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Images, Graphic Design, and Digital Photography Discussion of all things graphics.

Recommend a solid consumer-grade camera?


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cwa107

 
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OK, so I feel dumb asking this, but having bought a number of digital cameras that haven't lived up to my relatively light expectations, I was really hoping to get the opinion of some of the photo savvy members here....

My wife has been dissatisfied with the last 3 Canon cameras we've owned and the Kodak before it. Her primary complaints are the time it takes to auto focus, as well as blurry images when using *optical* zoom (I'm aware that digital zoom is next to useless and always disable it).

We're not looking for a bulky SLR-style camera. It has to be relatively pocketable, and it has to be reliable. We're satisfied with 4x6 and 5x7 sizes, no need for 8x10 (or larger) capability. I have no brand loyalty at this point, so I'm completely open. Also, bundled software is a non-issue as we'll use iPhoto on the Mac and PSE on the Windows machines.

Budget would be up to $300, although I'd prefer to be in the $150-200 range.

Any ideas? I'm reading reviews at the moment, but would really appreciate some personal experience with more recent cameras (particularly those that are still in production).

Thanks a lot.

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We can recommend some cameras, but honestly it sounds like you would be better off finding out why your wife isn't getting the performance she wants.

It could be:
1) the camera
2) bad technique
3) unreasonable expectations

I would suspect a combination of 2&3 as most likely since you have used a number of Canon cameras with similar results.

Regardless, I and I suspect others here will be glad to help in anyway we can with any of those potential issues.

EDIT: I don't want to short change the problem, but essentially the main issues are light and shutter speed (overly simplifying here I know). But light is critical beyond the entire ISO, aperture and shutter speed triangle. Without adequate light you will find it extremely hard to get good focus. Also without adequate shutter speed (also driven by light) you get motion enduced blur. I mention all of this because almost any modern digital camera is capable of taking outstanding images if properly handled.

EDIT2: having said all of the above you might look at Panasonic Lumix models. They have good glass and I think some models have f2 max aperture (haven't kept up with reviews) which should help.

I've always wanted to be smart, handsome and modest. But, I guess I'll have to be satisfied with two out of three . . .
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cwa107

 
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Thanks Razormac. I totally understand and agree with you. I guess the primary reason I tend to blame the technology is that my wife is entirely happy with the output of most disposable film cameras. In fact, she's threatened (and has on several occasions) just bought a 5 pack of them and left the digital camera at home.

So, not sure if that tells you anything about her technique or expectations, but I find it hard to believe that there isn't a simple enough digital point-and-shoot on the market that can rival a disposable camera's output even in the hands of a novice

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How about posting some problem images with exposure settings? That would go a long way toward us being of any real help. My gut feeling is it is technique and that should be easily overcome with a little basic education.

BTW: others here, Doug in particular, are a lot more knowledgable than I am. I just happen to be the first responder--my own skill level is mid to slightly advanced amateur, but I am learning.

I've always wanted to be smart, handsome and modest. But, I guess I'll have to be satisfied with two out of three . . .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razormac View Post
How about posting some problem images with exposure settings? That would go a long way toward us being of any real help. My gut feeling is it is technique and that should be easily overcome with a little basic education.
As much as I'd like to take you up on that - I'm not sure if you're married - but educating her is kind of out of the equation. We've had these discussions before, her behavior isn't changing

With that said, I'm looking at this one:

Amazon.com: Sony Cyber-Shot DSC-H70 16.1 MP Digital Still Camera with 10x Wide-Angle Optical Zoom G Lens and 3.0-inch LCD (Black): Camera & Photo

What I like about it is the 10x zoom, size, screen size and stabilization features. The camera will always be in full auto mode, and it seems like that works well according to the comments. In particular, the comments about it being "Mom friendly" struck me as a good thing

It also takes 720P video, which is another perk, because currently we carry around a Flip UltraHD, and it would be great if we could combine the two functions into one camera.

Any thoughts?

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Actually, married 34 years so I understand, but I'm an optimist and continue to hold out hope.

Give me a day or so to do some research and read reviews and I'll post back.

I've always wanted to be smart, handsome and modest. But, I guess I'll have to be satisfied with two out of three . . .
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I had a Nikon S600. I thought it was pretty good for a point and shoot. It had vibration resistance, and a 4x zoom. Got rid of it when I got the iPhone 4 though, but decent little camera.

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cwa107

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razormac View Post
Actually, married 34 years so I understand, but I'm an optimist and continue to hold out hope.
Not quite 34 years, but long enough to know that I don't "know better" than her on any subject aside from computers, home improvement and cooking

In this case, she's absolutely convinced that Canon cameras are terrible, and that's where we've gone wrong. My extraordinarily opinionated father-in-law, who had a bad experience with a single Canon camera, has a lot to do with that as well.

I'm not entirely convinced that it's all technique either. I can get a decent shot out of the current cameras, but they do seem to both exhibit a good degree of shutter lag. Additionally, the A590 that we're currently using seems to consistently take poor images, regardless of conditions when zoomed. I think that has something to do with its lack of image stabilization.

Quote:
Give me a day or so to do some research and read reviews and I'll post back.
I appreciate it. I feel like I'm giving you a hard time here, but I really do appreciate your input. And just so you know, neither of us is really an enthusiast when it comes to photography - we're more or less trying to capture candid shots of our two boys.

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cwa107

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
I had a Nikon S600. I thought it was pretty good for a point and shoot. It had vibration resistance, and a 4x zoom. Got rid of it when I got the iPhone 4 though, but decent little camera.
That does look like a nice one. It looks like they have an updated version, the S620. Looking at reviews on that one now. Thanks for the tip.

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I have to admit... I'm a bit befuddled in terms of trying to explain your wife's experiences. I'm a Nikon DSlR shooter, but the LAST thing I'd ever recommend to anyone, is an Nikon point and shoot! They're horrible as far as I'm concerned. No offense Stretch...

My wife whom is anything but technically savvy, loves the Canon P&S's she has owned and never had an issue in terms of image quality, speed or user friendliness. Before I bought her the current one.. she used a really old Elf model, and lemmie tell ya... built like a tank, pocketable and produced outstanding images. I don't like the newer one that much only because the battery life isn't so great, but it takes great snaps.

I'm going to agree with Razormac to a degree, and say that your wife isn't handling the camera quite right, or is expecting it to behave in a way that doesn't follow how she's operating it. That aside, if she doesn't like it, what can you do at this point, right?

That said... I can make several suggestions, but I think the smartest thing would be for you to take her to you local camera emporium and let her man-handle as many models as possible until she feels that the right one is in her hands. It sounds like she already has a good idea about what she likes and doesn't like in a camera, so let her do a process of elimination.

Personally, I actually LOVE disposable film cameras! They have a set aperture, (usually something fairly closed/stopped down to ensure sharpness throughout the frame) as well as set ISO and shutter speed.. so the results are fairly predictable. The thing about more advanced cameras is that there are too many bells and whistles, which can really distract the shooter, and lessen the fun. I believe in shooting for fun as often as possible, and should be stressed as a point when on vacation or shooting family portraits etc..

Well, my first recommendation was going to be a Canon S95. That thing is a bad, bad boy... Outstanding freegin' image quality and at the time of its release, some really interesting and unique features. It really shines in low light situations... But your wife will likely scoff at the idea, so I'll leave it at that.

You might be surprised as this recommendation, but... Casio, makes a few really good models that cater to this philosophy. Simple controls, and not too many of them. I do personally prefer to have manual controls, even on a point and shoot, but a few cameras really get it right with only full auto control, and Casio tends to get high marks with this from me. Especially for the money. Add to that, really nice pic quality. I'll have to investigate the most up to date models (it's been a while since I've cared about PnS) though.

Panasonic Lumix. The LX 3 or LX 5 get outstanding reviews, and I've had the pleasure of playing with an older model, and really did like it. Unfortunately, both are a bit out of the range you stated. But you might have her try other Pani models..

Samsung: The TL500 gets good review but is a bit more than your budget..I'd also suggest trying the TL320 which is between 2-300

Check out this review on Youtube of the Olympus XZ-1 (featuring the Canon S95) YouTube - Olympus XZ-1 Hands-on (feat. Canon S95)

I love the reviewer.. he's a really funny/cheeky dude. Though personally, I think he messed up the shot which he claims the XZ-1 didn't do well... and he goes on to say that it's a bit big.. which I also don't think it is. Compared to the Canon though, sure.. it's bigger. Very nice image quality on it though. Again.. a bit more than you want to spend I think.

I'll have to do more research on slightly less expensive ones!

Doug
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In the price range you are talking about, and the issues your wife has had with the camera, you just are not going to solve them. There will always be a lag between focus and shutter release with PHD cameras. The only way to get rid of shutter lag is to move to the SLR style camera. I think she is expecting professional level photos from non-professional equipment and cameraman.

As to blur, that is going to be 90% technique. Holding the camera at arm's, or even 1/2 arm's length will produce motion blur. That is the nature of the beast. Pull the camera in, brace arms on the chest or lean against a solid object.

Also, when you Magnify and object in a lens you also Magnify any and all movement; either of the subject or the photographer.

I am sitting on $15k in Canon Pro (1D MK2 and 20D backup) gear with top of the line L lenses and I still get some motion blur, however it is my fault usually. Take the gear out of the equation and the fault lies with the person pulling the trigger. At $300 budget, you really can't take the gear out of the equation. At that point, you have to learn and work around the limitations of the camera.

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Maybe Micro Four Thirds? It's as small as a point and shoot and you have the option of changing out lenses. The only issue is the pricing. >_>"

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Two things I would recommend watching out for: you mentioned blur issues. If the lens isn't letting in enough light, the camera will use a longer shutter speed which means you have to hold still for longer, or the image will be blurry. When using zoom, this problem is magnified (no pun intended), as even slight movements can cause blur.

2 solutions: optical stabilization and let in more light.

Most cameras have optical stabilization nowadays, so try to find a camera with a nice bright lens, ideally around f2 or thereabouts. Anything higher (f3.5 and above) is more common, but can lead to the issues you've experienced.

The Panasonic LX 5 busts your budget, but has a gorgeous f2 lens - or check out the Canon S90 or S95 that were mentioned (and yes, I know she dead set against Canon, but the A series camera you currently have is their bargain bin range).

I use a micro four-thirds Olympus E-PL1 (which can be had for well under €300 as a refurb) and with a pancake lens it's pretty compact, but not quite pocketable. But that might be a bit too much work for your wife, what with the lens swapping etc.
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Still researching, but this is what I have so far:

1) I looked over the Sony DSC-H70, read the manual and user guide, and though it looks like a nice little camera, I wouldn't reccomend it. Ultimately it doesn't do anything to address the specific problem you are facing and it seems to lack (from what I could get out of the manual) the capability for setting up a custom shooting mode (something that may help--but more on that later).

2) Agree absolutely with Doug that you need to get your wife to do a hands on to pick a camera. Something that doesn't get enough play is the ergonomics of handling the camera. If you can't comfortably hold it there is NO way you are going to be steady when taking pictures, and in particular when you are already dealing with marginal shutter speeds the extra hand motion will kill your image.

More later

I've always wanted to be smart, handsome and modest. But, I guess I'll have to be satisfied with two out of three . . .
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Some cameras you may want to consider

Panasonic tends to put pretty good glass on their P&S cameras. This one has the ability to customize settings which may help, though toward the top of your budget
Amazon.com: Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS7 12.1 MP Digital Camera with 12x Optical Image Stabilized Zoom and 3.0-Inch LCD (Silver): Electronics

This is similar to the Sony you were looking at; it has a backlit sensor which helps autofocus speeds and allows Sony to pull a software trick for reducing blur in low light. Essentially it shoots a quick series of underexposed (fast shutter speed images) and then combines them into a final picture. I would expect the resultant image has some quality degradation but it may suffice for your application, and the price is right
Amazon.com: Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX5V 10.2MP CMOS Digital Camera with 10x Wide Angle Zoom with Optical Steady Shot Image Stabilization and 3.0 inch LCD: Electronics

Will post updates if I find anything else, though I do agree with Doug on the Canon S95 (though would probably be a tough sell in your house right now).

I've always wanted to be smart, handsome and modest. But, I guess I'll have to be satisfied with two out of three . . .
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