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Internet, Networking, and Wireless Discussion of networking, internet, and wireless including Apple's Airport products.

Wired Network Questions


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PGB1

 
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Member Since: Dec 05, 2008
Location: Detroit
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Hi Everyone!
I searched and can't find an answer to my question. Actually, the answer may exist and I don't recognize it. I would be very appreciative of any assistance you can give!

SITUATION:
In my house, we have a PC and two Real Computers (MacBook Pro each running OSX 10.4.11). The internet DSL Modem/Router is a 2WIRE 2701HG-B. It is billed as an Internet Gateway-Router-Hub-Wireless Access Point. We can't use wireless in all places in the house because we have radiant barrier installed, thus hindering the signal. So, my "Genius" idea was to hardwire the network for the PC (2nd floor) and for one MacBook Pro when used in my office, in the basement. The 2WIRE device is half-way in between, covering the living area of the house. (Bad-To-No Signal in the basement & the PC doesn't have wireless, just a 10-100 card.)

ATTEMPTED SOLUTION:
My work involved running CAT5e cable to 4 areas. I wired the RJ-45 jacks to EIA/TIA 568B pattern. Each jack runs to a Punch-Down Block in the basement. At the block, all of the Orange/Whites are connected together, All of the Oranges are connected together, etc- through wire #8. Each jack is wired to the same EIA/TIA 568B pattern.

RESULTS:
The 2WIRE unit has Four RJ-45 jacks on it, marked "Ethernet". When I connect any (or more than one) of the computers directly to the 2WIRE, life is good and everything works, including the PC. But, when I connect a cable from the 2WIRE to a wall jack and a cable from a different jack to any computer, there is no internet access.

FAILED SOLUTIONS TRIED:
I've wired Ethernet jacks in many,many building in my job as an electrician. But, that's as far as it ever got. The technical people took it from there!
I traced every wire and tested each for continuity, opens and shorts to any other wire in its bundle or anyplace else. All tested OK (Except for my shoes from 4096 trips up and down the stairs!) The cables I am using to connect to the 2WIRE & Computers to the wall jacks were called "Patch" cables, as in Pin One on each end has the same wire. (If I hold the ends with the clips down and each cable entry facing away, all the wires are in the same order.)

MAYBE?:
Is it possible that I should use Reversed cables between the computers and the jacks and the 2WIRE to a jack? (Where Pin One on one end is the same wire as Pin 8 on the other.) Or do I need a Cross Over cable where some wires are switched?

Or is it (more likely) possible I'm crazy and this idea won't work at all? I hate to use a wireless range extender, as the PC still won't work unless I ditch a card inside and replace it with a wireless card and I can't put the 2WIRE next to the PC to plug it directly in because the wireless signal won't reach the basement office.

Again, I sure appreciate any help you folks can direct my way!
Thanks Very Much,
Paul
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twdcmd

 
Member Since: Mar 28, 2009
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You would think that having good continuity on all your wires would be good enough, but that's not always the case. I don't think you current setup will work as it is (you're probably thinking electrical, connect all the wires and power flows over all of them)...not sure I completely have my mind wrapped around it, but if you have one wire run to the location of the router and one wire run to each of the 3 computer locations, you're good there. They should be punched on individual locations on the patch panel (not sure if you have it that way or all 4 punched on one by your description). Unless you want to then run 2 more CAT5's to the router location, I would buy a cheap 10/100 switch from geeks.com or newegg and locate it at the punch down. Connect all 4 from the punch down to the switch and I think you'll be good.

Make sense?
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PGB1

 
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Thanks for responding Twdcmd!
I guess I wrote a mis-leading description of how the wires are installed on the Patch Panel. Taking Blue, for example: Each Blue is punched onto a separate clip. All of the clips with blue wires are bonded together within the patch panel. (There is a common jumper bar across the back of each row of clips.) The Other colors are installed the same way- Single wire per clip and all clips for the color bonded. No color-to-color bonds are made.
Does this make more sense? (Good think I'm not a technical writer by trade!)

If I use a 10/100 switch, would I place the switch at the router, thus going into the router once- from the switch to the router? And a wired computer would plug into a wall jack and a wire would run from a wall jack to the 10/100?

Again, I sure appreciate your help. I stayed up late last night searching the internet for home networking information. I sure found conflicting information! (And, gee, I thought the internet was 100% accurate!)

Paul
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ticedoff8

 
Member Since: Aug 28, 2009
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Yeah, that's not going to work.

You don't wire the RJ45 pins 1 - 8 and bridging all of the same colored wires together at the central panel is bad.

As you may not know, the RJ45 connector for Ethernet only uses pins 1, 2, 3 & 6.
In the telco world, pins 4 & 5 are used for T-1 or analog phone - and analog phone carries -48vdc battery and 110vac ring tone. That would be bad for Ethernet, so the Cat5 Ethernet standard skips those pins. The old Cat3 standard allowed the use of pins 1 - 8 (so you could use standard telco patch cords), but you were limited to 10Mb/sec.

Instead of a punch block at the central location, terminate both ends of the Cat5 with an RJ45. Pick a color code, and stick with it for all connections; E.G.: B/W (Blue/White)=pin 1, W/B=2, O/W=3 & W/O=6 for ALL RJ45 ice-cubes. Don't reverse anything and don't over think it. And make sure you match the colored pairs together - 1&2 is a pair and 3&6 is a pair. You may ask "What do I do with the extra wires" - they don't matter. Cut them off is fine. Connecting them to the unused pins of the RJ45 is fine. It. Doesn't. Matter.

I assume you have a DSL / phone line running into the 2Wire router upstairs and it is working fine. The 2Wire has a switch built in, so there should be some open RJ45 sockets on the 2Wire. These are your ethernet connections. The 2Wire may have 4 open ethernet ports. These are typically 10/100 "auto-sensing" Ethernet.

At the central location, get a 10/100 ethernet switch (or a 10/100/1000) and plug all of your home-runs into the switch. Using a Cat5 cable, connect one port on the central switch to one port on your DSL / router upstairs. Assuming your Cat5 is terminated correctly to the RJ45 ice-cubes, when you connect the two devices together, you should get a "link light" on the central switch & the router ports.

Congratulations, you now have a real Network.

Now, plug your PC into the Cat5 and you should get a link light for that port.
And so on.

The ultimate test: Can you surf the net?

BTW: Don't forget a Cat5 run to your TVs - if you have Xbox, PS3 or WII, they have RJ45 for Internet to do online gaming. And, newer TVs and DVRs have RJ45 for Internet access to download movies and order PPV. Run one Cat5 to each bedroom and TV location, then use a simple ethernet switch if you have more than one device to hook up (E.G.: TV, Satellite & XBox + uplink is a 4-port switch).

BTW: You can get another wireless router and put it in the basement. But that's for another post.
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PGB1

 
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Thanks for the good information Ticedoff8!
I went nuts today testing & re-testing. I even took all the wires off the block and tied in one jack. It worked. But, as soon as a second jack was tied in- Neither worked. Pull either out- The remaining one worked. Lots of head shaking going on here today!

I think I understand what you told me:
1) All Runs from the RJ-45 Wall Jacks (Female) in the house get RJ-45 Modular Plugs (Male) in the central location.
2) A 10/100 Switch goes in the central location and the Modulars plug into the switch.
3) At Wall Jack "A" a Cat5e modular cord plugs from the wall jack into the 2Wire router.
4) At Wall Jack "B" a Cat5e modular cord plugs from the wall jack into the PC's 10/100 card.
5) At Wall Jack "C" a Cat5e modular cord plugs from the jack into the MacBook Pro's ethernet jack.
6) I can leave the unused pins (4,5,7 & 8) terminated in the jacks or chop them off.
7) The modular cables from wall jack to device are patch cords and not cross-overs.

How'd I do, teach? Did I get it correct?
Again, I sure appreciate the help and education!
Paul
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ticedoff8

 
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Yep - you got it.

You can make up the patch cables yourself (assuming you have the 1000' reel of Cat5 and the 100-count bag-O-ice-cubes). Or, buy the patch cords at Best Buy, Fry's Electronics, Radio Shack, Staples - what ever. Don't pay more than $5 each or you'er being ripped off. There is no minimum length, so if you make them yourself, you can tailor it to fit you requirements.

Couple things to clarify:
1) Do not cross over the cables in the walls. Pin-1 of the female in the wall goes to pin-1 on the ice-cube in the basement.
Newer routers / switches automatically detect when the signals need to be crossed over.
If you were to connect a PC to a PC, then you would need a x-over.
PC to switch / router, router to switch or switch to switch, no x-over needed.

2) There will be 4 "extra" wires at each connection (Cat5 cable is 4 pairs, 8 wires total). You can cut off the extra 4 wires, not the pins on the ice-cubes.

Personally, I wire all 8 wires of the Cat5 to the RJ45 pins (male & female). That way, I can use my RJ-45 wall plug for a telephone jack - the RJ11 telephone plug works in an RJ45 socket. Just make it YOUR standard to use (say) the br/wht pair 4&5 at both ends and the gr/wht pair for 7&8.

Now, you are certified "Dangerous". Good luck.
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