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Apple Desktops Discussion of Apple's desktop machines including Mac Pro, iMac, Power Mac, and mini

dual 2.5GHz G5 cooling system


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Avalon

 
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For those who would like to know how the liqhuid cooling system of the latest G5 works, check:

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=508

Mainly, it works just the same way than the liquid cooling system of a car.

Nevertheless, I still am a little sceptical about putting a water cooling system in a computer...just one little leak, and the computer is dead...
:eek:
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Liquid-cooling is, and has been, a very common practice among the over-clocking community. If executed correctly, it's quite a reliable, efficient, and relatively inexpensive method of heat removal.

As heat becomes more of an issue, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple began incorporating more advanced cooling methods (e.g., Peltier, phase change, etc.) Not only would it allow higher speeds with less heat, but I'd imagine it would be somewhat of a marketing advantage as well.

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this is easier:

Quote:
Diagrams detail Apple's new liquid cooling system

By Katie Marsal
Published: 10:00 AM EST

Last week Apple Computer, Inc. introduced its most powerful Power Mac model to date, which sports two 2.5GHz G5 processors and a nifty liquid cooling system (LCS). Curiosity surrounding the new LCS is running high as Apple officials have recently reiterated warnings that other G5 products from the company remain a long-shot due to G5 heat issues.

Aiding some of the curiosity, sources have recently provided AppleInsider with side and rear-view diagrams of the new Apple LCS, which detail some of its many components.


Liquid Cooling System Side View


Descriptions

1. G5 processor at point of contact to the heatsink.
2. G5 processor card from IBM
3. Heatsink (also referred to as a 'waterblock')
4. Cooling fluid output from the radiator to the pump
5. Liquid cooling system pump
6. Pump power cable (usually connected to the main logic board, but repositioned in the above diagram)
7. Cooling fluid radiator input from the G5 processor
8. Radiant grille
9. Airflow direction


Liquid Cooling System Rear View


Descriptions

1. Liquid cooling system pump
2. G5 processors
3. Radiator output
4. Radiator
5. Pump power cable
6. Radiator input


In a recently published self-training course on the new line of Power Mac G5 computers, Apple confirms that all models feature IBM's 970FX PowerPC G5 processor.
Attached Images
File Type: gif g5lcs1.gif (42.5 KB, 69 views)
File Type: gif g5lcs2.gif (83.0 KB, 69 views)
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Avalon

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Padawan
Liquid-cooling is, and has been, a very common practice among the over-clocking community. If executed correctly, it's quite a reliable, efficient, and relatively inexpensive method of heat removal.

As heat becomes more of an issue, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple began incorporating more advanced cooling methods (e.g., Peltier, phase change, etc.) Not only would it allow higher speeds with less heat, but I'd imagine it would be somewhat of a marketing advantage as well.
I agree with you, and with the growing speed of CPUs, fan ventilation just isn't efficient enough, or would get unbearable loud. It's just that the cooling liquid is based in water, which, as we all know, is devastating for every electric circuit. If it's well done, it will work perfectly and is a good thing... until one of the little hoses might have a failure which doesn't get noticed, and after a year breaks, kills the computer and, if sitting on a desk, can be dangerous for the user.
I'm not against liquid cooling in general, but I would like them to use a liquid (or maybe a gas?) that's not harmful for circuits and the environment. Or better, researching on other alternatives. As you mentioned, a Peltier could work nice, but it needs a lot of power on itself and generates a lot of heat.
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If the previous models was anything to go by, the piping in the new G5 liquid cooler are made from the same materials such as de-ionized copper or maybe aluminum and not regular rubber or a poly-carbonate or thermal plastics found in common PC systems. If this is the case, there shouldn't be a problem with leakages. Provided that every component passes a strict quality control.

In the pass, Apple have always use some sort of silver metal tubing to cooler particular components on the logic board and I expect in the New G5's cooler there is no exception.









The use of copper tubing may sound efficient, and cost effective but over time there will be deposits at a particular point in the flow path, caused by oxidation from the oxygen molecules found in water. The build-up of copper is progressive, and leads to flow restriction in the heatsink, which of course leads to catastrophic consequences in the system. But by the time this becomes most serious users would have already upgraded to the newer machine with a more refined cooling method.

However, in regards to water. It still remains to be the best and cheapest substance for heat transfer as it rapidly flows and dissipate heat though the radiator. Maybe later as the heat becomes too much, they'll consider using a non toxic chemical coolant. And a safe gas? Such as nitrogen or liquid nitrogen, i expect will never be used as there are too many unanswered questions regarding it's safety. Sure. I'll be alright and fairly safe, if people didn't rip apart their systems in the quest to justify curiosity. As this guy did with his G5.

Image source: dabaer
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File Type: jpg Image-86B5B3FD5A4611D8.jpg (32.8 KB, 66 views)
File Type: jpg Image-86B6A1EE5A4611D8.jpg (27.8 KB, 66 views)
File Type: jpg Image-86B610AB5A4611D8.jpg (67.4 KB, 66 views)
File Type: jpg Image-86B625595A4611D8.jpg (40.0 KB, 67 views)
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WOW! Great pics! Thanks hype.it
Which G5 is this?
And thanks also for your detailed explanation. Concerning copper oxydation, I don't think it's a biig issue, because it will be a very slow process. The liquid cooling system is a closed system, with no air in it, just liquid. A heating system in a house (which is often made out of cupper tubes with water running through) does very rarely get cluttered by copper oxydation. And, as car manufacturers do, they surely will not put simple tap water in that system, but demineralized H2O with anti-oxydation additives, maybe some other additives too to help the heat dissipation.
The problem is not only the tubing itself, but more the junction of the different parts. These are the first to corrode and leak (in the case of copper tubes).
Anyway, I just said that I'm generally sceptic concerning the combination water/electricity...but I'm sure Apple's engineers did a good job.
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and that's got to be a conversation piece - "My computer's quiet because there are no fans." "really?" "yup - about a gallon of water though running through this bad boy" "hrm...Apple computer...eh?"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus
and that's got to be a conversation piece - "My computer's quiet because there are no fans." "really?" "yup - about a gallon of water though running through this bad boy" "hrm...Apple computer...eh?"
Well, there are still fans, otherwise there'd be no airflow to cool the radiator. Normally though, the fans used are smaller/quieter than the ones that would otherwise be necessary to air-cool the same processor.

If you're really interested in liquid cooling, I'd definitely suggest visiting Overclockers.com. As I've mentioned, PC overclockers have been using liquid cooling systems for a long time (in fact, my brother somewhat recently installed a liquid cooling system on his OC'd AMD machine) I'm sure with a little creativity and some modifying/fabricating, you could put together a liquid cooling system for just about any tower-based Mac.

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