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Say goodbye to 15in Non-retina MBP


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RavingMac

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigoo3 View Post
Here's the link for battery replacement cost from Apple. I believe the cost includes the install (labor):

- click on "Battery Replacement" in the upper left of the link
- then expand the "How much does battery replacement cost?" question

Battery replacement cost for 13" or 15" rMBP (in the US) is $199 + tax.

Apple - Support - Service Answer Center

- Nick
Well, that I find annoying. They specifically told me at the Apple Store the 13in rMBP replacement was cheaper as the 15in required replacing additional parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chscag View Post
Well, that's not what ifixit claims. They're saying if you break the headphone jack you're going to be out $1000 since the entire board will need to be replaced. Maybe they're including the labor and some other parts that go along with a new logic board?
I asked for a total cost, but they may have only given me the part cost. If ifixit is correct (and I have no reason to doubt them) that changes the equation considerably.

In particular it makes 13in rMBPs throwaway rather than repair items.

I've always wanted to be smart, handsome and modest. But, I guess I'll have to be satisfied with two out of three . . .
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RavingMac

 
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Based on all the back and forth here, and the corrected repair costs (higher than the Apple Store told me) I have ordered a 2012 model standard MBP.

I've always wanted to be smart, handsome and modest. But, I guess I'll have to be satisfied with two out of three . . .
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cwa107

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavingMac View Post
In particular it makes 13in rMBPs throwaway rather than repair items.
Yep, that's been my gripe with all recent Apple machines, including the iMac. Not very green now, is it?

I'm sorry, on this point, I'm not going to be an Apple apologist. I truly believe that if Apple wanted to, they could build the same machines with a degree of repairability - but they don't want to - and it's not just laziness, but a deliberate and calculated move to keep the faithful coming back as often as possible for their expensive machines.

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I have a feeling that in the future (when these non-upgradeable 2012-2013+ rMBP's are 3-5 years old and older)...that the rMBP's that were configured with minimal ram & storage will be worth very little. And rMBP's that were pre-configured with higher amounts of ram & storage will be in much higher demand & have a much higher resale value.

As a perfect example. I wouldn't touch a used MacBook Air from around 2008/2009. Not because:

- the cpu or gpu is not fast enough
- the storage space is small
- it can't run the latest OS (it can)

It's because they have a max ram of only 2gig. 2gig is really not enough.

Even 2010 MacBook Air's came with 2gig of ram standard (but they could have been pre-configured with 4gig of ram...which is max. ram). So I would stay away from 2010 MBA's with only 2gig of ram as well.

Not until 2011 is 4gig of ram standard on a 13" MacBook Air. And 4gig is what I would consider a minimum to get by with in 2013.

- Nick

- Computer slow, too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
- Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some speedup tips: Speedup
- Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
- Apple Battery Info. Battery
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RavingMac

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigoo3 View Post
I have a feeling that in the future (when these non-upgradeable 2012-2013+ rMBP's are 3-5 years old and older)...that the rMBP's that were configured with minimal ram & storage will be worth very little. And rMBP's that were pre-configured with higher amounts of ram & storage will be in much higher demand & have a much higher resale value.

As a perfect example. I wouldn't touch a used MacBook Air from around 2008/2009. Not because:

- the cpu or gpu is not fast enough
- the storage space is small
- it can't run the latest OS (it can)

It's because they have a max ram of only 2gig. 2gig is really not enough.

Even 2010 MacBook Air's came with 2gig of ram standard (but they could have been pre-configured with 4gig of ram...which is max. ram). So I would stay away from 2010 MBA's with only 2gig of ram as well.

Not until 2011 is 4gig of ram standard on a 13" MacBook Air. And 4gig is what I would consider a minimum to get by with in 2013.

- Nick
Excellent points that I hadn't considered.

I've always wanted to be smart, handsome and modest. But, I guess I'll have to be satisfied with two out of three . . .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavingMac View Post
Excellent points that I hadn't considered.
Actually (to be 100% fair to rMBP's). I just double checked the min. ram specs for the 2012/2013 rMBP's...and min ram is 8gig. This is probably a pretty good amount for the foreseeable future. But eventually...even 8gig will not be enough (for the rMBP's pre-configured with 8gig of ram)...and may be less desirable in the used computer market of the future.

Since that 2012 "regular" 15" MacBook Pro you ordered has a max. ram of 16gig (that is user upgradeable)...and has upgradeable storage AND a user replaceable battery. I think that it will retain value & usefulness very well.

What I'm mainly trying to say is. In the future with these non-upgradeable rMBP's...a slower cpu & gpu (in an older rMBP) may be less of an issue than not enough ram (ram not upgradeable).

- Nick

- Computer slow, too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
- Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some speedup tips: Speedup
- Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
- Apple Battery Info. Battery
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Quote:
And 4gig is what I would consider a minimum to get by with in 2013.
Yeah, I agree Nick. I made a personal observation statement several days ago that the last version of OS X that ran well with 4 GB of memory was Snow Leopard. I still stick to that based on my own usage and experience. With today's machines and puffed up applications, I would not run Mountain Lion or Mavericks with anything less than 8 GB. Again my own opinion! (Before I get hate mail... )
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pigoo3

 
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I think that it depends a lot on what folks are doing...and I think that it depends on what computer model folks are running 4 gigs of ram on.

If folks are running:

- more demanding applications
- running multiple applications
- running multiple demanding applications on older hardware
- newer OS versions (10.8, 10.9)

I can see 4gig of ram not being enough.

In my case I have three laptops that I use frequently. Two of them have 4gig's of ram...and both are running 10.7. One of them is a 2008 MacBook (core 2 duo), the other is a 2011 13" MacBook Pro (dual core i5).

I pretty much just run e-mail & Safari on each...and sometimes some online gaming. I really think both are doing fine with 4gig of ram (for what I'm doing)...but I bet that if I ran more demanding apps, multiple demanding apps, and/or newer OS versions...I can see 4gig of ram being more of an issue. And with the 2008 MacBook (which is maxed out with OS 10.7)...the slower hardware would become more of a bottleneck.

So with 4gig of ram...it's definitely a combination of:

- app complexity
- # of apps running
- age of the hardware
- OS version running

...that will or will not make 4gig of ram a useable amount on a computer in 2013.

- Nick

p.s. Of course 8gig of ram is much better. Especially since when it comes to slowdowns & "beachballs"...which with only 4gig of ram...page-outs & swap file size grow faster...causing more slowdowns more frequently. Which of course can be solved by simply rebooting the computer. But many users don't know...or think of this.

- Computer slow, too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
- Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some speedup tips: Speedup
- Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
- Apple Battery Info. Battery
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I just picked up a 15" MBP mid 2012 inspired mostly by this thread. I was leaning toward that model for a few months now. But this thread made my decision more urgent.

Mine is the Hi-Res 1680x1050 version, the highest resolution wo /retina. I've been leaning toward this resolution. I also wanted USB 3, which meant 2012 or later. So I found a very mint one on Craig's List with a few months of Apple Care left.

Here is the the specific model: MacBook Pro "Core i7" 2.6 15" Mid-2012 Specs (Mid-2012 15", MD104LL/A, MacBookPro9,1, A1286, 2556*) @ EveryMac.com

Also important to me is virtualization. My Windows 8.1 Pro VM definitely runs much faster under Parallels, compared to my 13" MBP also with an i7. Quad core makes a real difference with VMs.

This will be my Mac for the foreseeable future. I too latent the demise of the upgradeable MacBook, though a relative newcomer to the Mac. I upgraded it immediately to 16 GB at a local shop recommended by an Apple Store genius. I now wonder about the long term future of that shop, which is totally dedicated to Mac upgrades.

So in another 2 or 3 years, what sort of Mac will I get? Will they be all closed hardware?
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Quote:
So in another 2 or 3 years, what sort of Mac will I get? Will they be all closed hardware?
I hate to say yes to the above, but I'm afraid that will be the case. I don't see Apple changing course on this.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skallal View Post
Mine is the Hi-Res 1689x1050 version, the highest resolution wo /retina.
Good purchase choice overall. But I hope you have VERY good eyes. That display resolution on a 15" display will have pretty small text!

Quote:
Originally Posted by skallal View Post
So in another 2 or 3 years, what sort of Mac will I get? Will they be all closed hardware?
It does seem the direction that Apple is going. But it would also seem that pre-configuring a computer of this sort (closed hardware) with more ram & storage than would seem to be needed at the time of purchase...would be the smart thing to do.

This would seem to be an reinforcement of the old rule of..."Buy as much computer as you can afford."

Also (due to the closed hardware & difficult/impossible repairability by an end-user)...it would seem that getting extended Applecare would also be a smart choice (even smarter than it would have been previously)!

- Nick

- Computer slow, too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
- Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some speedup tips: Speedup
- Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
- Apple Battery Info. Battery
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigoo3 View Post
That display resolution on a 15" display will have pretty small text!
I have to agree - most likely why I find working on my 21.5" iMac far better than on the MBP (and I'm only 38, eyes aren't that bad yet!). I ordered mine direct from the US without seeing it beforehand, which was a bit silly. Unfortunately only the standard models are available here and at quite a premium.

About the old argument, it's becoming clearer how different people will suffer as a result of the changes. Let yourselves be heard: moan at Apple Stores, send mail to Apple and get your friends to do the same. If they hear that there's a decent proportion of people unhappy about the change, they will address it in one way or another.

Just a question I have for you Pros out there: how long does a machine typically last you, realistically, before the performance sacrifice is just too much and you need to upgrade?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checco View Post
I have to agree - most likely why I find working on my 21.5" iMac far better than on the MBP (and I'm only 38, eyes aren't that bad yet!).
I have one of the last 17" MacBook Pro's...display resolution is 1920 x 1200. I'm sometimes "borderline" disappointed with it...since my eyes are not as good as they used to be (just the way it goes)...and thus the text sometimes is a bit small. But on the positive side...90% of the time I use it on a desktop with an external 30" monitor attached to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Checco View Post
Just a question I have for you Pros out there: how long does a machine typically last you, realistically, before the performance sacrifice is just too much and you need to upgrade?
The unfortunate answer is it really depends. A "Power-User" who always needs the cutting edge of performance may need a new computer annually.

For me (much less demanding)...I still have a 2008 white MacBook that really can do everything I need it to do...even though I do have newer computers that I can use as well.

I think that many folks agree on around 3 years being a good number. But I think 3-5 years probably encompasses a large majority of users.

- Nick

- Computer slow, too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
- Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some speedup tips: Speedup
- Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
- Apple Battery Info. Battery
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigoo3 View Post
I think that many folks agree on around 3 years being a good number. But I think 3-5 years probably encompasses a large majority of users.

- Nick
I'm typically on a 3 year replacement cycle for laptops - that is until I bought my current 2011 MBP. I have a feeling this one will have legs for another 2-3 years. In the next year, I will probably go with a 480GB SSD and maybe replace the battery and go to 16GB, but for now, it has plenty of horsepower for my needs.

Liquid and computers don't mix. It might seem simple, but we see an incredible amount of people post here about spills. Keep drinks and other liquids away from your expensive electronics!
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I was looking into getting a more powerful MacBook (a la MBP) with a disc drive last year...unfortunately the funds weren't enough.

Now I'm kicking myself...I guess a USB disc drive (do they even make Thunderbolt drives?) will do if I decide on a future MacBook.

I've had this white unibody MB since spring of 2010, so it's not exactly time to replace it.

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