01-22-2012, 01:28 PM

I've debated this question on numerous photographic forums. Members have this bad habit of throwing out outrageous statements like this without a knowledge of exactly what it takes to get a quality photograph. Resolution doesn't make a good photo. Name brand DSLR cameras don't make good photos, people do. Knowing your photographic basics about light, composition and post processing mean more than the hardware of photography.

I own a beautiful Nikon D7000 with a great collection of lenses. I also own a Leica V-LUX 20 rangefinder for situations where it's not practical to carry a lot of camera gear. I've owned as many pocket digitals in the past 5 years as I have DSLRs. Looking at the resulting photos from both classes of cameras I would defy anyone to tell which were taken with the DSLR or with the Leica rangefinder.

Taken with my Leica V-LUX 20 rangefinder

01-22-2012, 01:31 PM

Great photos and info!

Thanks,

- Nick

01-22-2012, 01:32 PM

While it's true that it ain't the camera.. that Leica's not exactly bottom barrel either

Nice!

btw, I need no convincing.. I've seen plenty of excellent, compelling, images taken with 110 cameras.. pinholes.. etc

01-22-2012, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Dysfunction

While it's true that it ain't the camera.. that Leica's not exactly bottom barrel either

Nice!

btw, I need no convincing.. I've seen plenty of excellent, compelling, images taken with 110 cameras.. pinholes.. etc

The small rangefinder Leicas are made by Panasonic, in the same factory that makes the Panasonic DMC-ZS9 that I bought as a gift for $159.95. It's extremely similar to my V-LUX 20 Leica that cost me $635. Keep in mind this is Leica's bottom of the line digital camera. Their top of the line pocket digital rangefinder is the M9 at a cool $7,000. Leica's best DSLR is the S2-P at $28,000, without a lens.

01-22-2012, 02:34 PM

If either of you gents wants to buy me either of those Leica's I promise to learn how to use it properly lol.

Their top of the line pocket digital rangefinder is the M9 at a cool $7,000. Leica's best DSLR is the S2-P at $28,000, without a lens.

When I read that to my wife her response to me was it's a Leica what did you expect.

BTW Bob can you recommend a good source of info/tutorials for taking good pictures that does not get too bogged down in the mumbo jumbo?

01-22-2012, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by bobmielke

The small rangefinder Leicas are made by Panasonic, in the same factory that makes the Panasonic DMC-ZS9 that I bought as a gift for $159.95. It's extremely similar to my V-LUX 20 Leica that cost me $635. Keep in mind this is Leica's bottom of the line digital camera. Their top of the line pocket digital rangefinder is the M9 at a cool $7,000. Leica's best DSLR is the S2-P at $28,000, without a lens.

The only Leica I have is an M5 I LOVE rangefinders.

01-22-2012, 02:59 PM

I'm with you Bob. That Leica is actually the same as the Panasonic, but with a Leica red dot, and slightly different firmware. The latter of course, can make a significant difference.

It sure aint the body, or the sensor which makes a good photograph. (depending on the time of the shot). In fact, I reckon that on a good mental day, a good photographer can get better results out of a $5.99 throw away film camera than someone who has no experience or imagination and a $6k body with a $4K lens.

Of course, having such tools at your disposal should at least count towards justification and having a job that pays you to do the type of demanding work that is required and expected of you. If one is a weekend warrior, and simply looking for bragging rights, then leave them be. Seems there are too many people like that on the types of forums you're talking about Bob. They're immediately transparent, and usually have no choice but to flock in similar groups. They sure won't get the attention of real photographers or those who take their work seriously.

As for myself, I simply love to shoot and am still exploring what there is for me out there. I don't do it for money anymore (I'll take the occasional job) and really only care about learning and enjoying my time while I'm here. If there's no joy in your life, what's the point?

Doug

01-22-2012, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Slydude

If either of you gents wants to buy me either of those Leica's I promise to learn how to use it properly lol.



When I read that to my wife her response to me was it's a Leica what did you expect.

BTW Bob can you recommend a good source of info/tutorials for taking good pictures that does not get too bogged down in the mumbo jumbo?

Here's a good start. 50 Free Photography Lessons You Should Take for Fun | Photography Colleges

01-22-2012, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Doug b

I'm with you Bob. That Leica is actually the same as the Panasonic, but with a Leica red dot, and slightly different firmware. The latter of course, can make a significant difference.

It sure aint the body, or the sensor which makes a good photograph. (depending on the time of the shot). In fact, I reckon that on a good mental day, a good photographer can get better results out of a $5.99 throw away film camera than someone who has no experience or imagination and a $6k body with a $4K lens.

Of course, having such tools at your disposal should at least count towards justification and having a job that pays you to do the type of demanding work that is required and expected of you. If one is a weekend warrior, and simply looking for bragging rights, then leave them be. Seems there are too many people like that on the types of forums you're talking about Bob. They're immediately transparent, and usually have no choice but to flock in similar groups. They sure won't get the attention of real photographers or those who take their work seriously.

As for myself, I simply love to shoot and am still exploring what there is for me out there. I don't do it for money anymore (I'll take the occasional job) and really only care about learning and enjoying my time while I'm here. If there's no joy in your life, what's the point?

Doug

You've got the right attitude Doug. I stopped trying to prove what I say years ago. I let my photography do my talking.

I will grant some "experts" that with better equipment I can do so much more. There are many key ingredients to making a good photo, light, equipment, software & knowledge. After over 40 years of shooting I don't have to play the "what if" game of experimenting with the many variables. I've been there & done that too many times to count. I know what my camera/lens can do and what my graphics software can do. The actual act of shooting makes final decisions based on a wealth of experience.

01-22-2012, 03:12 PM

Thanks for the quick reply. Some of the links on that page may also help with a project that has been ongoing for a while. I am in the midst of taking some old family photos and restoring them using Photoshop. I am going to end up redoing some of the initial ones that in hindsight seem a bit over processed. Fortunately I can rescan them as needed

BTW I noticed that none of you gents took up the offer to upgrade my gear. Probably for the best. I could make pics from that gear look like it was taken by a three year old.

01-22-2012, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by bobmielke

Here's a good start. 50 Free Photography Lessons You Should Take for Fun | Photography Colleges

I didn't ask for them (Sly did) but bookmarked the link. Thanks for the reference.
I'm strictly an amateur and late to really getting interested (actually reinterested is more like it). Started with B&W and an Agfa Rangefinder many years ago. At the time my interest was more in the Darkroom than behind the camera.

Never made the switch to color because of the cost and fiddling required for processing. Then along came digital and I got interested again, really picking up steam after my brother passed away two years ago.

He was an avid enthusiast both in shooting and post processing.

01-22-2012, 04:08 PM

You're absolutely right about being able to do more with better equipment, but that whole point is lost on anybody whom doesn't acknowledge that the basics need to be addressed first. There are so many trains of thought on this subject, because art (as it were) is such a subjective thing. It's all about interpretation and communication.

The person painting the story, will likely always have a different source of inspiration compared to the person looking at it, who will take from his or her own personal expereinces, the meaning of said piece. Composition, shading, lighting, depth of field, time of day, season of the year...general mood... all affect the overall meaning of, well... anything!

Take a minute or 10, and read this article. It's advice given from 35 of Magnum's Photographers:

35 Magnum Photographers Give Their Advice to Aspiring Photographers

Some of the best and most true to life advice I've ever read. Here's one quote From Christopher Anderson:

What advice would you give young photographers?
Forget about the profession of being a photographer. First be a photographer and maybe the profession will come after. Don’t be in a rush to make pay your rent with your camera. Jimi Hendrix didn’t decide on the career of professional musician before he learned to play guitar. No, he loved music and and created something beautiful and that THEN became a profession. Larry Towell, for instance, was not a “professional” photographer until he was already a “famous” photographer. Make the pictures you feel compelled to make and perhaps that will lead to a career. But if you try to make the career first, you will just make sh***y pictures that you don’t care about.

Doug

01-22-2012, 04:43 PM

I've always loved the simplicity of this shot. Took it with a Canon S3IS (smaller than a G10)

01-22-2012, 04:50 PM

Nice shot. Actually all of the above are wonderful shots.

an even smaller Canon SD790.. or my backpacking camera

01-23-2012, 01:34 AM

It's absolutely true that you can take some great photos with smaller (non-DSLR/SLR) camera, but I have to say that IME you get that little bit more sharpness and clarity with the big boys. It must also be said that good lenses go a lot way toward making a great photo, and you're more likely to have good glass on an SLR/DSLR. Digital bokeh just isnt' the same as real bokeh.