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  1. #1


    Member Since
    Dec 12, 2012
    Posts
    8
    intermittent Battery messages Good, Normal, Service, Replace
    I am not sure if someone is know with this topic.

    My battery has 390 load cycles, 2008 later Macbook 5,1 13"
    I never had a noticeable decline in performance, until suddenly a month or 2 ago,
    Service battery appeared and battery started to drop my PC off without a even a sleep warning.
    Since, I have done several tests with battery expert, battery health and coconut battery.
    My battery is according to that most of the time 98% compared to new, the 3 cells give equal voltage so it doesn't look like a broken cell.
    The one day my battery (via those tools and via the mac system profiler) is good or normal, the other day it is replace now, then it is service now and it is definitely not consistant.
    I have tried calibrations and so on but no avail.

    It seems to me buying a new battery with the risk it isn't solved would be a waste of 129 euro's (and imitation batteries have inconsistant reviews;-)

    does anyone recognise this issue?


    Model Information:
    Serial Number: 6N84701TH13C
    Manufacturer: SMP
    Device name: bq20z951
    Pack Lot Code: 0000
    PCB Lot Code: 0000
    Firmware Version: 002a
    Hardware Revision: 000a
    Cell Revision: 0100
    Charge Information:
    Charge remaining (mAh): 4051
    Fully charged: Yes
    Charging: No
    Full charge capacity (mAh): 4051
    Health Information:
    Cycle count: 394
    Condition: Normal
    Battery Installed: Yes
    Amperage (mA): 138
    Voltage (mV): 12563

    System Power Settings:

    AC Power:
    System Sleep Timer (Minutes): 10
    Disk Sleep Timer (Minutes): 10
    Display Sleep Timer (Minutes): 10
    Automatic Restart On Power Loss: No
    Wake On AC Change: No
    Wake On Clamshell Open: Yes
    Wake On LAN: No
    Current Power Source: Yes
    Display Sleep Uses Dim: Yes
    Battery Power:
    System Sleep Timer (Minutes): 10
    Disk Sleep Timer (Minutes): 10
    Display Sleep Timer (Minutes): 2
    Wake On AC Change: No
    Wake On Clamshell Open: Yes
    Display Sleep Uses Dim: Yes
    Reduce Brightness: Yes

    Hardware Configuration:

    UPS Installed: No

    AC Charger Information:

    Connected: Yes
    ID: 0x0100
    Wattage (W): 60
    Revision: 0x0000
    Family: 0x00ba
    Serial Number: 0x00d03d47
    Charging: No

  2. #2


    Member Since
    Dec 12, 2012
    Posts
    8
    screenshot
    battery health

    Voltage in all 3 cells 419
    394 cycles
    99% of charge capacity still effectively 4051 compared to new 4100

    weird is that it says it is designed for 65535 cycles ;-)
    power average is 1.73 watts
    Power now is 1.51 watts
    voltage is 12.56

  3. #3

    pigoo3's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 20, 2008
    Location
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    34,822
    Specs:
    2011 13" MBP 2.3ghz, 8gig ram, OS 10.8.5
    Quote Originally Posted by bartinl View Post
    I am not sure if someone is know with this topic.

    My battery has 390 load cycles, 2008 later Macbook 5,1 13"

    It seems to me buying a new battery with the risk it isn't solved would be a waste of 129 euro's (and imitation batteries have inconsistant reviews;-)

    does anyone recognise this issue?
    The battery in this model MacBook was is designed for 300 charge/discharge cycles. Since you have 390 cycles…battery performance/life will start to decline.

    - Nick
    - Too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
    - Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some slow computer tips: Speedup
    - Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
    - Apple Battery Info. Battery

  4. #4

    pigoo3's Avatar
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    May 20, 2008
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    34,822
    Specs:
    2011 13" MBP 2.3ghz, 8gig ram, OS 10.8.5
    Quote Originally Posted by bartinl View Post
    ...weird is that it says it is designed for 65535 cycles ;-)
    The computer (Coconut Battery) is probably receiving bad information from the battery…which wouldn't necessarily be surprising…since you are also getting the "Good, Normal, Service, Replace" messages as well.

    - Nick
    - Too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
    - Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some slow computer tips: Speedup
    - Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
    - Apple Battery Info. Battery

  5. #5

    dawson1112's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 29, 2012
    Posts
    157
    Quote Originally Posted by pigoo3 View Post
    The battery in this model MacBook was is designed for 300 charge/discharge cycles. Since you have 390 cycles…battery performance/life will start to decline.

    - Nick
    exactly ........The battery cycle gods have been good to him lol.

    I am actually surprised OSX didn't start howling at him to service battery soon 100 cycles ago lol.


    I don't own a mac,,, but I did stay at a holiday inn last night.

  6. #6

    pigoo3's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 20, 2008
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    Specs:
    2011 13" MBP 2.3ghz, 8gig ram, OS 10.8.5
    @bartinl….before running out and buying a new battery…first try doing an "SMC Reset":

    Intel-based Macs: Resetting the System Management Controller (SMC)

    - Nick
    - Too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
    - Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some slow computer tips: Speedup
    - Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
    - Apple Battery Info. Battery

  7. #7

    pigoo3's Avatar
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    May 20, 2008
    Location
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    34,822
    Specs:
    2011 13" MBP 2.3ghz, 8gig ram, OS 10.8.5
    For anyone interested where this 300 & 1000 battery cycle info comes from:

    - 300 cycle (user replaceable batteries)
    - 1000 cycle (non-user replaceable batteries)

    …here is the Apple document that explains it:

    Mac notebooks: Determining battery cycle count

    - Nick

    p.s. There actually seems to be a few 500's as well.
    - Too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
    - Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some slow computer tips: Speedup
    - Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
    - Apple Battery Info. Battery

  8. #8

    pigoo3's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 20, 2008
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    34,822
    Specs:
    2011 13" MBP 2.3ghz, 8gig ram, OS 10.8.5
    - Too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
    - Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some slow computer tips: Speedup
    - Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
    - Apple Battery Info. Battery

  9. #9

    dawson1112's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 29, 2012
    Posts
    157
    The best advice I can give someone to keep there batteries as long as possible in good condition is to never short cycle them . A lot of the time pple will charge the battery to 100 or 95 % then take the charger off and use it till it hits 40 or 50% . If your gonna use the unit on the battery then let it charge to 100% and use it till it gives you a warning to plug in the charger or at least let it go down to 15 or 20 %. And once a month apple recommends you completely discharge the battery by letting go to sleep from a low battery and allow it to sleep for 5 hrs or more before you plug it back in. Then let it charge to 100% and leave it plugged in for a few hrs after it reaches 100%.

    Remember each time you plug in your charger and it starts charging, the battery considers this a cycle. regardless of weather or not it was 80% or 10% when it started charging.


    I don't own a mac,,, but I did stay at a holiday inn last night.

  10. #10

    pigoo3's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 20, 2008
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    Specs:
    2011 13" MBP 2.3ghz, 8gig ram, OS 10.8.5
    Quote Originally Posted by dawson1112 View Post
    The best advice I can give someone to keep there batteries as long as possible in good condition is to never short cycle them.
    I can kind of see the logic in this…unfortunately Apple doesn't seem to have a specific recommendation (ok, good, or bad) regarding "short-cycling".

    Quote Originally Posted by dawson1112 View Post
    Remember each time you plug in your charger and it starts charging, the battery considers this a cycle. regardless of weather or not it was 80% or 10% when it started charging.
    Not exactly. Yes…each time the charger is plugged in, it starts recharging the battery…but this does not mean a full battery cycle (according to this Apple document):

    Mac notebooks: Determining battery cycle count

    "About Battery Cycles: A charge cycle means using all of the battery’s power, but that doesn’t necessarily mean a single charge. For instance, you could use your notebook for an hour or more one day, using half its power, and then recharge it fully. If you did the same thing the next day, it would count as one charge cycle, not two, so it may take several days to complete a cycle."


    Also…many Apple notebooks are programmed to avoid very short charge/discharge cycles. Meaning that if the battery has only been discharged 1-7% (93-99% of total charge remaining)...depends on computer model…then if the notebook is plugged in via the charger…it will not begin charging until the battery charge dips below this threshold:

    Mac notebooks: Battery may not show a full charge in Mac OS X

    - Nick
    - Too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
    - Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some slow computer tips: Speedup
    - Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
    - Apple Battery Info. Battery

  11. #11


    Member Since
    Dec 12, 2012
    Posts
    8
    hi pigoo3, many thanks for reply. ok.... So it is normal that the messages can shift forward and backward and that battery checks are actually not measuring the health (even if they are called " Battery health" ;-)

    I expected the battery to first show loss in performance rather than completely unreliable from one day to another :-(

  12. #12

    pigoo3's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 20, 2008
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    34,822
    Specs:
    2011 13" MBP 2.3ghz, 8gig ram, OS 10.8.5
    Quote Originally Posted by bartinl View Post
    hi pigoo3, many thanks for reply. ok.... So it is normal that the messages can shift forward and backward and that battery checks are actually not measuring the health (even if they are called " Battery health" ;-)

    I expected the battery to first show loss in performance rather than completely unreliable from one day to another :-(
    Did you try the "SMC" reset as suggested?

    - Nick
    - Too many "beachballs", read this: Beachballs
    - Computer seems slower than it used to? Read this for some slow computer tips: Speedup
    - Almost full hard drive? Some solutions. Out of Space
    - Apple Battery Info. Battery

  13. #13


    Member Since
    Sep 10, 2011
    Posts
    1,805
    Quote Originally Posted by dawson1112 View Post
    The best advice I can give someone to keep there batteries as long as possible in good condition is to never short cycle them . A lot of the time pple will charge the battery to 100 or 95 % then take the charger off and use it till it hits 40 or 50% . If your gonna use the unit on the battery then let it charge to 100% and use it till it gives you a warning to plug in the charger or at least let it go down to 15 or 20 %. And once a month apple recommends you completely discharge the battery by letting go to sleep from a low battery and allow it to sleep for 5 hrs or more before you plug it back in. Then let it charge to 100% and leave it plugged in for a few hrs after it reaches 100%.

    Remember each time you plug in your charger and it starts charging, the battery considers this a cycle. regardless of weather or not it was 80% or 10% when it started charging.
    Hello,
    Sorry I came to this thread late. There are some very common misunderstandings about recharging batteries. It is generally accepted within the battery industry that Lithium Ion (and/or Polymer) batteries benefit from shorter charging periods and do not need to be fully charged.

    The crude rule of thumb is that a charge/discharge cycle is the sum of all those partial charges from depths of discharge which add up to the notional 100% full charge..so a charge from 90% is only 10% and one from 60 % is 40% and so on.

    The shorter the Depth of Discharge (DoD) the longer the battery will last because it is less stressful and exhibits a lightness of use rather than maxxing out the cells out and whacking them with a hefty charge. Partial discharge on Li-ion is no problem as there is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles to prolong life, other than to calibrate the fuel gauge on a smart battery(e.g. MBP) occasionally.

    So the interesting thing is that the number of discharge cycles achievable when charging frequently from, for example, a 10 % DoD is approximately 10 times that of charging from 100% DoD.

    This just isn't practical for most people but if you could charge from 50% DoD on a regular basis you could expect 3 times (1200 to 1500) the number of discharge/charge cycles from your battery as opposed to charging from 100% DoD (300 to 500).

  14. #14


    Member Since
    Dec 12, 2012
    Posts
    8
    Hi Nick, i will now, many thanks for pointing out, I'll do that and give the results back first ;-)

  15. #15


    Member Since
    Dec 12, 2012
    Posts
    8
    Pendlewitch, superd info, very appreciated. Any chance your work related in this field?

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