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  1. #1


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    Apple on iPad competition: Windows is 'big and heavy,' next-gen Android tablets are s
    Apple on iPad competition: Windows is 'big and heavy,' next-gen Android tablets are still vapor
    Apple on iPad competition: Windows is 'big and heavy,' next-gen Android tablets are still vapor -- Engadget

  2. #2


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    I don't think he has a leg to stand on when accusing other platforms of being expensive. Especially since apple is notorious for having overpriced computers as far as hardware goes.

    Proof:
    I built my custom desktop for $1500 (including monitor, keyboard,mouse etc.) and it has an i7 950, 6 gigs ram, 640 gb hard drive, and a gtx 470 graphics card.
    Equivalent mac is around $2400 and isn't nearly as good as far as hardware goes.

    That being said, I am still waiting to see what other tablets are out when the ipad 2 comes out to see if that is what i want or not. There will hopefully be a more substantial tablet market by then (motorola xoom).


    Not to be misconstrued, I do like apple products and their OS.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodyo View Post
    I don't think he has a leg to stand on when accusing other platforms of being expensive.
    He is referring to the tablet market here. Not desktops. Not notebooks. I think you missed the point of the article or did not read it if you think anything about desktop computers was mentioned by Cook there. You proof means nothing cause it is very off topic. Almost toll like.

    So now we all know what Cook was referring to we can move on.

    And Cook is spot on when he says the other tablet platforms are expensive. For the ipad price point the competitors just can not deliver as many features. So similar prices but many less features makes each feature relatively more expensive.

  4. #4

    Chris H.'s Avatar
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    I say Apple is on target with its pricing strategy. I mean dang, the Mac alone grew quite a bit last year.

    As far as tablets go, the iPad was the first *true* successful tablet. The pricing strategy of Apple's competition alone shows how cheaply the device is. The $200 tablet vs. the $500 tablet- the $200 tablet likely has a pressure sensitive screen (stylus type), has a lackluster camera, runs painfully slow on Android and overall feels like a cheap child's toy. The $500 tablet uses a glass touch screen, feels sturdy, runs smoothly and looks beautiful with iOS.

    And don't get me started on the Samsung Galaxy Tab. While it is similar to the iPad, and contains two cameras, it still (to me anyway) does not seem as fluid and smooth as the iPad. Now, that could be because the current version of Android on there wasn't nearly designed for tablet use, but you never can tell until something else happens.
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  5. #5


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    I don't find it irrelevant to the topic at all. Apple is notoriously overpriced (it's a fact, i'm not trying to troll anyone, i own several apple computers and acknowledge this). You are essentially paying for an OS that is not available to be loaded on other platforms. I don't see how apple claiming other products are overpriced and me disagreeing with their statement is really that off topic. I am allowed to disagree with you (and apple), aren't I? I find their statement a bit like the pot calling the kettle black based on the other products they have available.


    Let me also point out that the $500 ipad cost $260 to make. The fact of the matter is, apple can charge whatever they want for their tablet (and I would say they are charging quite a lot) because they are indeed the only "True" tablet out there and they can afford to do so. Do I have a problem with this? NO. It is quite obvious that the ipad is the only decent tablet that I would even consider buying at this point. I will admit that. But it is very early on in the market to really be saying anything about the competition. Especially since the true competing tablets aren't even out yet.

    I think when you consider the term "overpriced" you should examine what you are getting and how much it cost to make that product. The ipad is a great product, yes, but you are also being charged 2x the cost to make it. To give you a comparison, the iphone costs $188 and costs $200. See the difference?

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodyo View Post
    To give you a comparison, the iphone costs $188 and costs $200. See the difference?
    You are very wrong. The iphone does not cost those prices. Those prices you are quoting are subsidised prices. So in those cases you purchase the iphone at a lower initial cost and the rest of the price you pay off through your phone bill each month for the length of the contract. An unlocked iphone 4 with no contract in the US still costs $599 and $699.

    So with the subsidised pricing you do pay $199 and $299 initially as you say. But the rest of the cost is paid within the length of the phone contract you are with. Comparing subsidised and non-subsidised pricing is comparing Apples and oranges.

    Read the fine print of point 2 of this Apple page
    iPhone 4 & iPhone 3GS - Apple Store (U.S.)
    And then you'll see this.

    And yes some carriers are thinking of having the subsidised 3g ipad pricing too.

    ****************

    And yes Macs might have a higher total initial cost. But the total cost over the lifetime of the computer (taking into account, maintenance, software etc etc) is roughly the same as a good windows box. Feel free to prove me otherwise on this point. You have not done so yet. But if you can and want to I'm all ears and listening.

  7. #7

    Shikarnov's Avatar
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    Talking about costs in strict terms of hardware is somewhat disingenuous. There's a cost associated with research and development. There's a cost associated with production. There's a cost associated with software development -- and there is quite a lot of included functionality in iDevices.

    It's easy to see Apple charging an unreasonable margin, when really, their margins are merely healthy. And IMHO, even if the margins were inflated, Apple's absolutely deserving of those margins. They've been blazing all kinds of new trails in multiple industries during the past decade, and that's due to creativity, innovation, and savvy. Whole industries just follow Apple along like puppies.

    It's easy be the lost-cost provider when what you do is rip off other company's intellect -- and even then, most have to struggle and sacrifice in order to compete.

    Case and point: Kodyo, you cite your $1500 custom build as being cheaper than a comparable Mac. Based on the specs and price, I can only assume you were comparing against a 27 inch iMac with Core i7 (which, with a 1TB HDD and 8GB of RAM comes out to $2400). You talk about your raw specs, but what about build quality? What about monitor size and quality? Is yours an all-in-one unit? How much space does it take up on and under your desk? Are your peripherals wireless? And I don't think we even need to address aesthetics. Anyway, I'd be pretty surprised if your custom build (which, incidentally, has less disk space and RAM) really is so far removed from Apple's price when you compare the systems fairly and completely -- and include software in that comparison as well. When the difference is $900, you have to ask, where's the sacrifice?

  8. #8


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    @Shikarnov
    RAM and Hard drive space is so gimmicky in my opinion. Has anyone used more than 4 gigs of RAM at any point? I know how people shop for computers. They see the big number (MOAR RAM AND HD) and they say "hey, this one must be better than that one, it has more RAM." As far as the HD goes, I personally have never used more than 100 gigs. Both seem to me to be easy and cheap to upgrade and are mostly used to get people to buy a computer.
    Considering my computer has a better CPU and GPU and the same size monitor, I would still say that mine is considerably better and cheaper.

    As far as build quality, it's impeccable. I had 3 people who had built multiple PCs help me put it together. On top of that, none of the parts are low end quality to save on price. I bought the best RAM out and got a very good MOBO etc.
    The only thing I sacrificed was the Apple OSX and an Apple brand name. To some, that is a lot to sacrifice. I personally like having a super fast computer capable of playing any video game out and is great at multi tasking and movies at a low price. And although I love the Apple OS, I can't justify paying $1000 more for it.

    @the8hark
    I definitely see what you are saying now.

    But I digress, I don't want to turn this into a mac vs. Pc debate. I was only using my PC as an example of how apple is overpriced in many ways. From that, I don't really like them saying others are over priced since they are obviously the same. Not to mention it is a little early to say anything.
    For example, let's say the motorola xoom cost $400 to make and sells for $500, then obviously the ipad would be more overpriced.

  9. #9

    XJ-linux's Avatar
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  10. #10

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    Sorry Kodyo, but your whole hypothesis using a home built rig is faulty.

    If you're talking home built rigs, every single computer (over about $800-$1,000) from every single computer manufacturer, not just Apple are overpriced. There is not a single computer manufacturer that can touch the price of a middle to high end consumer computer for the price that we can build our own.

    #1. You're way off base because the thread and the article have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with what we know as computers. It is strictly about tablets. Maybe reading the thread and related article prior to posting might help here.

    #2. You're way off base because you can't compare hardware unless you're comparing "like" hardware. Apple does not build a conventional desktop computer. They build an All-in-one. Go check Dell or HP or Sony for their All-in-one computers and I believe you'll be in for a little surprise related to pricing.

    #3. You're way off base in relation to what makes something over priced. What makes a product over priced has to do with what it offers vs the price. It really has nothing to do with what it cost to manufacture.

    For example, let's say 'XYZ' product costs $400 to produce and sells for $500, while 'ABC' product costs $250 to produce and sells for the same $500. If product 'ABC' is 50% more capable of it's intended purpose than product 'XYZ', it is still the better bargain at $500 and in fact the 'XYZ' product is the one that is over priced. The mere fact that one manufacturer can produce goods for less than another, has absolutely nothing to do with whether that product is over priced.

    Here is a real world example in my business. I am in the business of commercial painting and wallcoverings. A typical homeowner pays around $15-$40 a gallon for paint. You'd think that I could get it cheaper right, when you consider I spend $25k or more a month for paint and you would be right - about $10-$11/gal for that $40 retail paint.

    But, I have 10 gallons of paint sitting in the warehouse, right now, that cost me $7,000. Yep, that's right $700 a gallon. I just installed 3 gallons of paint on a project earlier this month that cost me $4,200 - nope, that's not an error - it's $1,400 a gallon and that's before I pay for the shipping to get it here. You can't convince me either one of these two products cost the manufacturers more than $50 a gallon to produce. That makes both of them way, way, way, way over priced - Right?

    Well, I guess that depends on how you look at it. They're the only two making such a product. Both have been on the market for maybe a year. Their competitors are 3 companies that manufacture a specific type of wallcovering. A project that would cost $20,000 with one of those wallcoverings, can be done now with paint. Paint that runs $700 to $1,400 a gallon. That $20,000 wallcovering job can now be done for $12,000 even after I pay $1,400 a gallon for the paint.

    So, you tell me now. A product that saves the customer 40% of what the other option is going to run, is it overpriced based solely on what it cost the manufacturer to produce or not?

    Every time I see one of these, I see the guy that buys the Toyota instead of the Lexus, the Nissan instead of the Infiniti, the Ford instead of the Lincoln, the Chevy instead of the Cadillac.

    One is a reason of money, that... I think we all understand. Most of my friends can't afford anything but the $500 computer and preferably less if they can. The other is a lack of knowledge. My last two computers have been home built windows rigs as have many others since I built my first one over 15 years ago. Not because I don't see the value in a Mac and certainly not because I think a Mac is over priced.
    I cannot be held responsible for the things that come out of my mouth.
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  11. #11

    osxx's Avatar
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    i guess by the general consensus of how many iPads were and are being sold by the day
    the consummer feels it must be at the right price point. I hear constant stories of how a
    home built desktop can be built cheaper that is common knowledge I have yet to hear of
    a home built laptop of equal quality and asthetics.

  12. #12

    RONE's Avatar
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    Kodyo, you really missed the point of this article, and are now talking rubbish. Heard of R&D? Heard of advertising? I can't believe people still think comparing 'home-built' computers to all-in-one desktops is reasonable when discussing price.

  13. #13

    osxx's Avatar
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    Another factor in any homebuilt computer how much is your time worth? But to some it is
    a fun hobby but they rarely compare their rigs to anything but their closest competition
    or so my friend tells me.

  14. #14

    bobtomay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by osxx View Post
    Another factor in any homebuilt computer how much is your time worth? But to some it is
    a fun hobby but they rarely compare their rigs to anything but their closest competition
    or so my friend tells me.
    So true. During my hardcore years as a gamer and hardware enthusiast, only compared my rig with the rest of the overclocking crowd. There didn't exist an off the shelf system that could come close to our rigs. We were building rigs at about $2k or a little more that the manufacturers couldn't touch until you got up into their $5k line up.

    It still costs $2k+ to build a top of the line rig today. I find it sort of funny how this new breed builds a system that runs $700-$1,000 with low to middle of the road parts and then come around and brag about it. They do it here because they can't do it on any of the hardware enthusiast forums. Don't think I've ever suggested building a rig in this price range over the years versus just buying an off the shelf machine to any of my friends. The cheaper rigs, you can buy an off the shelf system and immediately upgrade the video card for less money than you can purchase all the parts for.
    I cannot be held responsible for the things that come out of my mouth.
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