01-11-2012, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Doug b

My half of the "debate" wouldn't exist if people in general wouldnt' say things like " I've never used an Android phone before, but I know it stinks and will never use one!"

And really, for me it's not so much this phone against that phone, they each excel at certain things. For me, it's more about keeping things in perspective. My biggest mistake is forgetting to put IMO after making statements such as "the screen on the Nexus trumps that of the iPhone's.". But then, I guess one can read into that in many ways. It certainly does trump it in terms of screen real estate. No debate there.

Interesting to say that the iPhone's screen is better in direct sunlight, when Super AMOLED is meant to be better in that regard. I'll have to compare this today.

I think the thing being missed here, in terms of a healthy debate, is that points are discussed in order that one may open the door for other options when choosing what to purchase.

Doug

Don't get me wrong they are both bad in sunlight mine is barely legible while his we have to strain to see things on his and that may not be a fair comparison as I would have to see another Nexus as we all know things very
its electronics after all.

01-11-2012, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Doug b

My half of the "debate" wouldn't exist if people in general wouldnt' say things like " I've never used an Android phone before, but I know it stinks and will never use one!"

I hope you didn't take my statement as directed specifically at you - it was more an observation of a general trend.

This debate could go in circles (I don't know why I'm saying "could" as if it doesn't already). There are detractors and defenders on both sides of the aisle and that will never change. This is why Doug is right in stating that each respective platform has its merits and downfalls for no system is ever perfect. Using myself as an example, there are days that I want to smack iOS and other days where it works without any problems.

01-11-2012, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Doug b

I challenge you to find anything more than me defending my own phone's capabilities, and not the entire Android platform. I've always been very blunt, but honest about this issue.

How about meeting my challenges before asking me to meet yours? However I do have very specific recollections of you bashing the iPhone 4 over the antenna even though you hadn't owned one.

It's when people regurgitate the same nonsense they hear from others without basing anything in fact, that I get a bit vocal. Thus my op here. My EVO is not kludgy in any way when I compare it to an iPhone, so that's where I'm basing my facts from. The Nexus only reinforces my views, and it's a shame that phone manufacturer's are always in such a hurry to pump out handsets that are just pieces of junk after another.

When I say "kludgy", I mean more than just touchscreen responsiveness. There's a lot about Android as far as spit and polish that it is severely lacking. I've seen comparisons of apps available on iOS and on Android, and while they usually look great in iOS, their counterparts look like crap on Android.

I know how good the 4s' camera and the software is, trust me. I've already said that it's pretty awesome, and in some ways better than the one on the Nexus. You must have skipped that part.

I could care less about video comparisons. I already told you... I'm speaking from first hand experience, and it's no illusion. It's NATIVE camera app shoots with less camera lag.

Dude… the iPhone 4S takes better pictures. That is the consensus in every single unbiased review comparing them I've seen. If you want to claim the Nexus's camera is better in some way, then PROVE it or link to a professional review backing it up. Till then, you are blustering. Compromising on quality across the board so you can tout the "wow" factor of taking pictures rapidly doesn't cut it in my book. Taking photos that quickly is a pretty limited need and can be accomplished if needed in iOS with an app like Camera+. And who cares whether or not the native camera or a 3rd party camera is doing the work? The entire point in even having 3rd party apps is to expand on the hardware's capabilities.

The Nexus takes 5MP photos max vs the 8 MP of the iPhone. That already allows the buffer to empty faster. As far as quality goes, since you work in the field, you should absolutely know that the number of megapixels has ZERO to do with the 75 PPI jpg which will be output to the web or LCD on your phone. Only when we print does MP count matter. But you know this.

Actually it's not photography I work with, but there are parallels. Anyway, yes, I'm well acquainted with the megapixel myth. The iPhone 4 was regarded best in class when it came out despite having "only" a 5 MP camera. Although it was prone to an overly yellow tint in some lighting circumstances. At any rate… the iPhone 4S blows that out of the water. It's not just the 8MP camera, but all the other hardware improvements and software tweaks that make it a much better camera.

Everything else is in the software. And software can be tweaked both manually and by firmware. I can take photos with both phones and get consistent results in terms of quality depending on the software used.

It's not ENTIRELY software. There is a lot more to the optics than the sensor, such as the backside illumination. A lot of high MP cameras suffer from excessive noise because the sensor blocks too much light. There's more to it…. ah here's something worth reading:
AnandTech - Apple iPhone 4S: Thoroughly Reviewed

I could care less about ICS. My EVO is just as fast without it. LOL.. 2G, there you go again. Ah well, guess you'd rather just take the word of others than actually find out for yourself. Granted, that's easier to do. No worries. You say ridiculous size, I say pick one up and see for yourself. It's light, feels very sturdy and not bulky in any way. Feels great in the hand and pocket.

The size is ridiculous. Case in point… my iPhone 4S feels a little small naked, but is just right with an Incase Slider. I recently got, and returned, a Grove bamboo case because, in part, it made the iPhone a little too bulky for my liking. And I have HUGE hands. I wear a size 15 wedding ring and in the course of my adult life, I have only run across 3 or 4 people with bigger hands/palms than me. XL gloves are actually a bit too small for me. I don't need to hold a phone the size of the Galaxy Nexus to know it'd be stupidly huge for my liking. If you like it, more power to you. But being bigger does NOT make it inherently superior or better. Even with my crazily huge hands, I wouldn't be able to operate that thing single-handedly in the manner I do now with the iPhone.

Um, no it doesn't. It looks great, but if you think it looks like print on paper then, well..... I don't even know what to say about that. The only technology I've seen on an display that even remotely resembles print on paper is the Kindle.

Well the Kindle's e-ink certainly looks more like actually ink-on-paper. THAT truly is perfect. As for what I mean on the iPhone 4/4S' display… you can't see the pixels "at a typical viewing distance" and yes… it looks as perfect as it could on an LCD. The text is just as sharp as printed text. Unless you stick the phone up to within a few inches anyway. The Galaxy Nexus, however, doesn't have text quite as sharp because of the way they fake the resolution and PPI into appearing higher than it really is. It's actually a lot like interpolation. It looks sharper than a normal display at 200 PPI would, but less so than one at 316 would.

You might if you saw what video looked like on a big enough, gorgeous AMOLED 4.9" lcd! We were watching a streamed UFC match on the Nexus right from the Dropbox app the other day, and it was indeed stunning

.

LOL! I'll stick to watching video on my 50" Pioneer plasma TV. Seriously… you like watching video on those tiny screens, have at it. Me…. bleah.

I have nothing more to add here. Running out of time anyway.

01-11-2012, 06:46 PM

For me Android depends a lot on the phone you buy.

Generally, I can't stand HTC Sense, which blurred my vision of Android somewhat when i did actually use it.

However, Ive now worked quite a bit with the Samsung Galaxy S II, which is a seriously nice phone, and for me, the only phone that would tempt me away from the iPhone. Screen is gorgeous, and the Android implementation they use is far better than Sense for daily use.

The Nexus phones are good too, but Sony Xperias, again have a horrible interface that i really detest.

These inconsistencies in the OS are the reason i don't use the OS anymore. There's too many types. Give me one, universal Android OS that goes on everything, and then I''l consider switching.

Oh, and get rid of all the bloatware rubbish please

01-11-2012, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by Doug b

My half of the "debate" wouldn't exist if people in general wouldnt' say things like " I've never used an Android phone before, but I know it stinks and will never use one!"

Ahhhh... actually rabbitjetta never said that he has never used one. You assumed that's what he meant. He may well have tried one belonging to others but never owned one, much like myself.

Anywho... enough picking of nits. I think we both have stated (and clarified) our own positions and intentions here adequately enough.

01-11-2012, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by vansmith

This is why Doug is right in stating that each respective platform has its merits and downfalls for no system is ever perfect. Using myself as an example, there are days that I want to smack iOS and other days where it works without any problems.

Truth! What would tickle me pink is if Apple would knock off this cat and mouse game with the jailbreak community and leave them be to make the most of the OS and hardware. I have a bit of respect for Microsoft for the middle-of-the-road route they're taking with Windows Phone 7 in this respect. (but just a little. Lol!)

01-11-2012, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by lifeisabeach

How about meeting my challenges before asking me to meet yours? However I do have very specific recollections of you bashing the iPhone 4 over the antenna even though you hadn't owned one.

If you call stating facts bashing, then busted I am! And what challenge would you like me to take now? You want me to get "pro" reviews on the interwebs? Come on now.. anybody with a web cam and sponsors can call themselves a pro. I'm more into real life situations. That's why I love Steve Huff. He's a photographer who loves to review gear. Really down to earth and doesn't get overly technical. He uses the stuff he reviews, and puts said things in to real life scenarios.

A buddy of mine said he'd lend me his phone for testing purposes at some point, so I'd be more than happy to shoot some samples. For the record however, and I've said this already on numerious occasions, (you've just chosen to ignore this) the iPhone's camera is tops. I'm fully aware of why the pic quality is so great aside from the software. It's got 5 lenses and shoots at a constant 2.4 aperture. The sensor is also much improved by allowing 33% more light on to the photo sites. That's a big deal for sure.

I never said that the Nexus took better or worse pictures. I Only said that I could get the same results via tweaking. And for the web, that's really all which matters for the most part. Would I rather have and use the camera from the 4s? Heck yeah. it's a beast.

When I say "kludgy", I mean more than just touchscreen responsiveness. There's a lot about Android as far as spit and polish that it is severely lacking. I've seen comparisons of apps available on iOS and on Android, and while they usually look great in iOS, their counterparts look like crap on Android.

I won't argue with that, and never did. iOS's bread and butter is the App Store. The apps are definitely polished and more professional. It's a big reason I'm really hoping that Apple makes the screen bigger on the iPhone.

It's not ENTIRELY software. There is a lot more to the optics than the sensor, such as the backside illumination. A lot of high MP cameras suffer from excessive noise because the sensor blocks too much light. There's more to it…. ah here's something worth reading:
AnandTech - Apple iPhone 4S: Thoroughly Reviewed

Already covered that part. I should have stated those things before hand, because they are certainly important to me. I'm a photographer, so don't think that my interest is purely technical!

The size is ridiculous. Case in point… my iPhone 4S feels a little small naked, but is just right with an Incase Slider. I recently got, and returned, a Grove bamboo case because, in part, it made the iPhone a little too bulky for my liking. And I have HUGE hands. I wear a size 15 wedding ring and in the course of my adult life, I have only run across 3 or 4 people with bigger hands/palms than me. XL gloves are actually a bit too small for me. I don't need to hold a phone the size of the Galaxy Nexus to know it'd be stupidly huge for my liking. If you like it, more power to you. But being bigger does NOT make it inherently superior or better. Even with my crazily huge hands, I wouldn't be able to operate that thing single-handedly in the manner I do now with the iPhone.

Guess we'll just agree to disagree here. My hands aren't huge by any standards, but not small, either. Have you actually held an Nexus? Honestly. Because it is SO comfortable to me. The iPhone on the other hand, is a bit too narrow for my tastes. And I also feel like there's too much screen real estate wasted on the home screen button and bezel.

Well the Kindle's e-ink certainly looks more like actually ink-on-paper. THAT truly is perfect. As for what I mean on the iPhone 4/4S' display… you can't see the pixels "at a typical viewing distance" and yes… it looks as perfect as it could on an LCD. The text is just as sharp as printed text. Unless you stick the phone up to within a few inches anyway. The Galaxy Nexus, however, doesn't have text quite as sharp because of the way they fake the resolution and PPI into appearing higher than it really is. It's actually a lot like interpolation. It looks sharper than a normal display at 200 PPI would, but less so than one at 316 would.

I guess I'll have to look more closely at a book or webpage on the Nexus then. Because from what I can recall, it looked just as sharp with no pixelation at the same viewing distance.

LOL! I'll stick to watching video on my 50" Pioneer plasma TV. Seriously… you like watching video on those tiny screens, have at it. Me…. bleah.

Oh Mr. Literal! No one actually likes watching video on such small screens, but if you WERE to watch something on one, the Nexus would be the one to go to, is what I'm saying. Besides, that's a bit like saying " who wants to play games on such a small screen?" Yet somehow, people just can't seem to put their small screened iPhones down. Yeeeaah, funny that!

I have nothing more to add here. Running out of time anyway.

Simpatico!

Doug

01-11-2012, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by Doug b

For the record however, and I've said this already on numerious occasions, (you've just chosen to ignore this) the iPhone's camera is tops. I'm fully aware of why the pic quality is so great aside from the software.

<snip>

I never said that the Nexus took better or worse pictures. I Only said that I could get the same results via tweaking.

I'm not ignoring anything, but I do question how you would get the same results with an inferior and superior camera. I guess it'd be the same way Ars Technica did it… by handicapping the high-end Canon that they pitted the iPhone 4S against.

Look... if you are skilled enough to get better photos out of the Galaxy Nexus than what those CNET people did using tweaks and alternate software, then that's fantastic. Heck, if it can actually get better photos than the iPhone 4S, then more power to it. Use what you like… like what you use.

I won't argue with that, and never did. iOS's bread and butter is the App Store. The apps are definitely polished and more professional. It's a big reason I'm really hoping that Apple makes the screen bigger on the iPhone.

It will never happen. No really.. never. First off, the compatibility of the iPhone with a huge range of docks is an advantage that Apple isn't going to overlook. A wider iPhone won't fit. Secondly… enlarging the screen by merely an inch or two would pose issues with existing app compatibility in terms of resolution and "fitting" on screen without interpolating. Regular iPhone apps do a very simple 2x zoom on the iPad (and the iPhone 4/4S actually, but automatically) rather than a complete fill-the-screen because the graphics would be distorted. Even if the dimensions were the same ratio, to make the app fit without interpolating, they'd have to use a pixel density somewhere less than the Retina Display but higher than the iPhone 3GS and older. I suspect that would leave a pixel density that leaves no room for quadrupling it in the future to jack up the res. And finally… judging from the sales volumes of the current models, I'd say it's very safe to say they don't NEED to make a bigger iPhone.

Guess we'll just agree to disagree here. My hands aren't huge by any standards, but not small, either. Have you actually held an Nexus? Honestly. Because it is SO comfortable to me. The iPhone on the other hand, is a bit too narrow for my tastes. And I also feel like there's too much screen real estate wasted on the home screen button and bezel.

There's nothing to disagree about here. You like the fit and feel of a larger device. I do not. This is purely a personal preference. I have not held an actual Nexus, but as I said… I returned an iPhone case because it bulked it up more than I was comfortable holding, and it was still far smaller than the Nexus. Another guy at work has an Otter Box on his, which was even worse. And one girl who rotates through my area has a Motorola Droid, and I don't like the feel of that either. It's highly unlikely that something yet bigger would meet my fancy. I actually laugh at those Samsung commercials with that guy waving that huge thing saying it's awesome. I swear it looks like a parody mocking the trend to make Android phones bigger and bigger by having someone wave around a mini tablet.

I'll side with you on the home screen button space, but not the bezel. Someone actually worked out how Apple could make a 4" iPhone as was rumored a while back without screwing with the dimensions physically. If I was a betting man, I'd say he nailed it and it's coming. The screen is 4" now from the bottom of the space where the home button is, to the top of the screen (before the speaker area). This guy postulated that Apple would make a capacitive home button. Apple could then use that space in a variety of ways, like for apps to place controls like audio pause/play (like what are hidden but accessible by the double-tap of the home button and swiping). Current apps wouldn't be allowed to simply expand (and thus become distorted) into that space, but could be developed in the future to utilize it in a way that wouldn't interfere with accessing the capacitive home button (perhaps it'd be a swipe away?). This is doable and in line with Apple's aesthetic sensibilities.

I guess I'll have to look more closely at a book or webpage on the Nexus then. Because from what I can recall, it looked just as sharp with no pixelation at the same viewing distance.

It's simply a technically impossibility for it to be as sharp as the "simulated" PPI implies it would be, compared to the Retina Display. Whether or not it's actually noticeable under certain usage scenarios is another matter entirely. Of course it's also a matter of personal perspective and if you are even looking for it. Heck… my wife can't tell the difference between 480p and 720p on our 50" plasma from 8 feet away. And I was perfectly fine with the resolution of my 3GS until the iPhone 4 hit and I got it for my wife.

Oh Mr. Literal! No one actually likes watching video on such small screens, but if you WERE to watch something on one, the Nexus would be the one to go to, is what I'm saying. Besides, that's a bit like saying " who wants to play games on such a small screen?" Yet somehow, people just can't seem to put their small screened iPhones down. Yeeeaah, funny that!

Well speaking for myself, I only play games on my iPhone that are developed with that screen size in mind. I don't know of any movies or TV shows that were filmed with a 4"-ish screen in mind. But again… this is personal preference. If I wanted to watch videos on the go, I'd get a tablet. Speaking of which, I actually like the size of the Kindle Fire for portability.

Anywho… enough is enough. Have a good one.

01-12-2012, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by vansmith

This debate could go in circles (I don't know why I'm saying "could" as if it doesn't already). There are detractors and defenders on both sides of the aisle and that will never change.

To paraphrase a popular film...

"He said something bad about my phone... So I put a jihad on him. And if you say something bad about my phone... I'll put a jihad on you too."

01-12-2012, 05:49 PM

Multi-quote posting fail. This thread is going to be closed soon. I equally hate both OS', but I love my iPhone because of the iOS simplicity with my computers.

01-13-2012, 12:52 PM

Maybe Android brings in new users who might not otherwise adopt, then those people get the bug and start realizing iPhone is the best.

My own tech addiction has followed a course like that.

01-15-2012, 08:35 PM

iPhones are nice but I will be sticking to android for my phones. I really like the the level of customization. I do like the features of the iPhones but I like making my phone the way I want it.

01-16-2012, 06:45 AM

don't stop now chaps!!! i have stopped checking drawngs in favour of reading this thread.

In fact i might even go out and by an Android thingy so i can see for myself, such is the grip of this discussion..

where's the other guy gone......i'll buy the pop corn, just please come back.....

J

01-16-2012, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by j0nb0y32

don't stop now chaps!!! i have stopped checking drawngs in favour of reading this thread.

In fact i might even go out and by an Android thingy so i can see for myself, such is the grip of this discussion..

where's the other guy gone......i'll buy the pop corn, just please come back....

Nah... we've already addressed the objections we each had to the others' statements. The facts are as well separated from opinion as they can be at this point.