04-22-2007, 12:51 AM

I'm looking at cameras in the price range of the Canon 400D... or at least trying too. I can't find too many Australian prices on the internet so can't really make the comparison. So, does anyone know of any other cameras around the same price and can advise me why/why not to get one?

04-22-2007, 12:57 AM

Not sure if this will help you but take a look here.

http://www.dpreview.com/

04-22-2007, 06:44 AM

Welcome to Mac-Forums, Leukeh.

I'm wondering if you are talking of the Canon PowerShot SD400 Digital ELPH or the Canon Digital Rebel XTi (a.k.a. EOS 400D).

I'm a Canon girl and I can't imagine you going wrong with choosing a Canon camera.

04-22-2007, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by MacHeadCase

Welcome to Mac-Forums, Leukeh.

I'm wondering if you are talking of the Canon PowerShot SD400 Digital ELPH or the Canon Digital Rebel XTi (a.k.a. EOS 400D).

I'm a Canon girl and I can't imagine you going wrong with choosing a Canon camera.

Haha, my bad, I meant the latter one. I didn't even know the Powershot one existed... but yes, looking for a DSLR.

I have used one before, also the Canon D10 and D20, and being a lot newer I've found the 400D to be much better... but having only used them I was wondering what else was available to me.

Thanks for the advice =) I have my heart set on this camera but before I make a final decision I figured I needed to check!

04-22-2007, 08:08 AM

Forget camera bodies, first decide what system you are going with, Canon or Nikon.

Decide what type of photos you want to shoot, landscape, portrait, wildlife or sports (sports costs loads). Then decide on the lenses you will need and then the money that's left will determine the body you can afford.

04-22-2007, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by gilesjuk

Forget camera bodies, first decide what system you are going with, Canon or Nikon.

Decide what type of photos you want to shoot, landscape, portrait, wildlife or sports (sports costs loads). Then decide on the lenses you will need and then the money that's left will determine the body you can afford.

Sounds like a good idea but... I'm just starting out as a hobby photographer. I'm not 100% sure of what I'll be taking photos of. It'll probably, at this stage, be anything and everything that can be a nice photo.

That said, I seem to have developed a passion for macros, portraits and night photography. But really, at this stage I'm looking for a sort of "all rounder" camera.

I'm fairly certain I will be buying a Canon, unless someone can convince me otherwise...

And lenses, well, I think I can get the Canon 400D in a package deal that will give me a 75-300mm zoom lens and standard 35 - 85mm. Or something like that. So they will do until I find the need for a new one, like if I want to explore another area of photography, get some different effects etc. So lenses aren't really a priority for me.

04-22-2007, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Leukeh

Sounds like a good idea but... I'm just starting out as a hobby photographer. I'm not 100% sure of what I'll be taking photos of. It'll probably, at this stage, be anything and everything that can be a nice photo.

That said, I seem to have developed a passion for macros, portraits and night photography. But really, at this stage I'm looking for a sort of "all rounder" camera.

I'm fairly certain I will be buying a Canon, unless someone can convince me otherwise...

And lenses, well, I think I can get the Canon 400D in a package deal that will give me a 75-300mm zoom lens and standard 35 - 85mm. Or something like that. So they will do until I find the need for a new one, like if I want to explore another area of photography, get some different effects etc. So lenses aren't really a priority for me.

Nikon has the d80. Some people complain that Nikon cameras have more noise but others say it's not true. Either system will work for you.

I have a Canon 300d, 400d, and 30d. They're all great cameras and the 400d is good when you want to make mega prints, other than that the whole pixel thing starts to get over rated when you get over 6 and 8 mp. Some people don't like the 400d because the body itself is a smaller body compared to the larger more expensive cameras in the Canon line up. I personally didn't mind it so much.

The other brands out there with comparable products are Olympus, Sony, and Pentax.

They all have their pluses and minuses but Canon and Nikon are the two biggest players in the Consumer/Prosumer DSLR market right now, leaving their cameras easy to find accessories and lenses for.

The Sony lens system is the old Konika/Minolta lens system as they bought out the company a while back. Sony is a relatively new player in the DSLR market and I have not experience with their cameras

Pentax has a legacy system like sony's where you can use any (I think this is the right designation, don't crucify me if I'm wrong) K mount lens that was ever made on their new DSLRs. No experience here either.

Olympus has a deal where for about $500 US you can get their DSLR camera body and two lenses. They use Lieca glass which is top notch and some times very expensive, not to say you can't pay $1700 for a lens from another brand, just look at my lens thread in this section. The big negative about them in my opinion, which others may not share, is that their sensor is a 2.0 crop. All lens ranges are magnified by 2. The sensor is also smaller than most others and is prone to more noise in darker / higher iso ranges.

The Nikon uses a 1.5 crop, Canon 1.6, and Sony I believe a 1.5 as Nikon uses Sony sensors in their cameras. Canon is believed to have the best high ISO / noise performance which will be a benefit if you're shooting in very low lit conditions and can't use a flash (AKA: Concert photography).

What I tell everyone is that if you can go to a store that has the brands you want, pick them up and see how they feel. Forget all but the basic specifications, close your eyes, then buy what you feel, feels like the best.

Alos, if you go with Canon, look at the Canon 50mm f/1.8 EF-s II as a complimentary lens to your kit. It's only $70 US at www.bhphotovideo.com and is a great buy for such a fast prime.

Edit: Sorry if I made things harder.

Some "resources"

Good site for camera info - www.dpreview.com
Canon Digital Photography Forums - http://photography-on-the.net/forum/
My flickr. All shots were done with a 300d, 400d, and 30d. It's a mix of my good stuff and snapshot for posting on the internet - http://www.flickr.com/photos/cokronk/

04-22-2007, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Leukeh

So lenses aren't really a priority for me.

I'm sorry but lenses are everything, if you aren't bothered about having good glass on your camera body you might as well drill a hole in the plastic lens mount cover and use that.

What use is 6, 8, 10, 12 megapixels when the image the lens is placing onto the sensor isn't sharp, has CA (chromatic abberations) and vignetting.

What you will find with the kit lenses are they are slow and require you to stop down to get any sharpness out of them.

If you don't need zoom (and most people don't) I would suggest a few primes like 50mm f1.8 (f1.4 if you can afford to). f1.8 85mm.

Any of the low end Canon DSLRs will take a good picture, but the performance of lenses is very varied.

04-22-2007, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Village Idiot

Nikon has the d80. Some people complain that Nikon cameras have more noise but others say it's not true.

It is true they have more noise, but the noise is typically grain not coloured noise.

But on the flip-side Nikon's ergonomics are better for some people.

Canon's latest SLR really pushes them ahead with ISO 6400, 10FPS, liveview etc...

04-23-2007, 12:33 AM

For price conversions, I use this site all the time:

http://www.freetranslation.com/cc/

04-23-2007, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by Village Idiot

Edit: Sorry if I made things harder.

Not in the slightest. You gave me a lot of information in a relatively short space... and ultimately saved me hours of research. So thank you!

Originally Posted by gilesjuk

I'm sorry but lenses are everything, if you aren't bothered about having good glass on your camera body you might as well drill a hole in the plastic lens mount cover and use that.

I understand that a good quality lens is one of the most important parts in photography. The thing is, I'm a beginner. I'm more than happy to work with whatever the camera body comes with, and then when I start to produce photos in a more professional sense, I will definitely buy a high quality lens. And the thing is, being a beginner I won't be able to tell the difference until I become more advanced.
I do know where you're coming from though. With experience you know that a lens is more important than the camera body. The thing is, I have no experience. It's like telling a person learning to drive acceleration is more important than overall speed. They can accept that fact, but they won't really notice the difference when driving two different vehicles.
What you may see as painstakingly obvious differences in the photos from a certain lens, I wouldn't notice at all. Maybe, maybe if someone pointed it out to me... maybe.

04-23-2007, 03:36 AM

I have the D80 and can confirm it is a great camera. Definitely check out DPReview, as someone suggested above.
I'd have to say the D80 is a big step up from the 400D and the features aswell as the ergonomics really swayed my decision. Saying that the 400D is the "Ultimate Amateur Camera" and I don't mean that in a bad way - What you get for the price is probably the best value for money you'll find with DSLR's and I'm certain you won't be disappointed with it. The D80 on the other hand is regarded more as a semi-pro camera so obviously the price is a step above - but I must say it is worth every penny.

As you haven't as yet decided to go with Nikon or Canon and so don't have money already invested in either find a spare hour and go check them both out - Thats the only way you'll know which is best for you. With a good lens on both bodies you'll be hard pressed to find differences in photo quality so pay more attention to how you're going to use them and how easy it is to use the functions on each.

04-23-2007, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by moss918

I have the D80 and can confirm it is a great camera. Definitely check out DPReview, as someone suggested above.
I'd have to say the D80 is a big step up from the 400D and the features aswell as the ergonomics really swayed my decision. Saying that the 400D is the "Ultimate Amateur Camera" and I don't mean that in a bad way - What you get for the price is probably the best value for money you'll find with DSLR's and I'm certain you won't be disappointed with it. The D80 on the other hand is regarded more as a semi-pro camera so obviously the price is a step above - but I must say it is worth every penny.

As you haven't as yet decided to go with Nikon or Canon and so don't have money already invested in either find a spare hour and go check them both out - Thats the only way you'll know which is best for you. With a good lens on both bodies you'll be hard pressed to find differences in photo quality so pay more attention to how you're going to use them and how easy it is to use the functions on each.

But then I'd tell him to go look at the 30D because I think that's a better camera than the D80

But in that case he's want to step up to the D200

Heh...They had to go and make all these great cameras and make the decisions so hard.

OP(Leukeh) - Actually, once you put it on manual mode and start learning about how aperture effects exposure effects shutter speed then you'll understand how different lenses can help you out...and why wide aperture(lower f number) lenses are usually so expensive.

Canon's 50mm lens series goes from f/1.8, f/1.4, f/1.2 and f/1.0 with prices following at $70, $300, $1000, and I think about $3000 or so for the 1.0

04-23-2007, 07:56 AM

But then I'd tell him to go look at the 30D because I think that's a better camera than the D80

But in that case he's want to step up to the D200

Too true, maybe if you all just donate to buy me a D200 I'll give him the D80...

04-23-2007, 10:28 AM

I am a Canon bigot. So, I won't get into any of the brand warfare debates. In the end, since you don't have a closet full of lenses and accessories already you are free to start wherever you wish. I would definitely say go Canon or Nikon, they will give you the greatest potential for growth.

Someone said "Canon is a 1.6, Nikon is a 1.5" for crop factor ... it depends on the specific camera. My Canon 1D MkII N is 1.3, the 5D and 1Ds MkII both have full frame (1.0) sensors. And depending on what kind of photography you're most interested in, a lower crop factor might be a bad thing, rather than a good thing.

I bought my wife a XTi (aka 400D) earlier this year and she loves it. It's much more lightweight and compact than the 10D she had been using or the 30D I was trying to push on her. She's been very happy with it. In particular, the self-cleaning sensor function works surprisingly well.