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cwilliamson 10-31-2007 02:35 AM

G4 hardware question
 
right now i have a g4 400mhz mac, is it possible to upgrade this box to a dual 1ghz g4? or is the box just not built for it?

Geeky1 10-31-2007 03:04 AM

What kind of G4 is it? Is it a "Yikes!" machine (PCI graphics, ZIF CPU socket) or a "Sawtooth" machine? (AGP graphics)?

If it's a PCI machine, you can't upgrade it to a dual anything. Fastest you can go is a 1GHz G3 or G4, and I'd recommend a G3 (they're faster for non-AltiVec optimized applications... which is most everything. Or was, last I checked.)

If it's an AGP machine, you can (if you can find a used dual 1ghz sawtooth-compatible card). You can definitely upgrade to dual 1.6s or 1.8s. However, for what it would cost, it wouldn't be worth it. The cheapest new dually card is a dual 1.6 for $380 at OWC.

Adding a decent CPU won't do you any good without a decent amount of RAM-BARE MINIMUM is 1GB, ideally you'd go all the way to two... Tack another $200 for 4 low-density 512mb SDRAM sticks, if you haven't upgraded already.

And even then, your graphics card (if you still have the stock rage 128) won't support any of the accelerated graphics (quartz extreme, core image), which means you'll need to pay up for a decent one. Assuming you don't want to flash one yourself, or gamble on a pre-flashed card from ebay, figure another $130 for a barely passable radeon 9200 from OWC.

Now you're up over $700. Plus shipping. For a machine that may not run Leopard (depending on how it's coded... minimum requirements include an 800MHz G4, but the installer may see that you have a Sawtooth board and refuse to install, even with dual 1.6s), and which will struggle to reach 2/3 the performance of a new, base model Mini with a 2GB RAM upgrade.

So basically... IF the machine can be upgraded (check it out and let us know what model it is), it's still not going to be cost effective to do so. And while that doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't do it-I'm currently looking at upgrades for my DA G4-it does mean that you need to seriously consider other options, unless you're doing this for fun like I am.

cwilliamson 10-31-2007 03:48 AM

CPU Speed: 400 MHz
Bus Speed: 100 MHz
RAM Type: PC100 DIMM
Onboard RAM: 256MB RAM slots: 4
Maximum RAM: 1 GB
Level 1 Cache: 32 kB data, 32 kB instruction
Level 2 Cache: 1 MB backside, 1:2
Expansion Slots: 3 64-bit 33 MHz PCI, 1 32-bit 66 MHz PCI (filled)
VRAM: 16 MB
Video Out: VGA
Hard Drive: None
ATA Bus: Ultra ATA
Optical Drive: 32x CD-ROM
Input/Output
USB: 2
Firewire: 2
Audio Out: stereo 16 bit mini
Audio In: stereo 16 bit mini
Networking
Ethernet: 10/100Base-T


see i dont have the money to buy a newer g5 intel or **** even a dual g4, i figured maybe i could upgrade it peice by peice. Im trying to get away from windows, and i just bought the computer above for $81 after shipping, w/o hdd, but i have one to go in it. If i find out i can do all of my software development with java on the mac with out a problem i was going to start upgrading starting with the cpu.

Geeky1 10-31-2007 04:07 AM

I'll post some recommendations on how to upgrade that machine if you like, in the morning, but I want to get this up so you can consider it before I go to bed. You'd be a LOT better off getting rid of that machine and getting a newer G4 than you would be trying to upgrade that. You can resell that thing for what you paid for it (or close), and an AGP G4 is a MUCH more capable machine and not very much more expensive.
This one has 10hrs left... Seller has 100% positive feedback, no DOA guarantee that I see but it appears to be working. It's a very good deal with the amount of RAM it has in it. Your best upgrade right now would be to buy this machine:
http://cgi.ebay.com/APPLE-G4-450MHZ-...QQcmdZViewItem

cwilliamson 10-31-2007 04:15 AM

i'v already ran out of money untill next payday...that is so odd to, i searched for hours and hours and hours before i bought the one i ordered, and i never came across that one, that sucks.

dtravis7 10-31-2007 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwilliamson (Post 517637)
i'v already ran out of money untill next payday...that is so odd to, i searched for hours and hours and hours before i bought the one i ordered, and i never came across that one, that sucks.

If you look in the back of your Mac, you see the audio Jacks below the USB ports? Are the Jacks Side by Side or one on top of the other?

Check pics at this URL.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58418

cwilliamson 10-31-2007 04:29 AM

oh and you can find deals on motherboards and dual g4 cpu's on ebay, i'v found 4 cpu's so far all below 90 dollars, and found a mobo slightly better then the one thats in the current system for 25, just hope theres good deals like this whenever i get ready to upgrade my only problem is i dont know if those parts will fit, i mean are all cpu boards and mobo built the same with the holes in the same places or what?

cwilliamson 10-31-2007 04:30 AM

i wont know till its delivered which should be Saturday or Monday, hopefully Saturday.

dtravis7 10-31-2007 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwilliamson (Post 517641)
i wont know till its delivered which should be Saturday or Monday, hopefully Saturday.

Ok let us know. That is one way to ID the machine and tell if it's a Yikes PCI or Sawtooth AGP.

Did you get it from Ebay? If so do you have the URL of the one you bought?

cwilliamson 10-31-2007 04:47 AM

1 32-bit 66 MHz PCI (filled)


im assuming thats the video card slot since the audio is onboard, so i would think that is a yikes pci? since it also doesn't say anything about a agp slot?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWN:IT&ih=012

dtravis7 10-31-2007 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwilliamson (Post 517650)
1 32-bit 66 MHz PCI (filled)


im assuming thats the video card slot since the audio is onboard, so i would think that is a yikes pci? since it also doesn't say anything about a agp slot?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWN:IT&ih=012

Yes that would spell out Yikes. I have that same machine. 400G4, 16 Meg 64Bit PCI Video. Upgraded mine to 1GB RAM. It's ok for VERY BASIC stuff. You can upgrade it like Geeky said, but the Sawtooth with AGP and even more RAM capacity and the possibility for Dual CPU's would be better.

What all you want to do with that Mac? Just learn OSX?

cwilliamson 10-31-2007 07:48 AM

well for starters the reason i went with the cheapest mac i could find that wasn't outdated to bad is i want to experiment with web development, if i can develope software for the web with out a problem then i want to slowly upgrade that mac for suitable standards, 1gb ram, slightly better VC, probably put some more hard drives in it, and im hoping i can upgrade the cpu and mobo after all that im going to save up to buy a dual g5

cwilliamson 10-31-2007 08:49 AM

i just did alittle bit more research, i found a website that sells the yikes cpu upgrade to a 1ghz g4 for 100 bucks, and i think i wont be able to upgrade the mobo because of the horizontal and vertical audio in/out, atleast i will be able to run sun java studio creator, hopefully. if anyone has any ideas please let me know

cwilliamson 11-02-2007 08:09 PM

i just got the computer today and "family number" is m5183 which is a sawtooth, any ideas of upgrading the cpu?

Geeky1 11-02-2007 08:35 PM

Have you opened it to verify that it's a sawtooth? If it is, the heatsink on the CPU will be very large and the board will look like this (sorry if this is really basic, I don't know what your knowledge of the inner workings of computers is, I mean no offense at all :)):
http://cgi.ebay.com/Apple-G4-Logic-B...QQcmdZViewItem
Note that the top (rightmost) slot on the left side of the pic is brown and set farther back on the board than the other 3 white slots. That'd be an AGP slot.

Compare that to a G3/G4 Yikes! board (which, unfortunately, is pictured from a different perspective):
http://cgi.ebay.com/Apple-Macintosh-...QQcmdZViewItem
The leftmost slot on the right side of the pic is white like the other 3, and the front edge lines up with the other 3 as well. The CPU heatsink (silver thing at the back of the pic) is also very small.

As far as upgrades go, take a look at this post and see if it helps you at all. I posted it in another sawtooth upgrade thread last night:
http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/sho...32&postcount=4


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