iTunes Store "Terms of Service"

bobtomay · bobtomay #1 (**permalink**)

10-03-2012, 11:34 AM

Ran into the "Terms of Service" has changed today on my iPhone.
So, click the link so I can "update" an app I already have.

Get to it and scroll to the bottom of the screen...

Not only is it itty bitty teeny font size....

but,

Pg 1 of 55?????

Really?????

Isn't that carrying "cover my butt" just a tad bit far????

vansmith · vansmith #2 (**permalink**)

10-03-2012, 11:46 AM

The American (and I imagine most) terms and conditions for iTunes as of May (not sure why it hasn't been updated) is more than 15,000 words long. To be fair, that covers all stores but it's still astronomically long.

osxx · osxx #3 (**permalink**)

10-03-2012, 11:51 AM

It had a bug on day one I had to agree to it 6 times before it would take.

bobtomay · bobtomay #4 (**permalink**)

10-03-2012, 11:56 AM

I had just agreed to an updated one 3-4 days ago without even a second glance like most everyone does. What's the point?

You either want an app, a song, a movie or whatever and are willing to bow down to whatever it is they have in all the terms of service agreements we live with today or you move on and live without any technology.

But, 55 pages!!! Gimme a break dude.

pendlewitch · pendlewitch #5 (**permalink**)

10-03-2012, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobtomay

I had just agreed to an updated one 3-4 days ago without even a second glance like most everyone does. What's the point?

You either want an app, a song, a movie or whatever and are willing to bow down to whatever it is they have in all the terms of service agreements we live with today or you move on and live without any technology.

But, 55 pages!!! Gimme a break dude.

I agree..there is no point. Layer upon layer of legalese is designed to protect them from the big boys.

There is a clause that states that the software was not intended for use in the operation of nuclear facilities or air traffic control systems etc in which it's failure could lead to death or other disastrous consequences.

If they gave you just the updated clauses perhaps we would be more interested but someone did some stats once and the time one would spend reading them was comparable to reading one part of the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

chas_m · chas_m #6 (**permalink**)

10-06-2012, 03:35 AM

a. it's 55 pages because you are looking at it on an iPhone. Just like how an ebook that's 532 pages on the iPad is 2,516 pages on my iPhone.

b. EULAs are long. And in tiny type. And full of legalese. If you want to know why EULAs can't be written in plain (and shorter) English, ask the lady who sued McDonald's (and won) because coffee is hot. I'm not saying she didn't deserve what she won, but I'm saying that lawsuit (and countless others like it) added yet another layer of disclaimers. That's why EULAs (et al) are so long.

bobtomay · bobtomay #7 (**permalink**)

10-06-2012, 06:23 AM

Yep, leave it to our local Apple apologist to reason why a 55 pg ToS is ok.

pendlewitch · pendlewitch #8 (**permalink**)

10-06-2012, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobtomay

Yep, leave it to our local Apple apologist to reason why a 55 pg ToS is ok.

Can I invoke MotM privileges here or should I just retire to the lounge with a nice Cognac ?

bobtomay · bobtomay #9 (**permalink**)

10-06-2012, 05:14 PM

If you invoke privileges, pass me the Cognac.

pendlewitch · pendlewitch #10 (**permalink**)

10-07-2012, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobtomay

If you invoke privileges, pass me the Cognac.

Lol!....I found the mischievous blog I mentioned earlier.

Apple Have Updated The iTunes Terms And Conditions | andrewt.net

chas_m · chas_m #11 (**permalink**)

10-07-2012, 11:09 PM

You might note, Tom, that Apple summarized the changes on the first page of the 55-page TOS.

But you miss the point I was making: EULAs are long. You're generally used to seeing them on a computer screen that can hold more text, that's all. The iTunes EULA is not overly long for a EULA.

If you'd like proof, download a text copy of the Windows EULA as a PDF and open it in iBooks on your iPhone.

vansmith · vansmith #12 (**permalink**)

10-09-2012, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chas_m

If you'd like proof, download a text copy of the Windows EULA as a PDF and open it in iBooks on your iPhone.

Challenge accepted.

Here's the EULA for Windows 7 Professional. On the Mac, it's 13 pages. In iBooks (I'm using an iPod Touch but the size would be the same for a pre-iPhone 5 iPhone), it's still 13:

windows7eula.png

Quote:

Originally Posted by chas_m

The iTunes EULA is not overly long for a EULA.

Find one that's longer or at a minimum, close in size (let's say 45-50 pages).

TattooedMac · TattooedMac #13 (**permalink**)

10-09-2012, 11:09 AM

Semantics !!!!

vansmith · vansmith #14 (**permalink**)

10-09-2012, 11:31 AM

What good is a counter argument without attention to semantics?

chas_m · chas_m #15 (**permalink**)

10-09-2012, 05:38 PM

Argh, I've been tripped up! You are looking at it as a PDF, so it is of course the same number of pages on one platform as another, just with microscopicly small type.

Convert the text into an epub. Then you'll see what I mean.

bobtomay #1 (permalink)
Member Since: Dec 22, 2006 Location: Texas, where else? Posts: 24,994 Mac Specs: 15" MBP 2.33 C2D 256 4GB, MBA 13" i7 1.8, MB 2.0 2GB, Nano 4th, 3GS, iPad 1	10-03-2012, 11:34 AM Ran into the "Terms of Service" has changed today on my iPhone. So, click the link so I can "update" an app I already have. Get to it and scroll to the bottom of the screen... Not only is it itty bitty teeny font size.... but, Pg 1 of 55????? Really????? Isn't that carrying "cover my butt" just a tad bit far???? I cannot be held responsible for the things that come out of my mouth. In the Windows world, most everything folks don't understand is called a virus.
	QUOTE Thanks

vansmith #2 (permalink)
Member Since: Oct 19, 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 17,696 Mac Specs: 2012 13" MBP (2.5 i5, 8GB)	10-03-2012, 11:46 AM The American (and I imagine most) terms and conditions for iTunes as of May (not sure why it hasn't been updated) is more than 15,000 words long. To be fair, that covers all stores but it's still astronomically long. Important Links: Community Guidelines : Use the reputation system if you've been helped. M-F Blog :: Write for the blog Personal Twitter
	QUOTE Thanks

bobtomay #4 (permalink)
Member Since: Dec 22, 2006 Location: Texas, where else? Posts: 24,994 Mac Specs: 15" MBP 2.33 C2D 256 4GB, MBA 13" i7 1.8, MB 2.0 2GB, Nano 4th, 3GS, iPad 1	10-03-2012, 11:56 AM I had just agreed to an updated one 3-4 days ago without even a second glance like most everyone does. What's the point? You either want an app, a song, a movie or whatever and are willing to bow down to whatever it is they have in all the terms of service agreements we live with today or you move on and live without any technology. But, 55 pages!!! Gimme a break dude. I cannot be held responsible for the things that come out of my mouth. In the Windows world, most everything folks don't understand is called a virus.
	QUOTE Thanks

chas_m #6 (permalink)
Member Since: Jan 22, 2010 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 16,269 Mac Specs: 2009 MBP, Black speakers, Black Benq second monitor, black(ish) iPhone 5s, Black 2012 iPad, etc.	10-06-2012, 03:35 AM a. it's 55 pages because you are looking at it on an iPhone. Just like how an ebook that's 532 pages on the iPad is 2,516 pages on my iPhone. b. EULAs are long. And in tiny type. And full of legalese. If you want to know why EULAs can't be written in plain (and shorter) English, ask the lady who sued McDonald's (and won) because coffee is hot. I'm not saying she didn't deserve what she won, but I'm saying that lawsuit (and countless others like it) added yet another layer of disclaimers. That's why EULAs (et al) are so long. Cheers, chas_m -- My essay for switchers and newbies
	QUOTE Thanks

bobtomay #7 (permalink)
Member Since: Dec 22, 2006 Location: Texas, where else? Posts: 24,994 Mac Specs: 15" MBP 2.33 C2D 256 4GB, MBA 13" i7 1.8, MB 2.0 2GB, Nano 4th, 3GS, iPad 1	10-06-2012, 06:23 AM Yep, leave it to our local Apple apologist to reason why a 55 pg ToS is ok. I cannot be held responsible for the things that come out of my mouth. In the Windows world, most everything folks don't understand is called a virus.
	QUOTE Thanks

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bobtomay #9 (permalink)
Member Since: Dec 22, 2006 Location: Texas, where else? Posts: 24,994 Mac Specs: 15" MBP 2.33 C2D 256 4GB, MBA 13" i7 1.8, MB 2.0 2GB, Nano 4th, 3GS, iPad 1	10-06-2012, 05:14 PM If you invoke privileges, pass me the Cognac. I cannot be held responsible for the things that come out of my mouth. In the Windows world, most everything folks don't understand is called a virus.
	QUOTE Thanks

chas_m #11 (permalink)
Member Since: Jan 22, 2010 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 16,269 Mac Specs: 2009 MBP, Black speakers, Black Benq second monitor, black(ish) iPhone 5s, Black 2012 iPad, etc.	10-07-2012, 11:09 PM You might note, Tom, that Apple summarized the changes on the first page of the 55-page TOS. But you miss the point I was making: EULAs are long. You're generally used to seeing them on a computer screen that can hold more text, that's all. The iTunes EULA is not overly long for a EULA. If you'd like proof, download a text copy of the Windows EULA as a PDF and open it in iBooks on your iPhone. Cheers, chas_m -- My essay for switchers and newbies
	QUOTE Thanks

TattooedMac #13 (permalink)
Member Since: May 19, 2009 Location: Waiting for a mate . . . Posts: 7,728 Mac Specs: 21" iMac 2.9Ghz 10.9.4 13"MBP 2.9Ghz i7 Yosemite 10.10 ~ iPhone5 iOS 8 ~ iPad Mini iOS 8 ~ ATV3 6.1	10-09-2012, 11:09 AM Semantics !!!! CogFrog Studio's ~ Photography, Apps and Web Development Dont forget to use the Reputation System if someone has helped you out !!! Arguing with a zealot is only slightly easier than tunneling through a mountain with your forehead!!!!!
	QUOTE Thanks

vansmith #14 (permalink)
Member Since: Oct 19, 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 17,696 Mac Specs: 2012 13" MBP (2.5 i5, 8GB)	10-09-2012, 11:31 AM What good is a counter argument without attention to semantics? Important Links: Community Guidelines : Use the reputation system if you've been helped. M-F Blog :: Write for the blog Personal Twitter
	QUOTE Thanks

chas_m #15 (permalink)
Member Since: Jan 22, 2010 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 16,269 Mac Specs: 2009 MBP, Black speakers, Black Benq second monitor, black(ish) iPhone 5s, Black 2012 iPad, etc.	10-09-2012, 05:38 PM Argh, I've been tripped up! You are looking at it as a PDF, so it is of course the same number of pages on one platform as another, just with microscopicly small type. Convert the text into an epub. Then you'll see what I mean. Cheers, chas_m -- My essay for switchers and newbies
	QUOTE Thanks

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