05-25-2010, 07:04 PM

Personally I can live without flash. I run plug-ins to disable them in Firefox anyways, and I only temporarily allow them to run when I really need to see the content. Otherwise everything is blocked.

05-26-2010, 10:59 AM

I think Apple should let people decide what they want to use/watch on their equipment. We should be left to make up our own minds- i think this whole issue is a big drawback for Apple

05-26-2010, 11:15 AM

not many places use flash too too often that isnt a stupid advertisement.

with the other better options available for flash-like effects, flash is really falling short. not many web designers I know bother with it anymore, also its not google-searchable. thats a pretty big shortcoming since no content in the flash is searchable by a search engine.

I am pretty sure itll be completely phased out within the next year or so.

05-26-2010, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by HypnoDerby

I think Apple should let people decide what they want to use/watch on their equipment. We should be left to make up our own minds- i think this whole issue is a big drawback for Apple

Has not slowed their sales down any just look at the iPad shortages.

05-27-2010, 04:39 PM

Flash should never touch the iPhone...seeing what it does to Mac's.
However i do not blame Apple for not having a solution, i blame Adobe for not being able to release something useful.

05-28-2010, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by johnnyFIVE

not many places use flash too too often that isnt a stupid advertisement.

with the other better options available for flash-like effects, flash is really falling short. not many web designers I know bother with it anymore, also its not google-searchable. thats a pretty big shortcoming since no content in the flash is searchable by a search engine.

I am pretty sure itll be completely phased out within the next year or so.

Care to put some money on that ? We can put it in escrow and may the winner take the pot. In fact.. I challenge everyone here whom believes the same as you do, to put up or....

Ain't gonna happen.

Secondly, addressing your opinion that only stupid game sites or adverts are used for flash on sites. You're ENTIRELY DEAD WRONG. Period. There are legitimate professional photographers and videographers whom use Flash on their sites to make them more mainstream. I won't start quoting the usage of such said sites, as you can easily investigate such things yourself. Just because you personally have no need for such services, doesn't make them redundant.

But ya know.. I'm not even arguing against the death of Flash. Fine, let it die already.. but you guys haven't the faintest idea of what that means and what it's going to take. You're talking about a total restructuring of the web, as if it can be done over night. And that is my main point which I'll discuss more about down below after the next quoted response.

Originally Posted by Kamina

Flash should never touch the iPhone...seeing what it does to Mac's.
However i do not blame Apple for not having a solution, i blame Adobe for not being able to release something useful.

Um... nice FUD there bud. Can you and other's like you try for once to actually prove something without quoting someone else for proof ? "What it does to Mac's?" LOL that's hilarious. Nothing has EVER "happened" to either of my MacBook Pro's while running any sort of Flash site, application etc.. EVER. No slow down's, no huge resource hogging etc... So stop with the repeated mantra which you've been taught and have never even [possibly] experienced. You guys love to pretend that Flash consumes resources to the point of where it's impossible to do anything else while it's running. And you KNOW this is a lie.

And I've yet to have a "security issue" arise as an result from using Flash either.. All of these things may be "attributed" to flash on some level.. but I guarantee that there is more going on than a simple matter of visiting a website which has some Flash on it.

As for my earlier point about Flash dying. Ok, great. Let's say that Flash just totally disappears tomorrow. Now what ? You've got SO many issues to deal with before you can even begin thinking about having an alternative to Flash take over. You have the issue and debate about open source vs proprietary formats (Ogg vs some form of H.264), you have millions of products which will need to have source code (from scratch) whipped up, you've got millions of web sites that need to be re-coded to use which ever format will eventually prevail etcetera ..etcetera ... yada yada..

So... you're all waiting in LIMBO with NOTHING until at the very least, they decide which format it's going to be. And do you think that's going to take less than a year ??! Nice goin'.

In the end it doesn't matter. NONE of you will EVER get what you ask for, and if you do it's not a direct result of you having wanted it. What ever decisions take place in a board room, are made regardless of what you or I think. We have zero control at this point, and you should get used to knowing that. I am. All we can do is bicker about what we think, and it actually gets us nowhere. This is the same exact thread as the other thousand threads covering this topic. Nothing has changed or not changed because of us.

In fact... I think I'm going to vow to never talk about it again until something actually does change.

Doug

05-28-2010, 10:49 AM

its still not google searchable. a flash website on the internet essentially shows up as a zero. most of the better web designers I know have already steered away from it. While its an easy solution to a pretty website for a noob, most I know are using other options to get the same results, that are also google searchable. There will always be some websites that wont update and will stick with flash, however the amount of new websites using it will be a pretty sharp decline.

Also, lots of websites are looking to be mobile friendly, with the market share that Apple has and its stance on flash, I think that will very much so aid in its decline.

Im not trying to control a situation merely commenting and giving my opinion like you are sir. We will see what happens in time. I havent ever had issues with accessing any websites though, I dont really go to many flash sites other than Hulu.

05-28-2010, 12:51 PM

Apple (Steve Jobs) has been successful (and has failed miserably sometimes) by not listening to the market. Adobe Flash for all of its technical flaws is a market leader. Personally, I think Apple should support it, but...

It is his company. If I don't like it, I don't have to buy the product.

05-28-2010, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by johnnyFIVE

its still not google searchable.

I'm puzzled by this. Back when I worked on coding web sites, you could simply add all the keywords you wanted in the header of the HTML page itself, no matter what the actual page contained.

Is that not used anymore? After all, I stopped working in that area 6 years ago, but still it feels like this statement should be false (though my information is dated, which is why I'm asking)

05-28-2010, 02:54 PM

you can still do that but as I understand it content is given much much more weight.

depending where the content/keywords appear and how useful they are found to be will give you a much better standing than someone who just uses the metas and has it in the head.

I myself am no pro, but Id consider many of my friends to be pretty big deals in the industry. I used to love flash myself years ago and use it for everything until they pretty much steered me away from it and made me understand the downsides.

05-28-2010, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by johnnyFIVE

you can still do that but as I understand it content is given much much more weight.

depending where the content/keywords appear and how useful they are found to be will give you a much better standing than someone who just uses the metas and has it in the head.

I myself am no pro, but Id consider many of my friends to be pretty big deals in the industry. I used to love flash myself years ago and use it for everything until they pretty much steered me away from it and made me understand the downsides.

Keep in mind too that Flash didn't suck nearly as badly as it does now until Adobe bought it. At one point, it was a pretty lightweight plug-in - and that's when it started getting mass adoption. It's only in recent years with the advent of content protected streaming video that we've started to see major resource hogging with Flash.

Personally, I'd like to see Adobe's push into streaming video curtailed, but Flash kept as a medium for dynamic web content.

05-28-2010, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by johnnyFIVE

you can still do that but as I understand it content is given much much more weight.

depending where the content/keywords appear and how useful they are found to be will give you a much better standing than someone who just uses the metas and has it in the head.

I myself am no pro, but Id consider many of my friends to be pretty big deals in the industry. I used to love flash myself years ago and use it for everything until they pretty much steered me away from it and made me understand the downsides.

What you may have over looked, is the fact that a lot of Flash content on a website does not necessarily make the website its self, built from Flash. I personally dislike websites which are built entirely with Flash, they're gaudy and certainly tend to be a pain in the rear to navigate, especially if you're using mouse gestures.

What I was referring to was sites which use Flash slide shows in order to showcase a gallery or certain chosen prints. And most professionals will actually pay to have their website easily found in a Google or any other search, regardless of whether or not a site is using Flash. Keywording also helps, but is only a step in the overall process.

As far as my opining on this subject, vs your not ? Id' say that's being a bit disingenuous. Neither of us know actual facts on this topic since the outcome hasn't arrived yet. We're both speculating based upon incidents which have led up to this particular point. I'm simply challenging your opinions and logic, and am offering a cash settlement in the event that I'm wrong because that's how strongly I feel about being more right than you.

Doug

05-31-2010, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by lifeisabeach

... not because we all love it and want it... it's because we NEED it. Far too many websites demand it....

And therein lies the rub - to me it doesn't matter what the story line is - I just need it to work. When there's info I need on a site that I can't get, I have to go find another machine to get that info. As a toy, it doesn't matter, as a working tool, it matters.

05-31-2010, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by georgylb

And therein lies the rub - to me it doesn't matter what the story line is - I just need it to work. When there's info I need on a site that I can't get, I have to go find another machine to get that info. As a toy, it doesn't matter, as a working tool, it matters.

And that's fine and all, but the reality is that Adobe has yet to ship a working, usable version of Flash for ANY mobile device at this time (barring some odd Motorola something or another some time back). Sure… it's coming to Android 2.2 (after long delays despite Google's interest and active cooperation), but from all indications seen so far, it won't be working particularly smoothly, even on the latest and fastest in hardware. And since no one provides ongoing OS updates for their various Android phones, you will pretty much have to buy a new phone to get at it. So far, everyone apparently has been making do without it, working tool or not, and most will have to continue to make do without.

And more to the point… just how much good will that working tool do anyone if the battery is having the juice sucked out of it because Flash is so power hungry? I just got back from a trip halfway across the country and back. I don't know how the GPS app I was using is compiled, but it actually sucked down the battery faster than it could recharge. I had to switch to my wife's iPhone since she had a different GPS nav app that wasn't such a battery hog.

06-01-2010, 04:22 AM

I think it would be a fantastic thing if Flash proved to perform horribly on the latest mobile devices which are advertising its implementation on them. Why ? Because if it is true about what everybody has been saying, and we can prove once and for all that the chatter isn't just FUD meant to dissuade companies from supporting Flash, then Adobe will HAVE to own up to their shoddy workmanship, and get their butts in gear OR just bow out of the game and make room for something that WILL work.

Believe me, I could care less about Adobe's success with Flash if their only intention is pushing a less than ready product on a market which is obviously waiting for 'something'. But therein lies the problem. What else is out there NOW and ready for prime time ? Nothing. While we sit here and wait for patent and copyright pricing negotiations to produce anything which we the consumer can get into, the real salvage continues to sit as it always has, and we have no power or control over that. So again...

If Adobe can prove that Flash CAN work (remember there's no official stable release yet) on the new Android 2.2 OS, then the choice should absolutely be up to the user, seeing as how WE understand what the repercussions may be (battery life etc). I see absolutely zero reason as to why the iPhone or iPad couldn't have something in the general settings menu which was able to toggle Flash on and off.

Doug