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  1. #1

    OneMoreThing...'s Avatar
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    Post Lion USB sticks now available
    Lion USB sticks now available

    Apple's promised USB sticks for OS X Lion should now be available for sale, internal AppleCare documents show. These allow a person to install the OS without an available Internet connection and/or Mac App Store access. Apple is charging $69 for each stick, $39 more than the cost of a downloaded Lion upgrade....

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  2. #2

    pigoo3's Avatar
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    I'm curious to find out with the release of Lion USB stick...will the OS 10.6.8 requirement for Lion still be a requirement (if upgrading from the Lion USB Stick).

    My understanding is you needed to have the latest version of Snow Leopard (OS 10.6.8) to get the "Mac App Store"...so you could do the Lion download. But with the Lion USB Stick...you don't need the Mac App Store...so maybe upgrading from Leopard (or older versions of Snow Leopard) may be possible.

    This could also explain the significantly higher price of $69.99 for the Lion USB Stick (vs. the $29.99 Lion Mac App Store download)...since:

    - $29.00 for Snow Leopard Install Disk + $29.99 Lion Mac App Store download = $58.99

    Versus:

    - $58.99 (total cost from above) + cost of a "bare" USB Stick (say $10-$11) = $69.99

    So either method basically the same price.

    Just a theory/guess on my part...this is very new news. As far as I can tell...(at this very moment) the Lion USB Stick isn't even available yet for purchase at the Apple Store.

    - Nick

    p.s. Of course the "core 2 duo" hardware requirement for Lion still applies.
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  3. #3

    dtravis7's Avatar
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    Nick, I am very sure that the Downloadable SL requirement is both for the App Store and the upgrade. When you get the Memory Stick, you can do a clean install so SL would not be needed. I feel like you do that is why the higher price as well as the cost of the probably 8GB Flash Drive.

    Lion will NOT fit on a 4GB as some have stated. When you Partition a 4GB GUID, the GUID partition takes up just a few MB over what is needed to restore Lion to the drive and there is not enough room by about 10MB! I and others had to use an 8GB drive which as you know is a few $$$ more. Unless on the Flash Drive install they shrunk the install files by 10-20MB!

  4. #4

    pigoo3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtravis7 View Post
    Nick, I am very sure that the SL requirement is both for the App Store and the upgrade. When you get the Memory Stick, you can do a clean install so SL would not be needed. I feel like you do that is why the higher price as well as the cost of the probably 8GB Flash Drive.
    Hey...I was just thinking off the top of my head. I didn't remember seeing any other specific detail requiring SL for Lion (other than 10.6.8 to get the Mac App Store)...but maybe I missed something.

    Quote Originally Posted by dtravis7 View Post
    Lion will NOT fit on a 4GB as some have stated. When you Partition a 4GB GUID, the GUID partition takes up just a few MB over what is needed to restore Lion to the drive and there is not enough room by about 10MB! I and others had to use an 8GB drive which as you know is a few $$$ more. Unless on the Flash Drive install they shrunk the install files by 10-20MB!
    Hey...I guess it's up to Apple what size USB stick they use...obviously Lion will have to fit on the USB stick they distribute it on...because an internet connection is not supposed to be required to upgrade to Lion from the USB stick. Maybe Apple has some sort of "super duper" compression scheme that allows it to fit on a smaller USB stick. Of course if Apple has to use an 8gig USB Stick (as you detailed)...that would increase costs.

    I was also trying to come up with some sort of logical justification why Apple is charging so much more for the Lion USB Stick ($69.99) versus the Lion download ($29.99). And thought "maybe" if someone was able to upgrade from Leopard (OS 10.5)...then Apple may be "sneaking" all or part of the cost of a Snow Leopard disk into the cost of the Lion USB Stick upgrade. So either way (upgrading from 10.5 or 10.6 to 10.7)...a user is paying for the 10.6 upgrade.

    Again...I was just thinking out-loud when I saw the Lion USB Stick availability. I'm sure we'll hear more details soon.

    - Nick
    - Too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
    - Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some slow computer tips: Speedup
    - Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
    - Apple Battery Info. Battery

  5. #5

    MYmacROX's Avatar
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    Just give it a day or two. Someone will buy one, try to install it on a Mac with Lion and post on here about it. Or a blogger will try it and we'll see it show up in the Rumors-Reports forum.
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  6. #6

    TattooedMac's Avatar
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    I made a USB and installed it over a Leopard SuperDuper Backup. Did a clean install and works seamlessly.
    Not sure if it will be any different than the Apple ThumbDrive ??
    So to answer Nick atm it can be installed without Lion. Worked just like the DVD did. Using DU to erase then installed after that.

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  7. #7

    pigoo3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYmacROX View Post
    Just give it a day or two. Someone will buy one, try to install it on a Mac with Lion and post on here about it. Or a blogger will try it and we'll see it show up in the Rumors-Reports forum.
    You're absolutely right...this is what I'm expecting as well. We will see.

    - Nick
    - Too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
    - Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some slow computer tips: Speedup
    - Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
    - Apple Battery Info. Battery

  8. #8

    vansmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pigoo3 View Post
    I'm curious to find out with the release of Lion USB stick...will the OS 10.6.8 requirement for Lion still be a requirement (if upgrading from the Lion USB Stick).
    I doubt it. I'm sure the 10.6.8 requirement is only if you get it through the MAS. That's not to mention that Lion installed on my machine "without" 10.6.8 installed (I formatted my drive before installing it and the Lion installer didn't seem to care that it was being installed on a drive with no OS).
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  9. #9

    pigoo3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TattooedMac View Post
    I made a USB and installed it over a Leopard SuperDuper Backup. Did a clean install and works seamlessly.
    Exactly what I was thinking. I couldn't remember seeing anything specific why Snow Leopard (OS 10.6) was required...other than that you needed the "Mac App Store" which is only available on more recent updates of Snow Leopard.

    Since the Mac App Store or an internet connection is not needed to upgrade to Lion with the Lion USB Stick...I couldn't logically see a reason to need Snow Leopard (unless again I missed a small detail somewhere). Thus I was contemplating the possibility that someone could update to Lion from Leopard.

    - Nick
    - Too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
    - Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some slow computer tips: Speedup
    - Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
    - Apple Battery Info. Battery

  10. #10

    TattooedMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pigoo3 View Post
    Thus I was contemplating the possibility that someone could update to Lion from Leopard.

    - Nick

    Yea i see where your coming from. But remember we had a similar debate over the Leopard to SL and if you could install SL over Tiger which now we know is possible. Im not the programmer but unless they have a piece of code to tell it not to, like you i couldn't see why (and now know) it can be done.

    Cheers
    Dont forget to use the Reputation System if someone has helped you out !!!
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  11. #11

    pigoo3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vansmith View Post
    I doubt it. I'm sure the 10.6.8 requirement is only if you get it through the MAS. That's not to mention that Lion installed on my machine "without" 10.6.8 installed (I formatted my drive before installing it and the Lion installer didn't seem to care that it was being installed on a drive with no OS).
    Very interesting Vansmith. That would seem to be a "test" that would verify that SL is not "technically" required to install Lion. SL was just needed (prior to the release of the Lion USB Stick) to be able to download Lion from the Mac App Store.

    Of course in terms of cost $$$ (as I sort of outlined above)...at $69.99 for the Lion USB Stick...folks with Leopard (who could have upgraded to SL previously) are not really saving any cash versus folks who did upgrade to SL...and are now downloading Lion for $29.99.

    In many situations...mostly an academic discussion.

    - Nick
    - Too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
    - Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some slow computer tips: Speedup
    - Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
    - Apple Battery Info. Battery

  12. #12

    pigoo3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TattooedMac View Post
    Yea i see where your coming from. But remember we had a similar debate over the Leopard to SL and if you could install SL over Tiger which now we know is possible. Im not the programmer but unless they have a piece of code to tell it not to, like you i couldn't see why (and now know) it can be done.

    Cheers
    Who knows. Maybe this discussion is so far ahead of the curve...that maybe there will be some sort of EULA statement (in regards to the Lion USB Stick)...that will say that Snow Leopard IS required before updating to Lion.

    Or maybe the $69.99 price for the Lion USB Stick already takes care of that (the cost of SL already built into the cost of the Lion USB Stick)...if upgrading from Leopard.

    Just one more theory. Maybe the primary purpose (or one of the primary purposes) of the Lion USB Stick is for people who want to upgrade from Leopard to Lion directly (without the hassle of installing Snow Leopard prior to Lion). At $69.99...these folks in a way...are still sort of paying for Snow Leopard (versus the $29.99 price for the downloaded Lion version).

    - Nick
    - Too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
    - Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some slow computer tips: Speedup
    - Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
    - Apple Battery Info. Battery

  13. #13

    TattooedMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pigoo3 View Post
    Just one more theory. Maybe the primary purpose (or one of the primary purposes) of the Lion USB Stick is for people who want to upgrade from Leopard to Lion directly (without the hassle of installing Snow Leopard prior to Lion). At $69.99...these folks in a way...are still sort of paying for Snow Leopard (versus the $29.99 price for the downloaded Lion version).

    - Nick
    I like that theory.
    Will watch this space.

    Cheers
    Dont forget to use the Reputation System if someone has helped you out !!!
    Arguing with a zealot is only slightly easier than tunneling through a mountain with your forehead!!!!!
    MoTM ☆☆☆

  14. #14

    pigoo3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TattooedMac View Post
    I like that theory.
    Will watch this space.

    Cheers
    I'm going to "shut-up" now...and see what sort of info develops throughout the internet in the next few days!

    - Nick
    - Too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
    - Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some slow computer tips: Speedup
    - Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
    - Apple Battery Info. Battery

  15. #15

    vansmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pigoo3 View Post
    Very interesting Vansmith. That would seem to be a "test" that would verify that SL is not "technically" required to install Lion. SL was just needed (prior to the release of the Lion USB Stick) to be able to download Lion from the Mac App Store.
    I'm glad this was the case since otherwise, you'd have to install SL first before installing Lion in every situation (new HDs, reinstalls, etc.). Talk about a pain!
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