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Movies and Video For people making movies and editing video with their Mac.

Which HD cam exports into FCS and Renders


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kevin1961

 
Member Since: Mar 27, 2010
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Hi. I have posted various posts on this site but as yet had no luck in anyone helping, so feel as though I'm wasting my time a bit but here goes. I have Final cut Studio 2 "Bought Version" and am looking for a throw about camera for about 500 euros. I had a Sony HVR-Z1E until it was stolen from the car and can't afford to buy a new one until this crisis ends. The Sony HVR-Z1E worked with FCS perfectly. I looking for a camera which will import direct or via upload files into FCS and render without having to use third party converters. Can anyone give advice on HD video cameras that they have actually used with good end results. I hear that the canon HF200 imports well but only takes photos at 3.3 mega pixels where as for example the sanyo xacti HD 200 takes very nice HD video in various speeds and takes very nice shots BUT although it records in Mpeg4 and H.264 it needs to be converted before importing into FCS and then can't be rendered. In Spain there is NO help in any way with FCS as not many people know about it or use it, they are all windows fans so PLEASE if anyone can give me a hand I would be very grateful
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Nethfel

 
Member Since: Feb 25, 2009
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You know, I've gone back over all of your threads and your posts, and many people have helped you, including me, but you seem to want to ignore it - including suggestions on converting the footage on the Toshiba you had (you never came back with your results after suggestions on converting it into an mp4 and importing that into your software). Your question about drivers - several people gave you suggestions, including links on Bootcamp software (which is where the drivers for windows in Bootcamp are obtained), and except for an audio issue you had, people did help you - and if you updated bootcamp, it may have solved your driver issue - I honestly don't know. Many people have helped, I don't quite see why you are claiming to have "no luck in anyone helping".

In terms of a camera - from the previous thread of problems with your Toshiba, I suggested when looking to get a different camera to check the compatibility lists for FCS to narrow down your camera search. In terms of this Sanyo you've listed, unless ability to take a high resolution snapshot is some sort of requirement for your camcorder, honestly, it'd be the last of my concerns (although many camcorders can take stills, it's not their primary design, and it isn't what they are necessarily best at).

Aside from wanting it to "work well" with FCS you have supplied us with NO information to even BEGIN to help you find a camera short a max budget. You need to provide things like -
what resolutions do you need?
Do you need progressive?
Do you prefer tape or hard drive or solid state storage?
Do you need a mic input jack?
Do you need a headphones jack?
Do you have a desired size/weight?
Do you need an accessory shoe?
What kinds of subject matter are you shooting / What do you need the camera for?

There are a ton of cameras out there, and finding what is just right for you isn't as easy as saying "hey, what decent camera that works with FCP can I get for 500EU or less?" "decent" is a very subjective word. What's decent to me may suck for someone else, and what's decent to me may be way overkill for someone else. More quality information will be needed for anyone to give you a quality answer on this current question of yours.

My Macs: Late 2013 rMBP w/ 750m; Mac mini G4, 1.25 GHz, 512m ram (server); Late 2011 11" MBA, 1.8GHz i7, 4Gig Ram, 256Gig SSD, HD3000; Powerbook 12" G4 1.33GHz running Debian as a server; Apple TV (1080p version)
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kevin1961

 
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Hi Nethfel. Firstly let me start off by apologizing to yourself and other members who "Did" help me out with the Toshiba camera I had, I posted to another Forum dedicated to Mac's as well as this one and it seems I got things mixed up. It was this one that helped out and the other one did not get any response at all, so my most sincere apologies to all for the cock up I made. having now tried to get the egg off my face! I will continue and see if I am forgiven. What I am about to write will probably bore most people but here goes. I had as you know a Sony HVR-Z1E which was a very nice camera and worked seamlessly with FCS, I did some TV channel work for local "Village" TV channels mostly for adverts such as bar's, restaurants, hotels promoting wedding receptions etc etc, I also did some tutorials in Spanish for the people here as there is no help with FCS in Spain or at least very little, these I posted to youtube. Spain is now in a **** of a mess with the crisis that is affecting the whole world, some are pulling out of it a little and others are still with over 4.5 million unemployed, hence to say everyone is cutting back to the main essentials. Food, electricity and water and all other niceties are put to one side. people now do there own wedding photography with a casio camera and videos are out of the window 100%. Hence to say for the moment I am just looking for "Basic" HD cam with x 20 optical zoom, would be nice to have mic and headphone jacks, SD Card as tape cams are going to be out of my budget at the moment. A nice lens, possible manual focus and a nice crisp HD image. OK, as you say the still's are not that important as I have a Canon G9 "Works perfect with FCS"!! and also a Pentax K20D with 2 very good lenses so the still's are not that important but handy to have in the same hand so to speak. I have seen the Canon HF 200 which as far as I can see imports direct to FCS and also the Sanyo xacti HD 2000 which looking at youtube does give some nice video but has to be turned from Mpeg4 to avi, so we are back as with the Toshiba wasting time converting and loosing quality. The Toshiba I let the kids next door have it as it would not sell even for 50 euros, has a bad name in Spain!. To go over the list you left me. I could do with Progressive but not essential, I prefer SD Card storage as tape is expensive and solid state relies entirely on FCS finding the camera and if it does not then more probs, Weight and size, well it needs to be about the Canon HF 200 size and weight. A problem I had when using the Sony HVR-Z1E was that it had no shoulder mount and freehand holding caused some motion blur and affected my neck something terrible as I have 3 vertebras which are cracked and calcifying which causes pressure on the spinal cord and gives loss of sensation to arms and legs etc, I even tried a steadycam but was still to much for my neck. I should have bought a shoulder mount camera in the beginning!!. The use it will have will be wildlife, short films about local villages, the views, streets, surrounding areas etc, filming products that local manufacturers produce such as cakes, meats, a restaurant with all the tables dressed etc etc in the hope that one day someone will want to pay for local TV ads again, but as I say in a village of 2000 people things are pretty grim. You maybe falling asleep by now hahaha!!!. Well that's about it in a nutshell as we say over here. Again apologies for the mess up I am not of the age to put that sort of thing just for the sake of it, so it was a true mistake on my side. Best regards to yourself and anyone else reading this.
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Nethfel

 
Member Since: Feb 25, 2009
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Ok, well, let me see if I get this all:

You had that wonderful HVR-Z1E which was stolen - and it used DVCam cassettes (wouldn't it be nice if Sony made a smaller cam that took DVCam tapes? I still had a few left over from a DSR200a I used to own - but let's face it, those tapes themselves are kinda big) - so although you probably have quite a few DVCam tapes, you have no MiniDV tapes so you're wanting to avoid the expense of a mini-dv based HD camcorder and can't afford to replace the HVR (understandable, those things aren't cheap)

You want something light
Gets a good image
Has the mic input
Headphones out
SD Card based
Within 500 EU

Ok, in terms of price, you'll probably have to look up the cams and find what the going rate is to see if it's in your budget.

Your biggest contenders (IMHO) are Canon, Sony and Panasonic. I'm not real big on JVC at the consumer level (their high end prosumer and professional are kind of nice tho, but way expensive here, so I'm sure outside of the 500EU there) and although I've heard some interesting things about some other brands, I have little experience with them.

I've heard good things about the Panasonic TM300/HS300 and TM700/HS700 (don't look at the 250 I think is the model number, no mic input) - good color, 3chip camcorders with several manual functions some of which are controllable via the ring at the lens. The biggest negatives are poorer low light performance (the chips are smaller in these cameras, but I've heard the TM700 does decently, but I have never tried one myself), and no native P mode (if that's important to you, like 1080p24). I know the TM700 has an accessory shoe, I think the 300 does as well. The one thing is tho it's kind of in a weird location if you look at the pictures. I haven't really decided if I like where it is or not.

I've used a Canon HF100 and it worked really well with FCS - never had problems importing footage and IQ was good. The biggest pain was using manual functions required using the menu system. Some of the newer HF series has a rotary control that I believe can be set to control some manual functions. The HFS series (current models) are nice, HFS21 might be a bit bulkier then you want tho, not sure. Canons are a bit pricey tho - if you can settle for a slightly older model you should get a good deal. Newer models, although more expensive, do offer a native P mode (1080p24). Some models have dual SD card slots that would allow the camera to record from one card right onto the other to allow longer record times. AFAIK, HF(s)200 and higher level cameras all have mic inputs, headphone jacks, etc. - you can always check specs to be sure, but from what I recall, the mic input was something that was kept in the HF line. They also have an accessory shoe.

I can't speak much on the Sonys, I haven't used a Sony camcorder since my TRV460 (D8 recorder) - I've heard they have really good low light performance, but I'm not a fan of the Memory Stick that is used in most Sonys. Also it seems you need to get a higher level Sony camcorder if you want a mic input - when I was looking at Sony in my short list when I got my HF100, it seemed that I had a real hard time locating one inexpensive that had a mic input (I had purchased my HF100 as a refurb, it had already been retired as a current lineup camcorder).

Hopefully that will at least get you going in the right direction. The price is the one thing I can't help too much about since I really don't know what these things sell for there. You might want to look at refurb or recertified cameras as you might get a great deal (as long as it comes with a warranty ).

My Macs: Late 2013 rMBP w/ 750m; Mac mini G4, 1.25 GHz, 512m ram (server); Late 2011 11" MBA, 1.8GHz i7, 4Gig Ram, 256Gig SSD, HD3000; Powerbook 12" G4 1.33GHz running Debian as a server; Apple TV (1080p version)
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kevin1961

 
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Hi Nethfel. Firstly thanks for all the info, it has certainly given me something to get my choppers into!. The Sony HVR-X1E did use mini DV tapes which as you say I have a stack of them here, some even unused, I did find it easy to edit some clips on the HVR-Z1E but that was a $6.000 camera. I have been looking at the canon HF100 you mentioned and here is a link I found amongst the youtube vids but we all know youtube looses a lot of quality and this is the HF"s" 100 and the vid is in low light which seems to come out very well with no grain or pixeling

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl5BKO8U-7s&feature=related"]

You mentioned yours was the HF 100 without the "s" the HF200 sems to have nice clarity as well looking at this other test video but will this work with FCS? This is what confuses me a bit is the HF and HF "s" I think if the Canon HF 200 integrates with FCS I would go with it, please see vid below

[URL="www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGBbQen5vqk&feature=related"]

I Think the Tosbibas are nice as well but I can't seem to find out if they will work with FCS and may past experience with AVCHD that Toshiba produces seemed to be a complete waste of time using FCS as I can to convert them and converting HD as you know can take forever!!.

I have seen this sanyo xacti HD2000 which also produces very nice clear footage and I would prefer this one but I think it records in Mpeg4 format and I think FCS will accept Mpeg2 format. I can't seem to get any clear details on this record format.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAsNZmLxeWo[/URL

having said that my one concern is that whatever cam I choose it works well directly into Final cut studio 2, seems a shame to have spent out 1,250 euros buying it and having it in the computer but not being able to take full benefit of it.

In Spain you can't by refurbs, why I don't know but it is almost impossible. Anyway I will leave you with a vid I did some time ago now with the HVR-Z1E but on youtube looks a bit mushy. Thanks for all your help and time and I will defiantly look along the lines of the canon HF series if you think it will work with FCS.

part of a promo vi last year!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqacd1eWsKk[/URL
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Nethfel

 
Member Since: Feb 25, 2009
Posts: 2,093
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Quote:
I have seen this sanyo xacti HD2000 which also produces very nice clear footage and I would prefer this one but I think it records in Mpeg4 format and I think FCS will accept Mpeg2 format. I can't seem to get any clear details on this record format.
I haven't had time to fully read your post to respond to all the questions - I'll write more later (about to get ready for work) - but one thing I did stumble upon while searching for info about this Sanyo - and this may or may not affect you (I don't know what standard you use in Spain) so you may want to do extra research - is that it seems to not support native PAL frame rates.

Looking here:
Apple - Support - Discussions - Log & Transfer from Sanyo Xacti ...

unless something has changed in firmware for the camera with regard to how the files are stored since the link above, it would *appear* that you can't just log and transfer footage from the xacti into FCP. But I'd still check a few other sources first to make sure.

My Macs: Late 2013 rMBP w/ 750m; Mac mini G4, 1.25 GHz, 512m ram (server); Late 2011 11" MBA, 1.8GHz i7, 4Gig Ram, 256Gig SSD, HD3000; Powerbook 12" G4 1.33GHz running Debian as a server; Apple TV (1080p version)
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kevin1961

 
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Hi, your probably at work by now, hope you had a good day. You say about the xacti not having native PAL, seems weird. The European models should support pal fully. I will look into it a bit more from this end and see what the full spec is, if sanyo give the full spec. Interesting link though as I have compressor and could batch convert if needed as well as Squared5.

regards

Kevin
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Nethfel

 
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Hi Kevin,

Yeah, it was something I read thru my travels looking into that Sanyo. I can't say if it's accurate or not, or perhaps when the camcorder first came out there was no PAL version but still being sold in PAL regions - I honestly just don't know. From what I understood, the problem arises from the camcorder recording @ 60p, 60i, 30p, 30i - which are not PAL frame rates (PAL would be 50p, 50i, 25p, 25i) - I don't know if there is a PAL specific version of the camcorder or if you might have to do extra work to get a 60p source to 50p for local equipment.

The only negative I could see with the Sanyo is you're still having to go thru an extra step to convert the footage to be handled within FCP (which I kinda thought was something you wanted to avoid after the Toshiba fiasco) - but it does look like a decent cam - has some problems with DR, but I've never seen a consumer/prosumer camcorder that doesn't have some DR issues with over exposure in very bright regions.

In terms of my Canon, yes, it's the HF100, not the HFS100 - mine is an earlier predecessor of the "s" line. The HFS 200 should integrate just fine - what you might want to do - if there is a retailer you can walk into - get an SD card, use one of their cams to record some footage, then bring the card home and use Log and Transfer to import the footage into FCP and see how it works for you.

That really stinks that refurbs aren't an option in Spain - really limits you to just new or used.

My Macs: Late 2013 rMBP w/ 750m; Mac mini G4, 1.25 GHz, 512m ram (server); Late 2011 11" MBA, 1.8GHz i7, 4Gig Ram, 256Gig SSD, HD3000; Powerbook 12" G4 1.33GHz running Debian as a server; Apple TV (1080p version)
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kevin1961

 
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Hi Nethfel.

Ya, I know what you mean about coming round full circle if I get the Sanyo and would be back in the Toshiba fiasco. I think the canon's are going to be the best way forward, but again in Spain... you can't try any of the models, not even in computers, cameras, lenses etc, you have a 15 day money back deal, which means you have to buy it and then take it back, but everything is sealed in the boxes or in show cabinets with chunky alarm chains strapped to them but no batteries etc. I have looked at many US Youtube clips where I see you guys can actually do all of that which is lucky and makes you feel easier buying stuff. I have been back to the same store in the past with camera lenses changing them and a 60 Km round trip just because they won't put it on a camera and let you test it jajaja crazy eh!!. Well I am going to try the camera you have as it seems an all round good cam and we know it will integrate with FCS or the HFS 200. I will let you know how I have got on once I have bought it and tested it out. Thanks again for all of your time and patience with this, it is much appreciated.

Best regards

Kevin
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kevin1961

 
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Hi Nethfel. Just to let you know I bought the canon legria HF200 and am very happy with it, thanks to all your help!. The images are to say the least amazing and even better than the sony HVR-Z1E on trials with 2 macs side by side the image quality is better. I have run all clips through iMovie 08 and then imported to FCP where the video and audio files convert 100%. So thanks for all your time and help with me on which camera to buy.

All the very Best

Kevin
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Nethfel

 
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Not a problem, glad to help. Glad to hear you're enjoying the camera! The canons do put out spectacular video! With regard to your workflow; I'd consider, if you're only using iMovie '08 to import the footage, I'd remove it from your workflow and use only FCP (in FCP, you'd use Log and Transfer). Just a thought.

My Macs: Late 2013 rMBP w/ 750m; Mac mini G4, 1.25 GHz, 512m ram (server); Late 2011 11" MBA, 1.8GHz i7, 4Gig Ram, 256Gig SSD, HD3000; Powerbook 12" G4 1.33GHz running Debian as a server; Apple TV (1080p version)
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kevin1961

 
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Hi Nethfel. Have tried in Final cut pro : Import Files & Import Folders but they do not high light to select them, however I have not tried log and capture! for the simple reason I did not think that FCP would recognise what is just a hard drive, will give it a whirl this afternoon as it's Sunday. Let you know if it works and if FCP finds the camara. All the best. Kevin
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Nethfel

 
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No no - don't use "Log and Capture" - with an AVCHD camcorder, like the HF200, either connect the camcorder via USB or take the SDHC card out and plug it into an SDHC reader and in FCP, use "Log and Transfer" - it will automagically find the card and show the footage on there, then just drag the clips you want down into the import section of the L&T window and poof, it imports and converts the footage for you.

My Macs: Late 2013 rMBP w/ 750m; Mac mini G4, 1.25 GHz, 512m ram (server); Late 2011 11" MBA, 1.8GHz i7, 4Gig Ram, 256Gig SSD, HD3000; Powerbook 12" G4 1.33GHz running Debian as a server; Apple TV (1080p version)
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thomas998

 
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Given your budget I would suggest you stay away from Sony. Sony makes good camcorders but at your price point you would likely have to get one that was stripped down, and to me a critical need on any camcorder is manual focus control with a physical knob. Sony tends to give you manual focus control with a finger on a LCD screen which is worthless at best. Add to that Sony has this desire to make everything proprietary including mic inputs (which require a special adapter to connect to their special connection and you find that a simple mic connection now requires a $50 dollar sony connector to plug in a simple mic (not to mention the difficulty in finding the sony connector). So save yourself some frustration and go with a different brand, while I have a couple of sony camcorders that deliver good pictures, I wouldn't recommend them to anyone else because of the mentioned issues.
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Nethfel

 
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Little late to the party Thomas998 The OP already has a Canon HF200

My Macs: Late 2013 rMBP w/ 750m; Mac mini G4, 1.25 GHz, 512m ram (server); Late 2011 11" MBA, 1.8GHz i7, 4Gig Ram, 256Gig SSD, HD3000; Powerbook 12" G4 1.33GHz running Debian as a server; Apple TV (1080p version)
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