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Images, Graphic Design, and Digital Photography Discussion of all things graphics.

Canon EOS 400D


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MrChris

 
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Hey guys,

So I'm thinking of buying a DSLR sometime in the near future and have been dong a bit of homework and have found the EOS 400D to be a pretty nice piece of kit!

Reviews I have read have all been good but I was just wondering if anyone on here uses one of these, if so what your honest opinion is of it in terms of functionality, quality, value for money etc??

I have been interested in photography for a good while now and have decided to take the plunge and get something that will benefit me (& my job, as I now work for a media company that do a fair bit of photography work).

I currently have a 4.1MP Sony Cybershot camera that does the job to some extent. But after using the Canon DSLR's at work I have seen what I have been missing out on! lol

Cheers,

Chris
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MrChris, I just purchased one for work. I have used only a couple of times so far but very nice. I looked at a few others and this kept coming to the top of my requirements list. Now I am trying to work out how to tell the wife that I want one for hom e as well.

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warrenstanley

 
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Hey Chris
I bought it about 6 months ago I was looking for a good quality, reasonably priced SLR- absolutely loove it. Brilliant camera. No regrets. Only wish it has image stabilizer built in - get a bit of the shakes some times. I have found though that I need to supplement the SLR with a small good quality 'point & shoot' - can't carry the camera & lenses everywhere.
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Appearantly Canon is going to replace the 18-55mm kit lens with an IS version soon. If you can told out for a month or 2 and see what Canon is doing, then you should.

For more info on Canon cameras and lens just go to www.dpreview.com
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I have the 350D and love it. We have a 10MP point and shoot and my 8MP 350D makes the point and shoot like a toy. The one you are looking at is even nicer. You wont regret it, and all the cool stuff you'll be able to do with more control. Save your money because i'm sure you'll be wanting some lenses soon too. I got the itch. A pricy one but fun too.

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Village Idiot

 
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I used a 400d for a while before moving up to a 30d. If it's your first DSLR, you'll like it. It's a great camera. In all actuality, you won't notice a big difference in image quality until you get to the FF cameras or the other 1d series. It's controls are a little clunky after using my 30d as to change the aperture in manual mode, you have to hold down a button and scroll the shutter speed wheel, where as the 30d has a dedicated control for the aperture. It also has scroll buttons which make navigating it a little different. But as a first DSLR, it's probably something you'll never notice until you upgrade.

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I bought one in may, and love it. I do not regret my purchase one bit, and if you know what you are doing, you can produce some stunning photos.

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If you want IS built in then check out the Pentax K10D. It's the best camera in the sub $1000 group in my opinion. Weather and dust sealed, backwards compatible with all existing Pentax lenses (over 25 million) and can shoot in both PEF and DNG RAW formats. It can also shoot a RAW file and develop it to jpeg in camera. It is the only camera out there with a multi exposure mode. Pentax is not as popular as Canon or Nikon but it is up there. You really should have a look if you like the XTi, it's built so much better.

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The 400D is the best DSLR for any amateur photographer. I have one myself an couldn't be happier. It's been fantastic for everything I wanted to do from macro to night photography, models landscapes. Very, very versatile and well worth the price. Especially if you get the twin lens kit - not sure if they're still running that deal, but when I bought mine a few months back you would pay $100 more and get a 75 - 300mm telephoto lens when you buy the camera. Plus the $100 cashback on the camera itself so really, the lens was free.

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Village Idiot

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
If you want IS built in then check out the Pentax K10D. It's the best camera in the sub $1000 group in my opinion. Weather and dust sealed, backwards compatible with all existing Pentax lenses (over 25 million) and can shoot in both PEF and DNG RAW formats. It can also shoot a RAW file and develop it to jpeg in camera. It is the only camera out there with a multi exposure mode. Pentax is not as popular as Canon or Nikon but it is up there. You really should have a look if you like the XTi, it's built so much better.

SLC
In camera IS isn't as good as IS lenses. You can get up to 3 stops difference with an IS lens where in camera will only get you 1 stop.

Also, all DSLR's can shoot RAW formats and can process JPEGs depending on what settings you have chosen.

Multi-exposure. What's that? Pretty much all DSLR's can do bracketing, if it's anything similar

Canon lenses...enough said

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Originally Posted by Leukeh View Post
The 400D is the best DSLR for any amateur photographer.
Blanket statements like that are misleading! No single camera is the best for any amateur photographer. Each one has it's own pros and cons, and each has it's own set of features that the others don't have.

The K10D has recieved many rewards since it's introduction. Most of those awards have been the camera of the year award from different organizations. American Photo magazine (the professional version of popphoto) voted the Pentax K10D as it's editors choice for 2007. Higher than the Nikon D80, 400D, D200,30D, 5D, EOS 1D in whichever flavor you like, and every single other camera out there. That tells me that this camera is something special.

The problem is that Pentax is just coming into their own in the DSLR world, whereas Canon and Nikon have been around for a few years. Too many people have the blinders on in that respect, and they are really missing out.

Don't make large generalized statements like the one you made. You're not helping anyone out. But rather you are potentially causing them to pass up something special because you are narrow minded.

SLC
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Originally Posted by Village Idiot View Post
In camera IS isn't as good as IS lenses. You can get up to 3 stops difference with an IS lens where in camera will only get you 1 stop.

Also, all DSLR's can shoot RAW formats and can process JPEGs depending on what settings you have chosen.

Multi-exposure. What's that? Pretty much all DSLR's can do bracketing, if it's anything similar

Canon lenses...enough said
This one is even worse!

So I'd like to know how it is that you are certain that IS lenses are better than in camera image stabilization? Have you used both? Or did yu swallow all that bull that the Canon people shoveled onto your plate?

I have used IS lenses and they do work, the thing is they cost $$$. The in camera image stabilization in my K10D gives me 3-4 stops of latitude everytime. And I get it with every lens I attach, not just the ones I shelled out and extra hundred or so for. The thing is that by adding IS to a lens you are adding one more complex mechanical system that some articles (even the ones from the pro Canon websites) are saying is causing lenses to become unreliable. Why pay extra for a lens that will be more prone to failure?

People who say that IS is so much better than in camera shake reduction do so out of fear. Why else would Canon's adds tout that fact unless they felt threatened? You don't attack something that doesn't threaten you now do you.

Yes all DSLR cameras can shoot RAW files, but not all can turn those RAW files into jpegs without the use of a computer, I mean adding custom white balance,sharpening,and color saturation and contrast in camera, not in Photoshop. As far as I know (and I review photography equipment professionally) the K10D is the only one that offers this. All DSLR's have the ability to simultaneously record a RAW and jpeg file, the K10D is the only one with a RAW converter built in.

All DSLR's have a bracketing feature for exposure and white balance. The Pentax K10D has a multi exposure feature that allows you to take multiple images of a moving subject and then the camera stitches them into a single image that show the path of movement. You've seen those shots of a kid swinging from a rope, where the photo shows 5 or 6 exposures of the kid in his entire path of motion. The K10D does this in camera, no other DSLR can do that, they require you to do it manually in photoshop.

Canon lenses enough said? Is that supposed to impress me? The kit lens that comes with the 400D is one of the most dismal excuses for photo optics ever created. I can get a promaster lens from sears for $40 and it will be better than that lens. The L lenses are nice, but that's it and I don't want to shell out over $1000 on average for one of those.

Pentax has been making glass since the 30's. They've made camera glass since the 50's and suprisingly enough they made Canon and Nikon's lenses till the 70's. Their prime lenses are among the most highly revered lenses that have ever been created, and they all still work with the K10D. Carl Zeiss just released a batch of ultra high quality primes this month. Guess what, you can get them for minolta (sony), Nikon, and Pentax, not Canon.

The fact of the matter is that all the rhetoric out there that holds Canon above eveyone else is born out of lies. They are nice cameras (30D and up) but they are almost always equalled or beaten in terms of quality and value.

The closest thing to the K10D from Canon is the 30D. But even the 30D's command dial is cluttered up with pre-set dummy modes for people who don't know how to use their camera properly. The Nikon D200 is Nikons closest to the K10D and these are more closely comparable. The K10D has no "macro" mode, "Portrait" mode or any of those other dummy guess modes. Pentax expects that their users know what they are doing, perhaps that is why their products aren't selling as fast as the 400D's.

Just go out and hold a K10D and a 400D and you'll be able to tell the difference just in picking them up.

SLC
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Village Idiot

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
This one is even worse!

So I'd like to know how it is that you are certain that IS lenses are better than in camera image stabilization? Have you used both? Or did yu swallow all that bull that the Canon people shoveled onto your plate?

I have used IS lenses and they do work, the thing is they cost $$$. The in camera image stabilization in my K10D gives me 3-4 stops of latitude everytime. And I get it with every lens I attach, not just the ones I shelled out and extra hundred or so for. The thing is that by adding IS to a lens you are adding one more complex mechanical system that some articles (even the ones from the pro Canon websites) are saying is causing lenses to become unreliable. Why pay extra for a lens that will be more prone to failure?

People who say that IS is so much better than in camera shake reduction do so out of fear. Why else would Canon's adds tout that fact unless they felt threatened? You don't attack something that doesn't threaten you now do you.
So you're saying you Pentax will perform just as well as a Canon when both have a fixed focal length 300mm lens with the Canon having in lens IS and the Pentax having in camera? In lens IS works better for longer focal length lenses. If you're using a 10-20mm wide angle lens, IS isn't going to do much at all for you.

And as far as I've heard or experienced, people using IS lenses from Canon haven't been having many problems. If IS goes wrong in a lens, you're left without that lens. If IS goes wrong in a camera, you're left without that camera.

Sounds like you're the one going on an offensive here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
Yes all DSLR cameras can shoot RAW files, but not all can turn those RAW files into jpegs without the use of a computer, I mean adding custom white balance,sharpening,and color saturation and contrast in camera, not in Photoshop. As far as I know (and I review photography equipment professionally) the K10D is the only one that offers this. All DSLR's have the ability to simultaneously record a RAW and jpeg file, the K10D is the only one with a RAW converter built in.
You're confusing me. All DSLR's have the ability to shoot just a RAW. I don't know of any that won't let you set a white balance for a JPEG. I'm talking about all the current DSLR's in each manufacture's lineup. You can set other things like sharpness as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
All DSLR's have a bracketing feature for exposure and white balance. The Pentax K10D has a multi exposure feature that allows you to take multiple images of a moving subject and then the camera stitches them into a single image that show the path of movement. You've seen those shots of a kid swinging from a rope, where the photo shows 5 or 6 exposures of the kid in his entire path of motion. The K10D does this in camera, no other DSLR can do that, they require you to do it manually in photoshop.
Oh noess...that's really not a big one. Now if you told me it could do HDR in camera, I would have laughed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
Canon lenses enough said? Is that supposed to impress me? The kit lens that comes with the 400D is one of the most dismal excuses for photo optics ever created. I can get a promaster lens from sears for $40 and it will be better than that lens. The L lenses are nice, but that's it and I don't want to shell out over $1000 on average for one of those.

Pentax has been making glass since the 30's. They've made camera glass since the 50's and suprisingly enough they made Canon and Nikon's lenses till the 70's. Their prime lenses are among the most highly revered lenses that have ever been created, and they all still work with the K10D. Carl Zeiss just released a batch of ultra high quality primes this month. Guess what, you can get them for minolta (sony), Nikon, and Pentax, not Canon.
Kit lenses aren't made to be the greatest. You can get good shots with them, but you're getting a cheap lens so you can use your camera. If you want, you can buy a body and buy seperate lenses.

I'm getting into doing photography professionally and possibly for a living. Pretty much all my new lens purchases will be L's. They are superior quality glass. Cost is not an issue if you're looking to take the best photos. If you're worried about budget lenses, you're going to get budget results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
The fact of the matter is that all the rhetoric out there that holds Canon above eveyone else is born out of lies. They are nice cameras (30D and up) but they are almost always equalled or beaten in terms of quality and value.
OK...Who else makes a FF that has incredible high ISO performance at 3200 ISO for $2500? In fact, all Canon cameras are regarded as having great high ISO performance because of the DIGIC sensors. There's comparisons and proof every where. I guess those are all lies too...

The 1D series? They just announced the 1DIIIs. Full frame 22mp, and some outrageous FPS. Nikon, just announced their first FF camera. There's not much out there until you get to stuff like Lieca and Hassleblad but Lieca is mainly about prime lenses and Try and find a reasonably priced Hassleblad DSLR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
The closest thing to the K10D from Canon is the 30D. But even the 30D's command dial is cluttered up with pre-set dummy modes for people who don't know how to use their camera properly. The Nikon D200 is Nikons closest to the K10D and these are more closely comparable. The K10D has no "macro" mode, "Portrait" mode or any of those other dummy guess modes. Pentax expects that their users know what they are doing, perhaps that is why their products aren't selling as fast as the 400D's.

Just go out and hold a K10D and a 400D and you'll be able to tell the difference just in picking them up.

SLC
So Pentax doesn't cater to the entry level crowd and you're trying to reccomend a 10d as some one's first DSLR? That's called a contradiction right? I use a 30d and the dial works fine for me. On manual it controls the aperture.

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Yes I am saying that the camera with in body image stabilization will perform as well, it does for me anyway! And yes you are right, if image stabilization goes wrong in a lens you are left without a lens. if it goes out in a body you are left without a body. If you are going into photography professionally you better plan on replacing tons of bodies, and hope to not have to replace your $2,500 L lenses very often. Bodies come and go but good glass lasts and lasts, why decrease the potential lifetime on it by stuffing circuitry and moving parts in there rather than integrate it into the body where it will be replaced periodically. I didn't come up with the idea that IS lenses are less reliable www.theimagingresource.com did.

Do you understand what ACR or Lightroom or aperture do to your RAW files? They apply the white balance and sharpening etc to the image. The 400D or any other camera save the Pentax K10D relies on you to use one of these programs to do so. But with the K10D you can capture a RAW image, then later that afternoon if you decide you want to process it, you can use your camera to do so. You don't HAVE to use your computer if you don't want to. I use this feature to free up space on my card when I'm in the field and can't dump it. With other cameras you can capture a RAW file, a jpeg, or a RAW and jpeg simultaneously. You can not however process a RAW into a jpeg in camera.

The pentax Kit lens is an all metal lens and is regarded on the other photography forums as being by far the best kit lens on the market, and worthy of even professional use. I'm net even sure that the Canon kit lens has even a metal lens mount.

Of course the vast majority of users will not buy the absolute top level high-end dSLRs... not now and not ever. They will stick to cheaper bodies and probably cheap glass as well. But a lot of them will still, for no good reason whatsoever, think that they are doing it better if that equipment says Canon or Nikon. You see this mentality when someone asks what brand to buy into and they are told "You'll look more professional using a Rebel", despite such comments being clearly ridiculous to us. People will say "Canon and Nikon have been in optics for decades", as if the Asahiflex never existed! It's ridiculous... but people will swallow such comments if there's no-one around to correct them (which there often isn't on C&N-dominated forums)... they are told that within a year they'l need to have an "upgrade path" or the ability to rent lenses, and often they'll accept it without thinking.

You can call me cynical, but honestly there are a lot of people of spectacularly weak will around. They see reviews, they see comments on forums, **** they watch CSI and notice what cameras they use... and so there's this mentality in place which is fairly hard to beat. It's not only on the internet either, I see it all the time in shops. Sometimes it's the sellers themselves, but more often it's the first-time buyers who come in with preconceptions

Canon is now not the only company with a dSLR that has a full-frame 35mm sensor. It's now a list of two, and that list is Canon and Nikon. Yes Canon and Nikon, of "Should I buy a Canon or a Nikon?" or "You'll be alright as long as you buy Canon or Nikon" fame. Internet posters and marketing have successfully made many many people think that there are only two companies making good dSLRs. Now they both have the full-frame sensor advantage... even if you don't accept that 35mm sensors have any practical advantage, they do have an advertising advantage. Advertising and perception is all-important, as Canon knows in putting Image Stabilisation in their cheapest, crappiest kit lens. IMO it's going to become even easier for Canon and Nikon's volunteer salesmen all round the world to push their myths and put people off buying anything else.

And by the way you should really check this out, I think it sums the 1Ds III pretty well
http://www.photographybay.com/2007/0...-press-release

Pentax caters to the entry level crowd, they have the K100D for that. It's more like the XTi

But if one really wants to learn photography, they'll benefit from not having those "fudge" settings

SLC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
Yes I am saying that the camera with in body image stabilization will perform as well, it does for me anyway! And yes you are right, if image stabilization goes wrong in a lens you are left without a lens. if it goes out in a body you are left without a body. If you are going into photography professionally you better plan on replacing tons of bodies, and hope to not have to replace your $2,500 L lenses very often. Bodies come and go but good glass lasts and lasts, why decrease the potential lifetime on it by stuffing circuitry and moving parts in there rather than integrate it into the body where it will be replaced periodically. I didn't come up with the idea that IS lenses are less reliable www.theimagingresource.com did.

Do you understand what ACR or Lightroom or aperture do to your RAW files? They apply the white balance and sharpening etc to the image. The 400D or any other camera save the Pentax K10D relies on you to use one of these programs to do so. But with the K10D you can capture a RAW image, then later that afternoon if you decide you want to process it, you can use your camera to do so. You don't HAVE to use your computer if you don't want to. I use this feature to free up space on my card when I'm in the field and can't dump it. With other cameras you can capture a RAW file, a jpeg, or a RAW and jpeg simultaneously. You can not however process a RAW into a jpeg in camera.

The pentax Kit lens is an all metal lens and is regarded on the other photography forums as being by far the best kit lens on the market, and worthy of even professional use. I'm net even sure that the Canon kit lens has even a metal lens mount.

Of course the vast majority of users will not buy the absolute top level high-end dSLRs... not now and not ever. They will stick to cheaper bodies and probably cheap glass as well. But a lot of them will still, for no good reason whatsoever, think that they are doing it better if that equipment says Canon or Nikon. You see this mentality when someone asks what brand to buy into and they are told "You'll look more professional using a Rebel", despite such comments being clearly ridiculous to us. People will say "Canon and Nikon have been in optics for decades", as if the Asahiflex never existed! It's ridiculous... but people will swallow such comments if there's no-one around to correct them (which there often isn't on C&N-dominated forums)... they are told that within a year they'l need to have an "upgrade path" or the ability to rent lenses, and often they'll accept it without thinking.

You can call me cynical, but honestly there are a lot of people of spectacularly weak will around. They see reviews, they see comments on forums, **** they watch CSI and notice what cameras they use... and so there's this mentality in place which is fairly hard to beat. It's not only on the internet either, I see it all the time in shops. Sometimes it's the sellers themselves, but more often it's the first-time buyers who come in with preconceptions

Canon is now not the only company with a dSLR that has a full-frame 35mm sensor. It's now a list of two, and that list is Canon and Nikon. Yes Canon and Nikon, of "Should I buy a Canon or a Nikon?" or "You'll be alright as long as you buy Canon or Nikon" fame. Internet posters and marketing have successfully made many many people think that there are only two companies making good dSLRs. Now they both have the full-frame sensor advantage... even if you don't accept that 35mm sensors have any practical advantage, they do have an advertising advantage. Advertising and perception is all-important, as Canon knows in putting Image Stabilisation in their cheapest, crappiest kit lens. IMO it's going to become even easier for Canon and Nikon's volunteer salesmen all round the world to push their myths and put people off buying anything else.

And by the way you should really check this out, I think it sums the 1Ds III pretty well
http://www.photographybay.com/2007/0...-press-release

Pentax caters to the entry level crowd, they have the K100D for that. It's more like the XTi

But if one really wants to learn photography, they'll benefit from not having those "fudge" settings

SLC
Heh...now you sound like a lot of the Nikon guys. Especially with the FF comment. Of course there's an advantage. Lower Noise, more pixels on a large sensor. That equals better image quality.

And what are you talking about: "If you are going into photography professionally you better plan on replacing tons of bodies"

If you're going to really call yourself a photographer you should learn one lesson. It's the person behind the camera that makes the pictures. I have a 300d that I can go take some spectacular shots with. I even have an old Minolta Maxxum HTSI from highschool that I got like 9 years ago that I can take great shots with.

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