused because of a DVD burn....I dont know HOW that relates to the Logic Board.....much less the Video card.

If it is the Logic Board that is "faluty" ..well yeah, then anything could happen I suppose, but I dont know how I am supposed ot check that ....even if I re-format an re-install the OS -

I ran diagnostics on the system using TechTool (as stated before) and all the tests on hardware passed.....except the harddrive - which I replaced.....

But how would I know? and what would I do?

If I have to replace the logic board - I may as well send back the unit - since I would have to take that to a Apple Store anyway...and I am sure they will charge me an arm...and maybe half a leg

Jaek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaekriel View Post
I just bought a G4 Dual 450 with 1.25 ram from an ebay seller with over a thousand positve feedback....

For a machine that is "supposed" to be so much easier to use....and is certainly "cooler looking", it is also much more expensive.
Well, to be fair the machine you purchased is 8 years old. It would not have been able to handle any modern version of Final Cut anyway.
Also, just because someone has a grand eBay feedback score, doesn't mean they know heads or tails about Macs. I see Macs on eBay all the time that are from sellers with extraordinary feedback, but they all say something to the effect, "I have no idea how to use Macs" or "I haven't been able to test this, due to my lack of Apple knowledge". The machine could very well have been faulty at the time of sale. It wouldn't matter to the seller. They would sell it anyway. Plus, most of those sellers are Windows users who still buy into the myth that Macs cost sooooo much more, so they jack the price up to astronomical levels.
How expensive was it? You bought a fairly dated machine on eBay. It should not have cost any more than one or two hundred bucks. Otherwise, you got shafted.
Quote:
I just want to say....as someone who has worked on Microsoft systems for over ten years...
And if it IS the "Logic Board", well....I have never had a "Mother Board" go out on me......ever....and I have built/owned PCs since '95.....you know - that OS that was supposed to be a rip off of Mac '84?
You have admitted yourself that you have extensive experience with Windows... but that means nothing in the Mac world.

The comment trying to connect hardware faults to stability or integrity of an OS is not very well grounded either. I have been using Macs for 22 years and Windows for about 15 years. I have built plenty of Windows boxes and I have had mobos go bad on me. I've had iMacs with bad logic boards. It happens.

Again, that Mac is a machine that was released in early/mid 2000. I would wager that a person buying a Windows machine from that era, configured as it would have been at the time of its release would be a bit disappointed as well. Especially when they find that it can't run modern day apps or updates at the same speed as a brand-new machine. I would certainly have a sour view of Windows using a machine like that if I had never used the OS before.
Quote:
(and I wont mention how many times I have heard "Macs never crash"....Hmmph....)

Very disapointed.....
Whoever told you that is obviously mistaken and/or seriously delusional. ALL computers crash, regardless of what OS they run. Believing hype and marketing from commercials and taking it at face value is something that should never be done.

Now.. all is not lost for your machine. It can be made to run. All you need to do is want it to. If you don't, then forget about it and don't worry.

If you do, then you need to throw your 10 years of Windows experiences... well, out the window.
It won't help you here and continually trying to compare what you are faced with now to something that happened while you were using Windows and building PC's won't make it any easier.

One thing that is common with older machines is problems with RAM. I have a machine even older than yours (B&W G3 400) that ran into problems when I attempted to install 10.4 on it. It kept telling me that there was a HD issue. I had tried no less than 5 different drives in it, all failing.
I finally decided to swap out the RAM and .... poof.... suddenly it worked. The machine is still running and is currently installing the latest Security Update with no problems.

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