04-07-2006, 09:09 AM

We were told the Intel chips were necessary because of heat issues with the laptops and IBM was dragging it's feet. But, I noticed that one of the few changes on the Spec sheet between the G5 and Intel Duo Core iMac was an upgrade to the Graphics card in the Intel machine.

Is this because of 'Games'?

Maybe Apple's plan over the past couple years all along was to lure the group with the biggest loyalty to windows, the 'Gamers'. The intel chip, more powerful graphics and now Windows itself.

04-07-2006, 09:35 AM

Yes it is funny that a G5 could not go in a Laptop but it could go in a Imac.

I think it is also funny that the Imac has what essentially is a Laptop CPU (core Duo).

I think Apple with XP and OSX as standard can be 2 computers in 1.
Think about it, why buy a PC like Dell( now you would buy a Dell caus its a PC) if you can buy a Mac that works the sames as a Dell PC but looks way cooler and it can also run Mac osx.

People who want a PC will never buy a Mac.
Apple will never get a big market share the way they were going.
Now this will change because all these people that are going to buy a PC can now have the choice of buying a Mac as a PC, with the great bonus of OSX

04-07-2006, 10:35 AM

Apple has doen one of the greatest marketing jobs ever.

First they said you cannot boot Windows on a Mac sparking the $13,000 contest to get that accomplished. People trying to win that prize 1: Had to either purchase an Intel Mac or have a friend who purchased one to have access to the hardware. 2: as developments were made they kept Apples name at the top of tech news. As soon as this was accomplished they released Boot Camp. An Apple API that will probably remain an unsupported Beta forever. Which leads me to point 2.

Apple has now entered the domain of PC manufacturers as Dell, and so one with one major advantage, they DO NOT have to support Windows as an OS. Also they have now gotten around any OEM licensing they would have had to pay to M$ if they shipped anything with the OS pre loaded. By shipping with an in house OS on proprietary hardware they aleviate all the issues Windows will have but since Windows is the dominant OS in the market they have found a way to capitalize on superior harware without the obligations to an inferior OS.

Increase market share at no cost to yourself. Genius.

04-07-2006, 11:30 AM

Apple have been at the top of the tech news for a long time.

This will not help them get Market share (not any significant market share anyway).

The only real way Apple can sell more Macs and increase Market share is to offer Windows on thier Macs.

All these people that are buying Dells and PC's wont be buying a Apple unless it has Windows.

there is one thing for sure is that Jobs and Gates are working together on this.
Gates cant lose because every Mac that has Windows will be another copied sold. (not counting pirate software)
Microsoft dont care about hardware, they never have.
Microsoft dont care who the sell thier software to.
Apple will pay microsoft if they bundle XP or Vista with thier PC, that is for sure.
I am quite sure its already been worked out or being worked out.

In the end i think it is a win win for both Apple and Microsoft.

It will be interesting to see if Apple do bundle both OS's and do start getting more market share hardware wise, because software OS's wise they wont because it will stay the sames if they have Mac osx and Windows on the same computer, they are selling a copy of both so the hardware Market share may go up but the software market share will stay the same.

04-07-2006, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Les Exposé

Apple will pay microsoft if they bundle XP or Vista with thier PC, that is for sure.
I am quite sure its already been worked out or being worked out.

In the end i think it is a win win for both Apple and Microsoft.

It will be interesting to see if Apple do bundle both OS's and do start getting more market share hardware wise, because software OS's wise they wont because it will stay the sames if they have Mac osx and Windows on the same computer, they are selling a copy of both so the hardware Market share may go up but the software market share will stay the same.

Apple will not bundle M$ window with their hardware. That is one cost Apple will not pay. Apple will have to support window if is comes on their hardware, which they said they would not. Also adding windows will increase the cost of the hardware, because the cost of windows, which you know will be passed on to the consumer.

04-07-2006, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Les Exposé

Apple have been at the top of the tech news for a long time.

This will not help them get Market share (not any significant market share anyway).

The only real way Apple can sell more Macs and increase Market share is to offer Windows on thier Macs.

All these people that are buying Dells and PC's wont be buying a Apple unless it has Windows.

there is one thing for sure is that Jobs and Gates are working together on this.
Gates cant lose because every Mac that has Windows will be another copied sold. (not counting pirate software)
Microsoft dont care about hardware, they never have.
Microsoft dont care who the sell thier software to.
Apple will pay microsoft if they bundle XP or Vista with thier PC, that is for sure.
I am quite sure its already been worked out or being worked out.

In the end i think it is a win win for both Apple and Microsoft.

It will be interesting to see if Apple do bundle both OS's and do start getting more market share hardware wise, because software OS's wise they wont because it will stay the sames if they have Mac osx and Windows on the same computer, they are selling a copy of both so the hardware Market share may go up but the software market share will stay the same.

Hmmm, why do I think that Macanal has returned in yet a 3rd guise. Perhaps it's the poor grammar or just the attitude.

04-07-2006, 06:44 PM

One other reason for buying Dell, though, is that you can get
a 17 inch notebook with WUXGA resolution for $1,000 on sale.
And probably 19 inch notebooks within a year.

The PB 17 inch only comes with WSXGA.

04-07-2006, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by gbv5501

Boot Camp....An Apple API that will probably remain an unsupported Beta forever.

I don't know where you got this idea from. I have read that Boot Camp will be a standard feature in Leopard.

04-07-2006, 07:39 PM

**** will definitely freeze over when Apple starts bundling Windows with their Macs. Supporting the booting of Windows is one thing, as Apple is not directly providing Windows—and sends a clear message that we don't think you should reall need this, but heck if you must, here's the software to do what you need.

If Apple were to start bundling Windows in any form—they would find themselves in the disastrous position of having consumers query Apple's own confidence in Mac OS X.

The crux of the matter is running Windows XP is to support apps that are not on Mac OS X, not to make up for insufficiencies on Mac OS X's part. **** at an AppleCentre I worked at we had a nasty system. It was Apple/Mac OS X based. It wasn't bad because it was on OS X, it was bad because it was a bad app.

The system I use at my current job is for the most part one of the finest systems I have ever had the pleasure of using. I'd say better than the one I wrote for a previous employer. The fact it is Windows based is coincidental—if a Mac client existed, it would be every bit as good as the app would be the same.

Mac OS X would make an excellent business operating system but this is a market that Apple has consistently failed to make any real headway into; and as it stands if they want the enterprise market they have a heck of a lot of work to do; not necessarily on bringing OS X up to speed but selling solutions to enterprise and developers feeling they can develop for OS X.

I guess this is where a computer agnostic programming language would come into play, such as Java or that thing from that small company called NeXT...

OpenStep and YellowBox.

Imagine the possibilities....

Vicky

04-08-2006, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by baggss

Hmmm, why do I think that Macanal has returned in yet a 3rd guise. Perhaps it's the poor grammar or just the attitude.

Get a life!
Stop being so anal, its a forum not theisus

04-08-2006, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by lil

**** will definitely freeze over when Apple starts bundling Windows with their Macs. Supporting the booting of Windows is one thing, as Apple is not directly providing Windows—and sends a clear message that we don't think you should reall need this, but heck if you must, here's the software to do what you need.

If Apple were to start bundling Windows in any form—they would find themselves in the disastrous position of having consumers query Apple's own confidence in Mac OS X.

The crux of the matter is running Windows XP is to support apps that are not on Mac OS X, not to make up for insufficiencies on Mac OS X's part. **** at an AppleCentre I worked at we had a nasty system. It was Apple/Mac OS X based. It wasn't bad because it was on OS X, it was bad because it was a bad app.

The system I use at my current job is for the most part one of the finest systems I have ever had the pleasure of using. I'd say better than the one I wrote for a previous employer. The fact it is Windows based is coincidental—if a Mac client existed, it would be every bit as good as the app would be the same.

Mac OS X would make an excellent business operating system but this is a market that Apple has consistently failed to make any real headway into; and as it stands if they want the enterprise market they have a heck of a lot of work to do; not necessarily on bringing OS X up to speed but selling solutions to enterprise and developers feeling they can develop for OS X.

I guess this is where a computer agnostic programming language would come into play, such as Java or that thing from that small company called NeXT...

OpenStep and YellowBox.

Imagine the possibilities....

Vicky

**** will freeze over?

Well Apple are now using intel. Developing with microsoft and support Dual boot for Window Xp.

2 years ago if you said these things people would think your crazy.

**** has frozen over.

04-08-2006, 02:41 AM

Originally Posted by Les Exposé

Get a life!
Stop being so anal, its a forum not theisus

Ah, so it IS you!

04-08-2006, 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by Les Exposé

**** will freeze over?

Well Apple are now using intel. Developing with microsoft and support Dual boot for Window Xp.

2 years ago if you said these things people would think your crazy.

**** has frozen over.

Erm. No they wouldn't, considering 2 years ago I was discussing these very things with customers at an Apple Store where I worked.

People do think I'm crazy but for reasons far away from Apple

Vicky

04-08-2006, 09:48 AM

Wow, banned already. At least I can see why this time.

Onto the original subject. I am not so sure that games are the motivation. Each major iteration of the line tends to boost the Graphics card (the mini being the exception). And Apple had to transition from the G5 to Intel some time. The fact that they are roughly equal does not matter. It is the first gen, and according to Apple and Intel there is a lot of room to grow. In contrast the G5 has been pretty stagnant for a while.

Taking it at face value this is just Apple transitioning to a platform. The motivation being lower heat at equivalent performance. I think there is a lot more going on that only the Apple inner circle know, but I am not so sure it is games. The intel compiler, bootcamp, ULV processors with very good performance, virtualization... it seems to me Apple is a hardware company and they are trying to prove it.

04-09-2006, 04:08 PM

I think apple's aim is to simply gain more market share. For a long time there has been this apple vs MS line of thinking amoung us consumers, I don't think steve and bill really see it like this. What I think apple are now going to do with leopard (with bootcamp working out of the box, providing you have an XP disc) is to try and change this perception of the consumer so it's apple vs "PC manufacturers".

I also think that apple will have done a lot of research into what group of people they want to get to switch. There are a lot of different types of users in the world. There are people who just want the cheapest machine, and will refuse to buy those "overpriced apples". There are people who don't quite realise that you can actually have a computer with something other than "windows". Who are apple targeting with the switch to intel, the inclusion of bootcamp with leopard?

I think a big group will be the "late teenage to early 20s" generation. Anyone over 30 may be too set in their ways (remember that apple will target the market most likely to switch with the least effort, I'm not saying all over 30s don't have the ability to switch). Especially with the iPod effect, you get a lot of such people going into apple stores and ebing exposed to the macs.

The two popular reasons for not getting a mac are that you can't run your essential windows apps and that you can't run games (which is not true since you can run games on a mac, although not all of the bleeding-edge must have games, but that is the view nonetheless). I can imagine bootcamp helping solving the first issue, the sales patter would be along the lines of "it's built right into leopard, you just put an XP disc in and install, and it just works", there are no hacks, you don't need to know much about computers. This will (and has) already won over some people who have been on the fence.

I also agree with those who think apple will not support installing XP. It will be very easy for them to say that you will need to talk to MS for support (which I think people will accept). Whether MS will actually support it though...hmmm, I suppose the intel macs can be seen as just another "pc box" like a dell, and it means MS gets a sale of XP, so they might provide support.

As for games, I am not sure here. People could run their games on XP via bootcamp, but if they are buying something like the iMac, they will want to know that they will be able to play the latest games for a while before the computer becomes out-dated (since you can't easily upgrade the graphics card in an iMac). Maybe one of the new powermac lines will be aimed at gamers (and by gamers I don't mean the enthusiats who upgrade their processor every 6 months and are into overclocking, these people will never switch fully to macs).

Having said all that, there are a lot of people I know who just buy a pretty good PC (ie, not the cheapest dell they can find) and just buy a new one when it starts to pack in and can't handle the latest stuff. They don't normally upgrade things like the graphics card unless they have a tech-savvy friend. These would be good switcher targets IMO.