01-10-2012, 04:31 AM

IPhone breathing down neck of Android in U.S.

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01-10-2012, 05:28 PM

I never liked android and i never will use one.

01-10-2012, 05:54 PM

Wow I'm impressed that Apple have managed to close the gap so quickly and really I didn't expect them to.

I think many Android owners must be starting to jump ship eh?!

01-10-2012, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by rabbitjetta

I never liked android and i never will use one.

That implies you've never used an Android device before. Good to know you base your decisions on experience and not just blind bias


In terms of a phone, hardware etc.. The Samsung Nexus stomps the iPhone IMO. Gorgeous screen, capacitive touch buttons that disappear and are very accurate, blazing fast 3 and 4g (I've wittnessed the speed.. and have seen consistent 40mbps down 10mbps up) and vanilla Android is also extremely fast, intuitive and great to navigate. The camera is also amazing. Practically zero lag time for non stop shooting, auto stitch pano shots that actually works amazingly well, and an auto focus which you're able to control with the tap of a finger (focuses where you want by touching that area, and of course normal AF)

The only reason Android devices can't compete, and this is obviously the bulk of why one platform is successful and the other isn't, is because of the App Store vs. Android Market. Apple's got Google beat by a long shot because of its tight cloud/app integration, and that says a lot about where Google has to take things in order to catch up. I personally don't think they will, but would love to see them at least try. And try without stealing I.P. in the process.

Doug

01-11-2012, 12:39 AM

I don't mind Android much...however the tablets are lacking the general user experience that the iPad has...it's kind of jumpy, somewhat sluggish...and I've just about played with every Android tablet I can find on the displays at stores...

However the better Android phones are pretty snappy...I'm just not too keen on Android's multitasking - is confusing a good word? I love how iOS allows you to manage applications...on Android I get confused. It needs to be simplified methinks.

With that being said, if I could afford a good Android phone, then I'd rather spend that money on an iPhone, seeing as most of them are the same cost as an iPhone. Am I right?

However, I'll give the smartphone market another year before I decide on a smart phone...

01-11-2012, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by Doug b

That implies you've never used an Android device before. Good to know you base your decisions on experience and not just blind bias

In terms of a phone, hardware etc.. The Samsung Nexus stomps the iPhone IMO. Gorgeous screen, capacitive touch buttons that disappear and are very accurate, blazing fast 3 and 4g (I've wittnessed the speed.. and have seen consistent 40mbps down 10mbps up) and vanilla Android is also extremely fast, intuitive and great to navigate. The camera is also amazing. Practically zero lag time for non stop shooting, auto stitch pano shots that actually works amazingly well, and an auto focus which you're able to control with the tap of a finger (focuses where you want by touching that area, and of course normal AF)

Talk about a reality distortion field. I've experimented with a couple Android phones others have at work and the OS is a kludge. Touch screen sensitivity is STILL a joke, although I hear ICS has more or less caught up to the iPhone 2G finally. And saying the Nexus stomps the iPhone is laughable. The screen has a lower pixel density and those 4G speeds at the cost of battery life is a trade-off I for one wouldn't want to make. The camera… puhleeeze. Not a single review I've seen rates it better or faster than the iPhone 4S. Quite the contrary, every independent review I've seen rates the iPhone 4S' camera as best in class. Heck… here's a group of photos comparing these 2 and other phones in a variety of scenes. The Nexus took some of the worst photos in these comparisons. Oh, and before I forget… there is panorama software available for the iPhone, and alternative camera software like Camera+ that will let you tap to focus in one spot, tap another spot to use that as the reference for exposure control.

Seriously dude… Android has some pluses to it over iOS, but your rabid bias for it is seriously clouding your credibility.

01-11-2012, 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by lifeisabeach

Talk about a reality distortion field. I've experimented with a couple Android phones others have at work and the OS is a kludge. Touch screen sensitivity is STILL a joke, although I hear ICS has more or less caught up to the iPhone 2G finally. And saying the Nexus stomps the iPhone is laughable. The screen has a lower pixel density and those 4G speeds at the cost of battery life is a trade-off I for one wouldn't want to make. The camera… puhleeeze. Not a single review I've seen rates it better or faster than the iPhone 4S. Quite the contrary, every independent review I've seen rates the iPhone 4S' camera as best in class. Heck… here's a group of photos comparing these 2 and other phones in a variety of scenes. The Nexus took some of the worst photos in these comparisons. Oh, and before I forget… there is panorama software available for the iPhone, and alternative camera software like Camera+ that will let you tap to focus in one spot, tap another spot to use that as the reference for exposure control.

Seriously dude… Android has some pluses to it over iPhone, but your rabid bias for it is seriously clouding your credibility.

Rabid bias? That's ridiculous. I've always stated the pluses and minuses of each platform. And just because I've got the ONE Android phone that I feel doesn't stink compared to the rest of the Android Junk out there, it doesn't make me biased. In fact, the Nexus is the only other phone since my EVO which has made me feel like if I had to stick with Verizon (I'll never go ATT again) or Sprint, that it would be fair competition to the iPhone.

As far as reviews go... I've had first hand experience with the Nexus along side an iPhone. I know for a fact that the Nexus has a faster acting camera. The UI/navigation is just as fast as the iPhone's as well. I'll grant you that pretty much every other Android phone I've tried has been "kludgy" in the navigation area, so I'll give you leeway in thinking that the same would be true for the Nexus.

Stock, vanilla Google phone, no carrier branded software added, no gimicky third party GUI... just pure Google UI. It's fast. Very fast. As for lower pixel density, I'll just kind of laugh that one off I guess. It's a gorgeous screen. Output 1080 HD movies either streamed or saved, and you'd be blown away, trust me. You can quote specs all you want, but it's real world use that matters. Besides, it's not just the pixel density which matters. It's the type of screen that matters more in this case. IPS vs. Super AMOLED.. hardly a contest. And you're really going to tell me that your super duper eyes can differentiate between 330 and 316 PPI ? Come on dude.....

Lastly, those photos up on Cnet are a joke. Whom ever was in charge of taking those pics did an awful job, if that's even possible to do with a camera phone... It's easy to see that they used flash with the Nexus phone, while they didn't with the iPhone. That's the first flaw. Secondly, it's easy to see that the person also shot at different angles, and possibly used the enhance feature on the iPhone. Yes, different angles matter, because of how white balance and exposure is perceived.

No matter. My point is simply that it's easy to keep bashing the underdog when it seems the most popular thing to do. But then again, this IS an Apple forum... I think you've also got me misunderstood when it comes to the iPhone. I think it's an excellent phone, and moreover, an awesome camera. It's definitely more feature rich on the camera firmware side than the Nexus's cam is, but it really does get a run for its money on more than one front. I'd be more than happy with the Nexus if it were able to run the same apps as the iPhone! And there in lays the issue I have with Android phones in general.

Believe me, if the iPhone had the same screen size/screen type and form factor as the Nexus, I'd get one ASAP.

Doug

P.S. The whole "has finally caught up to the 2G" bit is really silly and easily misproven. Talk about FUD

01-11-2012, 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by Doug b

capacitive touch buttons that disappear and are very accurate

I've yet to find capacitive touch buttons that actually work well and are not just a gimmick that in real day-to-day use are not a royal pain in the ***... Maybe I need to check the Samsung out to see if it changes my mind!

01-11-2012, 07:16 AM

Really interesting how apple was able to actually get a fair bit of market share from Android in the US.
Obviously having 3 models in the market with different price ranges really does the job for them.
Worldwide Apple doesn't seem to have that much of a chance against Android if you take a look at this statistic: Worldwide smartphone sales to end users by operating system

What do you think? Are US customers just different? I kind of can't really think of an obvious reason why US and worldwide market would behave that differently.

01-11-2012, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Doug b

Rabid bias? That's ridiculous. I've always stated the pluses and minuses of each platform. And just because I've got the ONE Android phone that I feel doesn't stink compared to the rest of the Android Junk out there, it doesn't make me biased. In fact, the Nexus is the only other phone since my EVO which has made me feel like if I had to stick with Verizon (I'll never go ATT again) or Sprint, that it would be fair competition to the iPhone.

LOL! For as long as I can recall (a couple years at least), you've been bleating the virtues of Android and how it's soooo much better than the iPhone. And yeah… you ARE biased, and rabidly so when you claim the Nexus "stomps" the iPhone by touting perceived advantages that are either purely subjective (i.e. 4G and the screen size) or patently false (i.e. panoramic software and touch-to-focus controls). Actually touch-to-focus has been in the default Camera app for at least a couple years now.

As far as reviews go... I've had first hand experience with the Nexus along side an iPhone. I know for a fact that the Nexus has a faster acting camera. The UI/navigation is just as fast as the iPhone's as well. I'll grant you that pretty much every other Android phone I've tried has been "kludgy" in the navigation area, so I'll give you leeway in thinking that the same would be true for the Nexus.

"An iPhone"? Which iPhone? The 4S features dramatic tweaking to the camera speeds in various aspects. It's one of the things they heavily focused on during development. I just watched a couple video comparisons of the Nexus against the iPhone 4S and while the Nexus "appears" to have nearly no lag between pictures, I'm not convinced that this is anything more than an illusion. None of the videos I watched gave any indication of exactly how many photos each phone actually took. I just snapped a bunch back-to-back and had 16 photos in about 8 seconds. If I use Camera+ in burst-mode, it's significantly faster (5 per second actually). And let's face it… if you are going to take photos back-to-back, it would make much more sense to use something like Camera+ in burst mode, where you simply hold down the shutter button and release when done. And the iPhone 4S takes better pictures (more on that coming), so any speed improvements that the Nexus "may" have in reality also may well be at the expense of image quality. The photos taken by Camera+ in burst mode are reduced resolution, but that is what it takes to get it so fast. So that reinforces my question… what compromises on image quality did Samsung have to make to get that kind of speed? Again… every single unbiased independent expert comparison I have read shows the iPhone 4S having the best-in-class photo quality. Period. If you care to dispute that, show me differently. Don't tell me your opinion… it's not expert or unbiased.

And I never said I thought the Nexus itself was kludgy. I did say I've read that ICS has caught up to the iPhone 2G, and yes, I know the Galaxy Nexus runs ICS. It's actually the only Android phone I would consider, if not for that ridiculous size.

Stock, vanilla Google phone, no carrier branded software added, no gimicky third party GUI... just pure Google UI. It's fast. Very fast.

I don't dispute that. Stock is the way to go, no question about it.

As for lower pixel density, I'll just kind of laugh that one off I guess. It's a gorgeous screen. Output 1080 HD movies either streamed or saved, and you'd be blown away, trust me.

You go on ahead and laugh it off, but in the end… the iPhone 4/4S has text that looks like printed paper. I can also play (and for that matter shoot) 1080p video just fine on my iPhone 4S. As a personal preference, I don't generally watch videos on my iPhone, nor would I on any smartphone.

You can quote specs all you want, but it's real world use that matters. Besides, it's not just the pixel density which matters. It's the type of screen that matters more in this case. IPS vs. Super AMOLED.. hardly a contest. And you're really going to tell me that your super duper eyes can differentiate between 330 and 316 PPI ? Come on dude…..

Don't underestimate what my eyes are capable of differentiating. My career involves working with digital images and detail is something I am trained to assess and highly adept at discerning. Granted… I can't say I'd see the difference between 330 PPI and 316 PPI. But is the Galaxy Nexus really 316? *double checks* Oh yes… it is. Sort of.**

**Device uses PenTile technology. Its pixels consist of only two sub-pixels instead of three and the claimed pixel density is only achieved using subpixel rendering. In any case, the ppi numbers are not directly comparable.

Apparently the real PPI is closer to 200. As for IPS vs Super AMOLED, the faked resolution issue aside, S-AMOLED has much higher contrast ratios. IPS has better color accuracy and a brighter screen. Pick your poison. Neither is absolutely and uncontested-ly "better" than the other.

Lastly, those photos up on Cnet are a joke. Whom ever was in charge of taking those pics did an awful job, if that's even possible to do with a camera phone... It's easy to see that they used flash with the Nexus phone, while they didn't with the iPhone. That's the first flaw. Secondly, it's easy to see that the person also shot at different angles, and possibly used the enhance feature on the iPhone. Yes, different angles matter, because of how white balance and exposure is perceived.

So show me a roundup that portrays the Galaxy Nexus as shooting better photos. Go ahead.

No matter. My point is simply that it's easy to keep bashing the underdog when it seems the most popular thing to do. But then again, this IS an Apple forum... I think you've also got me misunderstood when it comes to the iPhone. I think it's an excellent phone, and moreover, an awesome camera. It's definitely more feature rich on the camera firmware side than the Nexus's cam is, but it really does get a run for its money on more than one front. I'd be more than happy with the Nexus if it were able to run the same apps as the iPhone! And there in lays the issue I have with Android phones in general.

LOL! Android is hardly an underdog these days. And I'm not bashing it. I'm bashing your highly flawed claim that the Galaxy Nexus "stomps" the iPhone. Ok.. maybe the iPhone 2G and 3G…

P.S. The whole "has finally caught up to the 2G" bit is really silly and easily misproven. Talk about FUD

Ok… misprove it then. I have read quite a few "unbiased" sources over the years showing that Android devices are more sluggish to touch inputs like "flicking" and "pinch to zoom", than the iPhone ever has been. I've actually seen videos of Android in action with fandroids fawning over the responsiveness while I'm like "Are you freaking kidding me?" I've certainly not been impressed by my own hands-on with androids others have. But I've also read that ICS is the FIRST version of Android that is pretty smooth in an iPhone-like way, thus I give it and ONLY it the benefit of the doubt. So go ahead… misprove it.

01-11-2012, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by lifeisabeach

LOL! For as long as I can recall (a couple years at least), you've been bleating the virtues of Android and how it's soooo much better than the iPhone. And yeah… you ARE biased, and rabidly so when you claim the Nexus "stomps" the iPhone by touting perceived advantages that are either purely subjective (i.e. 4G and the screen size) or patently false (i.e. panoramic software and touch-to-focus controls). Actually touch-to-focus has been in the default Camera app for at least a couple years now.

I challenge you to find anything more than me defending my own phone's capabilities, and not the entire Android platform. I've always been very blunt, but honest about this issue. It's when people regurgitate the same nonsense they hear from others without basing anything in fact, that I get a bit vocal. Thus my op here. My EVO is not kludgy in any way when I compare it to an iPhone, so that's where I'm basing my facts from. The Nexus only reinforces my views, and it's a shame that phone manufacturer's are always in such a hurry to pump out handsets that are just pieces of junk after another.

Sorry if I didn't put an "IMHO" after I said that the Nexu's screen trumps the iPhone's, but I guess that's what it really boils down to. Opinion. Guess I thought it was implied. I'll be more specific next time

"An iPhone"? Which iPhone?

Um... the 4s.

The 4S features dramatic tweaking to the camera speeds in various aspects. It's one of the things they heavily focused on during development. I just watched a couple video comparisons of the Nexus against the iPhone 4S and while the Nexus "appears" to have nearly no lag between pictures, I'm not convinced that this is anything more than an illusion.

I know how good the 4s' camera and the software is, trust me. I've already said that it's pretty awesome, and in some ways better than the one on the Nexus. You must have skipped that part. I could care less about video comparisons. I already told you... I'm speaking from first hand experience, and it's no illusion. It's NATIVE camera app shoots with less camera lag. But that may only be due to the fact that the iPhone's software wants to send each pic to the camera roll after every shot. If we're talking about third party apps, then it would be fairly pointles to try and compare them in that manner I supose.

And the iPhone 4S takes better pictures (more on that coming), so any speed improvements that the Nexus "may" have in reality also may well be at the expense of image quality. The photos taken by Camera+ in burst mode are reduced resolution, but that is what it takes to get it so fast. So that reinforces my question… what compromises on image quality did Samsung have to make to get that kind of speed? Again… every single unbiased independent expert comparison I have read shows the iPhone 4S having the best-in-class photo quality. Period. If you care to dispute that, show me differently. Don't tell me your opinion… it's not expert or unbiased.

The Nexus takes 5MP photos max vs the 8 MP of the iPhone. That already allows the buffer to empty faster. As far as quality goes, since you work in the field, you should absolutely know that the number of megapixels has ZERO to do with the 75 PPI jpg which will be output to the web or LCD on your phone. Only when we print does MP count matter. But you know this. Everything else is in the software. And software can be tweaked both manually and by firmware. I can take photos with both phones and get consistent results in terms of quality depending on the software used.

But let's say we stick to the native stuff. Of course we're going to see differences. Differences in white balance, saturation, contrast etc... I'll say this much about the camera app for the iPhone. Hands down best metering, plus the fact that you can do auto exposure lock is fantastic.

And I never said I thought the Nexus itself was kludgy. I did say I've read that ICS has caught up to the iPhone 2G, and yes, I know the Galaxy Nexus runs ICS. It's actually the only Android phone I would consider, if not for that ridiculous size.

I could care less about ICS. My EVO is just as fast without it. LOL.. 2G, there you go again. Ah well, guess you'd rather just take the word of others than actually find out for yourself. Granted, that's easier to do. No worries. You say ridiculous size, I say pick one up and see for yourself. It's light, feels very sturdy and not bulky in any way. Feels great in the hand and pocket.

You go on ahead and laugh it off, but in the end… the iPhone 4/4S has text that looks like printed paper.

Um, no it doesn't. It looks great, but if you think it looks like print on paper then, well..... I don't even know what to say about that. The only technology I've seen on an display that even remotely resembles print on paper is the Kindle.

I can also play (and for that matter shoot) 1080p video just fine on my iPhone 4S. As a personal preference, I don't generally watch videos on my iPhone, nor would I on any smartphone.

You might if you saw what video looked like on a big enough, gorgeous AMOLED 4.9" lcd! We were watching a streamed UFC match on the Nexus right from the Dropbox app the other day, and it was indeed stunning.

Don't underestimate what my eyes are capable of differentiating. My career involves working with digital images and detail is something I am trained to assess and highly adept at discerning. Granted… I can't say I'd see the difference between 330 PPI and 316 PPI.

After that whole "text looks like print on paper" bit, I'm not so sure man... Besides, that kind of detail boils down to the limitations of what the human eye is capable of physically perceiving/interpreting. I'm pretty sure that we've gone beyond the point of diminishing returns where pixel density and our eyes are concerned.

Apparently the real PPI is closer to 200. As for IPS vs Super AMOLED, the faked resolution issue aside, S-AMOLED has much higher contrast ratios. IPS has better color accuracy and a brighter screen. Pick your poison. Neither is absolutely and uncontested-ly "better" than the other.

Kind of hits the nail on the head. It's about perceived quality at that point. Both produce amazing results, no dispute there from me.

So show me a roundup that portrays the Galaxy Nexus as shooting better photos. Go ahead.

I don't need a roundup. In fact, at some point during the week, I'll try and do my own roundup. Plus, I didn't say it shot better photos. You keep putting words in my mouth. All I said was that the Nexus produced fantastic quality shots. I also spoke of how fond I was of the panoramic feature. How you got that I said it was better out of that, I'm not sure. Almost seems like you're trying to pick a fight, but I'd rather give you the benefit of the doubt. Re-read my post if you'd like, I never said that it was inherently better.

LOL! Android is hardly an underdog these days. And I'm not bashing it. I'm bashing your highly flawed claim that the Galaxy Nexus "stomps" the iPhone. Ok.. maybe the iPhone 2G and 3G…

If it's my opinion, which I clearly thought it was.. how is it flawed? Just sayin'... Hey, if you can nitpick, so can I.

Ok… misprove it then. I have read quite a few "unbiased" sources over the years showing that Android devices are more sluggish to touch inputs like "flicking" and "pinch to zoom", than the iPhone ever has been. I've actually seen videos of Android in action with fandroids fawning over the responsiveness while I'm like "Are you freaking kidding me?" I've certainly not been impressed by my own hands-on with androids others have. But I've also read that ICS is the FIRST version of Android that is pretty smooth in an iPhone-like way, thus I give it and ONLY it the benefit of the doubt. So go ahead… misprove it.

It's kind of hard to misprove anything to you since you're over there, and I'm over here. I'd offer to buy you a beer with our respective gear in tow, but you'd have to promise not to spill any on my phone...

Doug

01-11-2012, 12:13 PM

It's always funny to see the iPhone VS. Android debates on here. I love both for different reasons. If/when Apple finally puts 4G on their phones, I will probably stick with them. It's a huge deal breaker since I do a lot of tethering.

01-11-2012, 12:33 PM

My cousin has the Nexus and its not bad but even he admits his next purchase if Apple gets on the 4G bandwagon will be an iPhone especially after looking at my screen in sunlight versus his as we both split our work environment between indoor/outdoor.

01-11-2012, 12:43 PM

Wow, another Android vs. iOS debate. Who would have guessed? We haven't had one of these in...a day?

To say that this is a tired debate is a huge understatement.

01-11-2012, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by vansmith

Wow, another Android vs. iOS debate. Who would have guessed? We haven't had one of these in...a day?

To say that this is a tired debate is a huge understatement.

My half of the "debate" wouldn't exist if people in general wouldnt' say things like " I've never used an Android phone before, but I know it stinks and will never use one!"

And really, for me it's not so much this phone against that phone, they each excel at certain things. For me, it's more about keeping things in perspective. My biggest mistake is forgetting to put IMO after making statements such as "the screen on the Nexus trumps that of the iPhone's.". But then, I guess one can read into that in many ways. It certainly does trump it in terms of screen real estate. No debate there.

Interesting to say that the iPhone's screen is better in direct sunlight, when Super AMOLED is meant to be better in that regard. I'll have to compare this today.

I think the thing being missed here, in terms of a healthy debate, is that points are discussed in order that one may open the door for other options when choosing what to purchase.

Doug