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Apple Desktops Discussion of Apple's desktop machines including Mac Pro, iMac, Power Mac, and mini

Best way to upgrade Dual 500 G4


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thinkbible
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I have a PowerMac G4 (M7893LL/A) with dual 500 processors. I am running X and Classic con-currently (ie: at the same time) which is one of the reasons I bought this particular used machine (ebay). It works great but now I'm alarmed that I won't even be able to play the new Myst IV game (Revelation) because it requires 667 mHz minimum. I guess dual 500's won't work.

I have to retain the feature of running OS X and Classic at the same time. What's the best way for me to upgrade to around 1000mHz? Can I get a 3rd party processor card, used processor, or should I just look for another used dual system machine?
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Avalon

 
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Well, the best way would have been to buy a new dual 1.25 G4 MDD, the last and fastest Mac that can still boot OS9. But I guess the reason why you bought a used one was a budget question...

For CPU uprades (single and dual) check following links:

www.powerlogix.com

www.sonnettech.com

They have all kind of speeds, depending of course of how much you can spend.
Another good choice as a used Mac would have been Quicksilver. The problem is that most Macs are simply overpriced on ebay.
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thinkbible
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Actually.. I thought my G4 500 was a good deal...
Money is a BIG factor cause I'm out of work right now...

Another question..
My 5 yr old old PowerBook G4 400 came with OS X (early version). I tired it on the PowerBook and it was so slow I couldn't use it and I had to reboot between OS X and Classic. With my PowerMac G4 500 the two systems run concurrently which I love. What determines "dual boot" (can run both but not at same time) vs. Classic running with X (running at same time). Is it the version of OS X???
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Avalon

 
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Well, your dual G4 IS still good...except for gaming

Concerning your Powerbook, how much RAM do you have? And also a system upgrade to 10.3 would be a good idea. A friend of mine has a Powermac G4 450Mhz (single) that had 10.1 installed. it was very sluggish and slow. After I upgraded it to 10.3 (and 768MB Ram instead of 256MB) it runs pretty smooth.

"Dual boot" means you can boot the machine with either OS 9 or OS X.
Running Classic in Mac OS X is actually running OS 9 in an emulator, which also is memory hungry, and some OS 9 software doesn't run good or at all in Classic mode.
If you want to work properly with an OS 9 application, especially a game, boot the computer in OS 9. You will see that performance is much better.

The more recent Macs cannot dual-boot anymore, they can only run OS 9 in Classic mode. This has nothing to do with the OS X version, but with the hardware.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkbible
I have a PowerMac G4 (M7893LL/A) with dual 500 processors. I am running X and Classic con-currently (ie: at the same time) which is one of the reasons I bought this particular used machine (ebay). It works great but now I'm alarmed that I won't even be able to play the new Myst IV game (Revelation) because it requires 667 mHz minimum. I guess dual 500's won't work.
Well, I'm not much of a computer gamer (I use my game consoles for that), so I'm not positive just what Myst will require. However, I'd imagine that you'll be able to play it on your system. There are a few upgrades that should help out and shouldn't cost too much.

First, I'd probably upgrade the video card, if you haven't already. I think that will be the real limiting factor when trying to play newer games. The new cards are faster and have more video RAM, which should make a big difference with games.

Next, you may want to invest in a bit more system memory, although your specs indicate that you have quite a bit already. Every little bit helps, especially when running both OS's simultaneously.

Both of these upgrades should be relatively inexpensive, but if you find that you're still not satisfied with the machine's performance, you can upgrade the processors. Keep in mind that processor upgrades aren't cheap though, so you might want to do some research and shop around (I've found many good deals on eBay that have saved me a great deal of money). Either way, I definitely don't think you have to give up on your machine just yet.

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thinkbible
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Purchased a new video card from ebay last night. (Radeon 8500 64 meg)

Actually.. I'm quite happy with the performance of my G4. The only reason I'm thinking about upgrading processor speed is because the newer games need 667 MHz and up to run. And I have gotten really conflicting info on whether these will even run on my dual 500 machine. Some people say yes, some people say no. The companies have not responded yet.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon
Well, your dual G4 IS still good...except for gaming

Concerning your Powerbook, how much RAM do you have? And also a system upgrade to 10.3 would be a good idea. A friend of mine has a Powermac G4 450Mhz (single) that had 10.1 installed. it was very sluggish and slow. After I upgraded it to 10.3 (and 768MB Ram instead of 256MB) it runs pretty smooth.

"Dual boot" means you can boot the machine with either OS 9 or OS X.
Running Classic in Mac OS X is actually running OS 9 in an emulator, which also is memory hungry, and some OS 9 software doesn't run good or at all in Classic mode.
If you want to work properly with an OS 9 application, especially a game, boot the computer in OS 9. You will see that performance is much better.

The more recent Macs cannot dual-boot anymore, they can only run OS 9 in Classic mode. This has nothing to do with the OS X version, but with the hardware.

Just wanna make a correction. It's infact nothing to do with they physical hardware itself. It's more in the line that the current version of Apple's open firmware have prevented it from booting. But one who's in the know can edit the firmware if they so desire.

Apple+Option+O+F = Enter the Open Firmware command line.


Caution: Mess it up and your system will refuse to startup. You've been warned. Not sure where you stand regarding warranty cover.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon
Well, your dual G4 IS still good...except for gaming

Concerning your Powerbook, how much RAM do you have? And also a system upgrade to 10.3 would be a good idea. A friend of mine has a Powermac G4 450Mhz (single) that had 10.1 installed. it was very sluggish and slow. After I upgraded it to 10.3 (and 768MB Ram instead of 256MB) it runs pretty smooth.

"Dual boot" means you can boot the machine with either OS 9 or OS X.
Running Classic in Mac OS X is actually running OS 9 in an emulator, which also is memory hungry, and some OS 9 software doesn't run good or at all in Classic mode.
If you want to work properly with an OS 9 application, especially a game, boot the computer in OS 9. You will see that performance is much better.

The more recent Macs cannot dual-boot anymore, they can only run OS 9 in Classic mode. This has nothing to do with the OS X version, but with the hardware.

Just wanna make a correction. It's infact nothing to do with they physical hardware itself. It's more in the line that the current version of Apple's open firmware have prevented it from booting. But one who's in the know can edit the firmware if they so desire.

Apple+Option+O+F = Enter the Open Firmware command line.


Caution: Mess it up and your system will refuse to startup. You've been warned. Not sure where you stand regarding warranty cover.
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Avalon

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hype.it
Just wanna make a correction. It's infact nothing to do with they physical hardware itself. It's more in the line that the current version of Apple's open firmware have prevented it from booting. But one who's in the know can edit the firmware if they so desire.
I didn't know that. But what I know is that the OpenFirmware is not simply editable by entering it. It's in a FlashROM, like the BIOS on a PC. You can edit in fact the NVRAM via OpenFirmware, and do some other checks about the hardware.

I have one of those last G4 Powermacs that are OS9-bootable(MDD 2003, after the MDD FW800), and what's for sure is that it can only run stable with the OS9 delivered with it, on the system restore disk.
Because I tried to install an OS9 not delivered with a machine, the problem was that some of the hardware wasn't recognised and didn't work properly. I did some tweaking around by using some extensions of the original OS9, and managed to recognise most of the hardware, nevertheless, it never really worked properly.

If it is only an OpenFirmware setting, why did Apple sell those OS9 bootable MDDs, after the FW800 MDDs which were not OS9-bootable?? They could have simply changed the settings of the FW800, if it was that easy...
The last G4 Powermacs were nothing else than the same mainboards as the pre-FW800 modell, running at 167MHz. The FW800 has a different mainboard, that wasn't meant to be supported by OS9.
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MoltenLava
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My view on the computer upgrade has changed in recent years. I used to advocate and personally did a lot of upgrades on my home computers, CPU, videocard, memory, motherboard, disk, videocard, you name it. I don't do that any more. I don't think it's cost effective.

In the earlier years, the computers were very expensive. (I'm talking about 10 years ago) You don't just go out and buy a new machine when it breaks down. You fix it and upgrade it, and pamper it so it can last a very long time.

The computer has become more of a commodity. The computer price hasn't really gone up. Considering inflation, the relative price actually came down! Now everyone has one or more computers. If you go to eBay, you can buy previous generation computers very cheap.

To make the long story short, I'd rather sell my computer on eBay and get a faster one than trying to upgrade my old computer. I'm sure you are very familiar with this process as you mentioned you bought yours on eBay.

If you take old computer and try to upgrade various components to make it faster, you'll realize that it's actually cost effective to sell and buy a faster computer. That's partly because the sum of components cost more than the computer itself, and there are a lot of components.

For example, you have a dual 500MHz. It has 100MHz bus with PC100 memory. (or PC133, but my point being it's older technology) It has maybe Rage 128 or NVidia MX2. It probably has DMA33 or DMA66 disk controller with 5400RPM drive.

The next generation, mirrored door PowerMac G4, has DDR memory, ATI Radeon, and probably a lot faster drive. The thing is, each components are just little bit faster than the previous generation, but they add up. The combined performance will be VERY noticeable.

If you try to upgrade your Dual 500 with CPU, videocard, and disk, you'll end up spending maybe $500. But if you look at the used computer price on eBay, the difference in system price between Dual 500 and mirrored door is probably less than $500. Plus, the newer system will still be faster than heavily upgraded sawtooth.

Since you are already set to upgrade the current computer, just keep this in mind for the next time when you buy a computer. It's very easy to get carried away in upgrade frenzy, and end up spending more money and more inferior system.
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I agree with you, MoltenLava.

Just wanted to add that between the Sawtooth and the MDD lies the Quicksilver models, which are quite faster than the Sawtooth, and still less expensive than MDDs. The fastest Quicksilver was dual 1GHz, they are still pretty competitive and surely cheaper than a MDD.
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Just got a dual 500 quick silver G4 in the mail, it's still in the mail, should get it this Friday
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microtalk View Post
Just got a dual 500 quick silver G4 in the mail, it's still in the mail, should get it this Friday
The Dual 500Mhz G4 is the Gigibit Ethernet and not the QuickSliver.

http://www.lowendmac.com/ppc/g4mp.html

How much RAM is in the Dual G4? What OS if you know. If you need any help getting it going, just let us know.
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This G4 is nothing more to me, than if you went out and got a used classic car to redo. I wonder if to can slap a flash drive on it as the primary drive and if a 2 gig chip would be big enough as the primary drive, the same flash drives they throw inside of I pods to upgrade the storage. If the main drive has no moving parts then the system would be very quiet and fast
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I'm terribly sorry if this is addressed elsewhere, but upon searching with the search engine I was having trouble finding what I was looking for. I've caught hints that there is a way to install Mac OS X in classic mode so that it can run a classic Mac OS concurrently, or to run a classic Mac OS concurrently with a running OS X. I bought a MacBook Pro about a year ago and love it. It has the 2.33 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo Processor with 3 GB 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM, but I'd like to see if I can run an older OS concurrently. I've recently purchased a video game that is not supported by OS X. If there is a forum post in the FAQ feel free to point me to it with a link, I promise I searched around there first.
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