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Apple Desktops Discussion of Apple's desktop machines including Mac Pro, iMac, Power Mac, and mini

Power Mac - 'Damage to the Volume Header Block' alert.


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Mac Muppet

 
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Hi All,

I have a B&W G3 350 mHz running OS 8.5.1 that I have just acquired and it all seems to run fine, but on shutdown I get a Norton FileSaver alert, 'Macintosh Hard drive', "Damage to the Volume Header Block. Use Norton Disk Doctor to repair". When I click the ok button it says "Cant scan Macintosh Hard Drive because the disk is in use" so I normally just ok this and shut it down. It does this every time I use it.

Is this a serious problem and would running Norton on a CD repair it?

Any ideas anyone?

Cheers, Rob

The older I get ........The better I was.
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mac57

 
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Running Norton is a serious problem! :-) Seriously, I would discontinue use of Norton; it is hugely intrusive and provides a lot of this sort of "false positive" error report.

In this case, Norton generally makes a copy of the partition table and header blocks of the system disk when it is first installed. It then regularly compares the current contents of those items with its saved copy. If there is any delta, you get the warning you are seeing. This is intended to pick up malware that is inserting itself into your boot sequence.

The problem with this is that many legitimate changes can take place in these areas, and unless the previous owner kept Norton up to date, it's saved copy may be badly out of date with the now correct content of your partition table and header blocks. Upgrading Mac OS X might do this, as might repartitioning of the drive itself for any good reason.

I would advise the following. (1) get rid of Norton. (2) Use the Mac's Disk Utility to verify the drive (Disk Utility, First Aid, Verify Disk). If Disk Utility reports that all is well, believe it. If it reports trouble, believe that too, and take the appropriate steps to repair it, within the universe of Mac tools vs. within the universe of external systems like Norton.

Good luck.

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Mac Muppet

 
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Hi mac57,

Thanks for your reply.

Running the Disk Utilities and verifying the disk shows that all is OK.

Would Norton not be useful, albeit with the annoying incorrect alerts that it throws up, in case of any future fixes I may need to do or is it detrimental to keep Norton on the system?.

I assume I do a 'Find' for all Norton files and applications and then drag them into the trash to delete them.

Cheers, Rob

The older I get ........The better I was.
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Since you are running OS 8.5.1, you should be okay with Norton Utilities. You will need to boot from the Norton Utilities disk. In order to repair the boot up disk. Also if I remember correctly OS 8.6 was better than 8.5.1.

If your system is running OS X, then it is true that you don't want to be playing with Norton utilities.

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I will defer to rman on this - I am definitely not an expert, even more so on the topic of Mac OS versions prior to Mac OS X.

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Yeah, like rman says, Norton became a great danger with Mac OS X systems but was ok for OS 9 and earlier OSes.

If you have DiskWarrior, the pre-OS X version, this might greatly help as well.
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Mac Muppet

 
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Hi Guys,

Thanks for your replies.

Do you think that there is an actual problem with the Volume Header Block, as running the Disk Utilities and verifying the disk shows that all is OK.

If there isn't a problem then the false alerts are just an annoyance.

Cheers, Rob

The older I get ........The better I was.
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rman

 
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Appears that you may have fixed the problem. I would make sure I make regular back ups and watch the disk.

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, It's about learning to dance in the rain!
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Mac Muppet

 
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OK rman, thanks.

Is there any way of stopping the alerts or do I just put up with them?

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rman

 
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Now I am confused about the alerts.

What is it that you are getting?

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, It's about learning to dance in the rain!
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MacHeadCase
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Muppet View Post
Hi All,

I have a B&W G3 350 mHz running OS 8.5.1 that I have just acquired and it all seems to run fine, but on shutdown I get a Norton FileSaver alert, 'Macintosh Hard drive', "Damage to the Volume Header Block. Use Norton Disk Doctor to repair". When I click the ok button it says "Cant scan Macintosh Hard Drive because the disk is in use" so I normally just ok this and shut it down. It does this every time I use it.

Is this a serious problem and would running Norton on a CD repair it?

Any ideas anyone?

Cheers, Rob
That's the error message Rob gets.
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Brown Study

 
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Norton FileSaver is a turkey. I remember it causing problems. I stopped using it with some later version of OS 7 or an early OS 8, but I'm not sure whether I remember properly how to get rid of FileSaver's tags on all the files. But getting rid of the program should be enough.

See if the FileSaver program exists in the Norton Utilities folder. If it does, pull it out and compress it or do something else to break it (put it in the trash, but don't empty the trash) because it probably would still work even if it's not in its folder.

Check the extensions to see if there's one called FileSaver. If there is, disable it.

Run a search for FileSaver and yank anything it finds. If your version of Norton is old enough, it will have a search program called FastFind in the Norton folder. It's a good app, and sometimes finds stuff the Mac Search function doesn't. If you have it, run FastFind to also look for FileSaver, get rid of everything you found, then restart the machine (because FileSaver would still be running) and shut it down or restart it again to see if the problem is gone.

If it is, and you stored FileSaver in the trash to test the above, kiss it goodbye and empty the trash.

If the problem remains or you can't find any FileSaver stuff, disable all the Norton extensions in the Extensions folder and compress (if you can) all the Norton apps on the machine so you don't get a warning telling you any Norton app, particularly FileSaver, needs the extension/extensions to run.

If you don't have a partitioned drive or two drives, each with its own boot system that can check the other with Norton, there's not much point in having Norton on the machine at all, since you'd need the CD or floppies to run Disk Doctor and Speed Disk (FastFind might still work without Norton's extensions.)

If this is the case and you have the CD or floppies or can make backups of it all, including the extensions, nuke everything Norton, including its extensions. Run a search to make sure you find all of it, restart, then shut down or restart again.

Finally, if you have Norton Disk Doctor on a boot CD or floppy, run it once more. If not, use the Mac's First Aid.
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Mac Muppet

 
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Hi Brown Study,

Thanks for your reply. I'll have a look at doing this tomorrow.

I'm not sure if FastFind is on the Mac, but when you say "put the FileSaver program in the Trash but don't empty" and "then use FastFind to look for FileSaver, get rid of everything you found", do I drag these into the Trash and not empty it also?.

I haven't got Norton Disk Doctor on CD but can track one down if needed.

By the way, how would I compress a file, do I use stuffit or whatever if it's on this Mac, and does compressing isolate the files/apps and stop them from working?

Sorry for all the questions, it's been around 7 years since I last used a Mac in anger and I'm a bit rusty. I'm using a PC to write these posts as the Mac's not on the Web, lol.

Cheers, Rob

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Brown Study

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Muppet View Post
I'm not sure if FastFind is on the Mac, but when you say "put the FileSaver program in the Trash but don't empty" and "then use FastFind to look for FileSaver, get rid of everything you found", do I drag these into the Trash and not empty it also?.
Putting FileSaver in the trash should prevent it from working, even if the FileSaver extension, which might kick in automatically on shut down, tells it to, as long as the app isn't running when you trash it. But the trash is kind of dangerous as a filing cabinet, for obvious reasons.

Whether FastFind is on the Mac or not isn't really that important. The normal Find Command F should be enough to find all of FileSaver. I just can't recall where all the pieces hide. Maybe it's just the app and the extension/extensions.
Quote:
By the way, how would I compress a file, do I use stuffit or whatever if it's on this Mac, and does compressing isolate the files/apps and stop them from working?
Stuffit is pre-OS X's de facto standard, so you might have it or DropStuff, which was a Stuffit freebie, and which might still be around on the net for your OS if it's not in the machine.

Compressing an app makes it unrecognizable to the computer. Its code is squashed.

After compressing, you'd have to trash the uncompressed version of the app, if Stuffit's preferences aren't set to delete the original automatically. Mine isn't, because if the system freezes in mid-squash, both versions might be lost (OS 9 is very last century. )
Quote:
I haven't got Norton Disk Doctor on CD but can track one down if needed.
With only a single drive or single partition, Norton Disk Utilities can't fix anything, because it can't repair or properly defragment the system that's running it. That's why I have two OS 9 partitions (I've lost the Norton CD.) I have to run Norton off one OS 9 partition to fix the main partition, but doing that is at least 10 times faster than running the CD, so I don't really care.

But if you don't have Norton on CD but decide to kill it anyway, you could back up all the Norton stuff and its extension/extensions and still have it if you partition the drive or add another one.

Stuffit Deluxe can compress, then slice up big files, such as apps, into multiple pieces small enough to fit onto floppies. It can then rejoin them when the app is uncompressed. (But don't forget Norton's extensions.) If you do this, copy the pieces onto more than one set of floppies. They are notoriously unreliable.

I wouldn't want to run my main OS 9 partition long-term without Norton. (Or DiskWarrior. Norton has very occasionally failed to repair the disk.)
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Mac Muppet

 
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Hi Brown Study,

Here's an update on things by following your instructions and using FastFind.

I located the FileSaver Application in System Folder/Control Panels and moved it to the Trash.

I have located the Norton FileSaver Extension and Norton FileSaver Assistant and moved them both to Extensions (Disabled).

I have located and moved Norton FileSaver Document from Shutdown Items to Shutdown Items (Disabled).

In Norton Utilities Preferences I have located and moved Norton FileSaver Preferences Document to Preferences (Disabled).

The FileSaver Application is still in the Trash I haven't deleted it yet. All the other items that I have Disabled have not been compressed at all.

This has eliminated all FileSaver alerts on Startup and Shutdown.

Running Disk First Aid shows "The Volume 'Macintosh-HD' appears to be ok" when verifying.

The Mac shuts down nice and quick now.

So I think you've solved it. Thanks very much for your help on this.

Cheers, Rob

The older I get ........The better I was.
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