12-07-2008, 02:29 AM

I bet this is a really silly question for anyone to be asking? Infact I know it is...
I wanna know which language is preferred by the Mac Development Community in general.

12-07-2008, 05:09 AM

None of the above.

Objective C is.

12-07-2008, 05:33 AM

I use Java..but only because I only know that and VB.net lol

12-07-2008, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by Aptmunich

None of the above.

Objective C is.

Ok... someone needs to clarify with me about C and its variants.

I know that C++ is a higher level variant of C which supports things that C does not... i.e, object orientated programming.

what exactly is Objective C? And when compared with a program written in C how is the execution speed?

12-07-2008, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by knightjp

Ok... someone needs to clarify with me about C and its variants.

I know that C++ is a higher level variant of C which supports things that C does not... i.e, object orientated programming.

what exactly is Objective C? And when compared with a program written in C how is the execution speed?

Objective-C is like C++ in that it takes the C language and adds object-oriented (OOP) features to it. However, it is very different from C++ in its implementation of those features (evidently it is closer to Smalltalk, although I'm unfamiliar with the latter). The biggest differences are that Objective-C is a relatively lightweight extension of C when compared to C++, and that Objective-C evaluates messages sent to receivers (approximately an analog to calling a method on a C++ object) at runtime, rather than making those connections at compile time.

Objective-C is the preferred language to program Cocoa applications in if you want good performance and are not building a cross-platform app. If you go through Apple's documentation on Cocoa, you'll see that the primary language discussed is Objective-C. Also, you cannot access the Cocoa frameworks directly from either C or C++ ... you would have to use some sort of a wrapper (which would undoubtedly be written using Objective-C).

I haven't done any timing, but I'd guess that for standard C constructs, the execution time of Obj-C code is essentially identical to C (and hence somewhat faster than C++). When using the Obj-C extensions, obviously it is going to be a bit slower than straight C code (just as C++ is), but you're getting the benefits of OOP in exchange.

12-08-2008, 05:12 AM

Originally Posted by mystic_fm

I haven't done any timing, but I'd guess that for standard C constructs, the execution time of Obj-C code is essentially identical to C (and hence somewhat faster than C++). When using the Obj-C extensions, obviously it is going to be a bit slower than straight C code (just as C++ is), but you're getting the benefits of OOP in exchange.

If its similar to C++, how fast is Objective C compared with? Or does that depend on the programmer??

12-08-2008, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by knightjp

If its similar to C++, how fast is Objective C compared with? Or does that depend on the programmer??

Like I said, I haven't benchmarked them. For basic function calls and such I'd expect Obj-C to be a bit faster, but beyond that it would likely depend upon the specific types of operations being performed. Certainly C++ can perform almost as well as C or far worse than C, depending upon what you are asking of it. And it ALWAYS depends upon the programmer.

However, any decision between C++ and Obj-C should not be predicated upon performance, because there are more important factors to be considered. If you want to write Cocoa applications for the Mac, then Objective-C is the right choice, there's no question about that.

12-11-2008, 02:21 AM

I've searched for resources online for Objective C like tutorials and stuff. But the only results I get are always assuming I have knowledge about C, which I don't. I looked for a forum, couldn't find a dedicated one like there is for C/C++.

I went Amazon and looked for books. So far, I like two books by Stephen G. Kochan "Programming in Objective-C" & "Programming in Objective-C 2.0 (second edition)".
Does anyone know which of the two I should go for??

12-11-2008, 03:14 AM

Originally Posted by knightjp

I've searched for resources online for Objective C like tutorials and stuff. But the only results I get are always assuming I have knowledge about C, which I don't. I looked for a forum...

Learn C for Cocoa

That site also has some other good introductions. They may be a bit dated as far as which version of XCode they are using, since Apple has made some changes to it and IB (Interface Builder).

The most suggested book is Cocoa Programming for Mac OS X.

You can get a free Apple Developer account and get access to more tutorials and information that way.

If you haven't programmed before, then I suggest you start with a scripting language. This has been discussed here several times.

12-11-2008, 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by xstep

Learn C for Cocoa

That site also has some other good introductions. They may be a bit dated as far as which version of XCode they are using, since Apple has made some changes to it and IB (Interface Builder).

The most suggested book is Cocoa Programming for Mac OS X.

You can get a free Apple Developer account and get access to more tutorials and information that way.

If you haven't programmed before, then I suggest you start with a scripting language. This has been discussed here several times.

Thanks for the links. I've been to these links before and yes they are helpful, only of you are a person who used C before. Even the book you mentioned assumes that you are familiar with C/C++.
Objective-C would be my first programming language. I apologise for not mentioning that earlier....

Thats the reason I chose the books I mentioned earlier.

12-11-2008, 01:10 PM

as always, it depends on what you're doing. There are things for which perl is the way to go, others bash scripting, C, and Objective C.

12-11-2008, 02:08 PM

What I've learned is, that when it comes to programming, the language used always depends on the project at hand. However, there is a underlined fact that some programmers will stick with a particular language no matter they are trying to do.

Now to the topic at hand. It is now confirmed that Obj-C is the official language for Apple development. Since it is, I've chosen it as the language I will learn for programming on my mac.
Now all I need is a good book for a programming beginner to use.

12-11-2008, 03:24 PM

I'll be honest: if this is your first foray into software development, I worry that you might be jumping in a little too close to the deep end of the pool. But if you are dead set on getting to Objective-C as quickly as possible, then I'd at least suggest that you start by just learning C first, as everything you learn there will be directly applicable to Objective-C. Perhaps someone else can recommend a good book on C for a beginner. (I learned C from the pre-ANSI K&R ... i.e., "The C Programming Language" by Brian Kernighan and Dennis Ritchie, 1st ed. ... but it wasn't my first language, and that book wouldn't be a good text to use as an introduction to programming.)

After you've learned C, Apple has a downloadable PDF on Objective-C (for C programmers) that might be helpful for you in making the transition. You'd need an Apple Developer account to get that PDF. After you understand that and some of the basic tenants of object-oriented development, you could try to get started on learning the Cocoa framework with one of the books mentioned earlier in this thread.

12-15-2008, 04:36 AM

Thanks mystic_fm for the suggestions and concerns. In the end I went ahead and pre-ordered this book.

Amazon.com: Programming in Objective-C 2.0 (2nd Edition) (Developer's Library): Stephen G. Kochan: Books

It takes me from being an absolute beginner in programming to a pro in Objective C. The book is a updated version to include Obj -C 2.0 and includes a tutorial on developing iphone apps. I think thats a pretty good deal.

12-15-2008, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by knightjp

Thanks mystic_fm for the suggestions and concerns. In the end I went ahead and pre-ordered this book.

Amazon.com: Programming in Objective-C 2.0 (2nd Edition) (Developer's Library): Stephen G. Kochan: Books

That does look like it has the potential to be a very good book to get you up and running to the point where you could move onto Hillegass's Cocoa Programming for Mac OS X. Good luck!