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Apple iPhones and Verizon Wireless


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JPH675

 
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Verizon's excellent 4G LTE network works great with the iPhone 5. The one problem is that one cannot talk (voice) and work on the Internet (data) concomitantly. The Apple stores have been blaming the Verizon network stating there is no issue with talking and Internet use together on AT&T's network using iPhone 5.

This new iPhone 5S also will not allow talking and Internet work at the same time on Verizon's network. Yesterday, the Apple store once again blamed the Verizon network. HOWEVER, today I personally saw that Android platform's do allow voice and data use together on Verizon's network! Common sense suggests that two different "receivers" are required for such capability of voice and data use together. Apple installs such capability in the iPhones! Why reduce Verizon customer's capability? And why not own it?

Given that Verizon was so late in getting iPhones, 4 was the first I think, what is Apple's beef with Verizon and why hide it?

Any insight?

JPH
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chscag

 
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This has been a problem all along with Verizon - ever since they got an iPhone (CDMA) model that could be used on their network. This is not a problem with AT&T and T-Mobile who both use GSM. And by the way, Sprint has the same problem as Verizon (they also use CDMA). I don't know why the Android works with voice and data at the same time on Verizon's network, perhaps someone else can provide an answer.
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Instead of jumping to that conclusion, why not simply relate that you witnessed an Android phone on VZW's network using talk and data at the same time and see if anyone knows how that could be done? No reason to begin a thread with a disagreeable tone. You catch more bees with honey than with vinegar.

There are forum members here who understand cellular networks very well and could provide some insight.

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That inability to talk and use the data connection simultaneously was a target of advertising by AT&T a few years ago. As chscag said, CDMA is a different protocol than GSM, which is the source of the limitation. I don't know how any Android phone can get around the inherent protocol, unless the phone in question was being used by someone in the vicinity of a WiFi hotspot and was using WiFi for internet while talking on the CDMA network. Maybe one of the experts on the internals of the technology can chime in here.

- Jake
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Found this here.
Quote:
...Apple confirmed to us that the iPhone will not allow simultaneous data and voice on CDMA. The problem, says the company, does not reside with the iPhone but the networks involved.

That’s partially true, as it would actually be possible for Apple to allow this functionality by adding additional radios. But it does not in order to keep the phone thin and light. It is also unlikely to make that concession because Voice over LTE capability is likely to come to carriers and devices sooner rather than later. This would mean that devices would only lack simultaneous access when they fell back to older network methods like 3G. You can read a very thorough explanation of the reasons behind this over at Anandtech.

- Jake
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JPH675

 
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Thanks to Jake for providing the background to formulate the answer to this question. To make a highly technical answer simple, this may be a reasonable interpretation: The AT&T GSM network iPhone 5, 5C, and 5S are able to accommodate multiple lightweight transmitters for voice and data use together. The different Verizon CDMA network requires heavier transmitters for voice and data use together that would have exceeded Apple’s design weight goal for the iPhone devices named previously.

Therefore, the fair and correct answer to this question should have been something to the effect that Verizon’s unique network requires two heavy transmitters that would have increased the weight of the iPhone 5 and up significantly; therefore, Apple chose to not install the second transmitter that would allow voice and data to be used together. Perhaps technology will solve this dilemma in future iPhones.

The Android devices with dual capability are usually larger and heavier than the 5, 5C, and 5S for Verizon. There is no chance wi-fi was involved in response to one inquiry.

Seem reasonable?

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I would add to that that Apple is betting that VoLTE (Voice over LTE) is going to be in place soon, in which case Apple is ready to support that technology on all networks with that capability, including Verizon.

Anandtech.com had a nice progression of technology in the iPhone series in the discussion of why the iPhone 5 didn't do voice and data simultaneously over Verizon. Apple is sticking to that progression path with the iPhone 5S.

- Jake
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Been a suffering Verizown customer for years, it sucks but I've learned to live with it. They were talking about LTE letting data and voice work at the same time when they started rolling it out on Verizon, but apparently they decided against that notion for iPhones. It's quite alright, if I need to look something up on my 5s, at least I know it's blazing fast when I'm not talking on the phone, so I can call back if I have to, but most situations aren't that dire that I have to surf while I'm on the phone, it's convenient to have but not really necessary.

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As someone who is generally engrossed in the conversation I'm having when I'm talking on the iPhone, it has never occurred to me to try and do both at the same time. When I lived in the US I was on AT&T so I probably could have done it, but I like to focus so I just:

a. put the call on hold
b. look up the info
c. return to the call

Can't Verizon at least do that? If not, one has to wonder why they bothered with CDMA in the first place? (is there some other technical advantage I'm unaware of, in other words)
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Nope, Verizon can't do that. No voice and data at the same time. I shifted from AT&T to Verizon because AT&T coverage is miserable, gave up that feature. But it's worth it to me to have much better converge. Don't know who the "they" is in your sentence, but Verizon settled on CDMA very early on and has built a huge network based on that technology. CDMA lost out to GSM in Europe, and AT&T chose to go that path. Pretty much no CDMA in Europe at all, but a Verizon iPhone still can work there with their Global plans, so they must activate the GSM features in the iPhone when you sign up for the plan.

With LTE the standards will merge and eventually LTE or LTE descendants will be the universal protocol. At least, that's the plan. LTE can support simultaneous voice and data. It's up to the providers to implement it. So we current Verizon users can hope that Verizon decides to implement VoLTE.

- Jake
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JPH675

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostshadow View Post
Been a suffering Verizown customer for years, it sucks but I've learned to live with it. They were talking about LTE letting data and voice work at the same time when they started rolling it out on Verizon, but apparently they decided against that notion for iPhones. It's quite alright, if I need to look something up on my 5s, at least I know it's blazing fast when I'm not talking on the phone, so I can call back if I have to, but most situations aren't that dire that I have to surf while I'm on the phone, it's convenient to have but not really necessary.
Well said, most of the time, the lack of voice and data use together is not needed. Today was an exception: there were September expense report abnormalities within the team I lead and we could not open up that app and speak about the issues together.

Apple sells the iPhone "experience", and today my experience was diminished. Apple's spin is this is a Verizon issue which is less than a half-truth. In fact, it was Apple who decided against installing these iPhone 5S's with dual transmitters for voice and data. I read in another forum that installation of these dual transmitters would have made Verizon iPhones the same weight as the old 4S's, but I cannot confirm this with what I consider a reliable source. I would gladly exchange a few ounces of additional weight for concomminant use of voice and data.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPH675 View Post
Well said, most of the time, the lack of voice and data use together is not needed. Today was an exception: there were September expense report abnormalities within the team I lead and we could not open up that app and speak about the issues together.

Apple sells the iPhone "experience", and today my experience was diminished. Apple's spin is this is a Verizon issue which is less than a half-truth. In fact, it was Apple who decided against installing these iPhone 5S's with dual transmitters for voice and data. I read in another forum that installation of these dual transmitters would have made Verizon iPhones the same weight as the old 4S's, but I cannot confirm this with what I consider a reliable source. I would gladly exchange a few ounces of additional weight for concomminant use of voice and data.
Well, consider this: Apple DID make a specific Verizon phone in the 4 family, and that caused considerable confusion--it required different antennas, different chips, etc. Today a unified chip for GSM/CDMA is available and the antennas have been improved to work with both, but it's still a limitation of CDMA of voice OR data. The solution to add a second transmitter would mean the antennas are now split, the battery life is decreased and overall the phone is diminished for 90% of the users. You can, of course, move to a GSM phone (AT&T type). And that move adds no weight, doesn't affect battery, just takes advantage of the way GSM works. Of course, the downside is the crappy coverage from AT&T right now, but when you do have it, you get voice AND data simultaneously. Life is tradeoffs.

- Jake
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Around here (Dallas - Fort Worth) AT&T coverage is very good, about as good as Verizon. The worst coverage is from T-Mobile and then Sprint. Although both are getting better.
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Yeah, it's spotty. In major urban areas, fine. Along Interstates, pretty good. Rural? Not so hot. Verizon is a bit better in those areas outside the urban centers.

- Jake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPH675 View Post
In fact, it was Apple who decided against installing these iPhone 5S's with dual transmitters for voice and data. I read in another forum that installation of these dual transmitters would have made Verizon iPhones the same weight as the old 4S's, but I cannot confirm this with what I consider a reliable source. I would gladly exchange a few ounces of additional weight for concomminant use of voice and data.
Are you okay with also paying more, and having it be heavier AND thicker than the GSM iPhone? How many radios is Apple supposed to put into this thing just because you can't pick a carrier that can do data+call efficiently?

Sorry, I really do not see where this is in ANY way Apple's fault. But I do see a carrier that made a VERY DUMB CHOICE back in the day and made a conscious decision to continue short-changing and inconveniencing their customers compared to their competition.

Apple IS about the experience. That's why it took them FOREVER to come to CDMA -- because the experience *isn't as good.* As others have pointed out, the suckers who chose a CDMA carrier were essentially lied to further about VoLTE's adoption as well.

So maybe -- just maybe -- you should ask yourself who's cheating you on this. My guess is that the responsible party -- the person who keeps you tied to a carrier that uses an inefficient, unacceptably poor experience -- lives in your mirror.
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