New DSLR Buyer; Lens Help

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I was thinking about getting a Canon Digital Rebel XTi kit (with the 18-55mm lens) and an additional zoom lens. I don't really know what to look for in a lens and I don't really know much about the technical stuff on them either(I don't know much about the technical stuff behind the camera either, lol). If someone could help me out with picking the right lens, it would be greatly appreciated.

Another option would be for me to get the XSi without an additional lens right away. Suggestions on which would be better for me to get?
 
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Here's a good starting point: http://photo.net/equipment/canon/

General rule of thumb: Spend your money on the lens, and not on the camera; like computers, advances in technology cause digital cameras to get "outdated" every year, while lenses generally do not. By this rule, you would be better served getting the Xti over the Xsi. You'll still get very good image quality with the Xti.

Don't get the crappy 18~55 kit lens. There is a newer version of the 18~55 lens with Image Stabilization, which is noticeably better. With the money saved on getting the Xti over the Xsi, buy the newer lens.

What additional range are you looking for? Wider or longer? If you are going wider, you only have one choice among Canon lenses; the 10~22. If going longer, your best bet is the 70~200 f/4L. A secondary option is the 70~300IS.
 
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Here's a good starting point: http://photo.net/equipment/canon/

General rule of thumb: Spend your money on the lens, and not on the camera; like computers, advances in technology cause digital cameras to get "outdated" every year, while lenses generally do not. By this rule, you would be better served getting the Xti over the Xsi. You'll still get very good image quality with the Xti.

Don't get the crappy 18~55 kit lens. There is a newer version of the 18~55 lens with Image Stabilization, which is noticeably better. With the money saved on getting the Xti over the Xsi, buy the newer lens.

What additional range are you looking for? Wider or longer? If you are going wider, you only have one choice among Canon lenses; the 10~22. If going longer, your best bet is the 70~200 f/4L. A secondary option is the 70~300IS.

Crappy is subjective. I've taken some amazing shots with the kit lens. Usually the result depend on who is behind the camera and not what lens is on the front.
 
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I was thinking about getting a Canon Digital Rebel XTi kit (with the 18-55mm lens) and an additional zoom lens. I don't really know what to look for in a lens and I don't really know much about the technical stuff on them either(I don't know much about the technical stuff behind the camera either, lol). If someone could help me out with picking the right lens, it would be greatly appreciated.

Another option would be for me to get the XSi without an additional lens right away. Suggestions on which would be better for me to get?

Want another option? How serious are you about getting into photography? A used 30D can be had for less than an XTI and has much better features. It's a physically larger camera, but the IQ between the two will be almost identical.

the 70-200 f/4L that was mentioned above is a great zoom lens, but cost about $600 new. It really is worth the money though. The sharpness of that lens is amazing.
 
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Crappy is subjective. I've taken some amazing shots with the kit lens. Usually the result depend on who is behind the camera and not what lens is on the front.

Village: I've got the original kit lens (it came as a throw-in with the Xt), and I'll stand by my statement. While you are correct that skill is more important than equipment, all things being equal, better equipment will get the knowledgeable photographer a better image. Conversely, the best photographer in the world will be limited by his/her equipment. My daughter is learning now on the XT and kit lens combo.

The OP asked for recommendations, and I steered him away from the original kit lens, because for only $40+ more, he can get Image Stabilization (which alone would be worth the extra cost) and better image quality. Take a look at the first sample image in in this lens review, place your cursor over the image, and tell me if you think the OP should still waste his time on the original kit lens.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-S-18-55mm-f-3.5-5.6-IS-Lens-Review.aspx
 
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everything that I would have told you has already been said...excellent points from both....
 
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Okay so I think I'm gonna go with the XTi and get the 70-200 f/4L, but I still don't know whether or not to get the 18-55 with the kit or get it separate with the IS...?
 
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There's truthfully not that much difference between the two photos. A resolution test chart would have probably been a better comparison.
 
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There's truthfully not that much difference between the two photos. A resolution test chart would have probably been a better comparison.

I think one of us may need glasses. ;D
 
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What about the 1200mm lens? Do you think that's a good deal? LOL only $90g!

Anyway I think I'll get the kit and the 70-200 f/4L. What about a flash? Do you think it's necessary?


EDIT: Maybe I want a second opinion from anyone else other than VI and EORI...
 
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What about a flash? Do you think it's necessary?

It depends what your needs are, and also the lenses that you have available. I personally hate flash, and shoot without one 99% of the time. An alternative to a flash is to get this lens, which is cheap but has very good image quality, and you can shoot pictures in doors without flash in most instances:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00007E7JU/?tag=macforums0e4-20
 
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Check out photozone.de for lens reviews. The lens is FAR more important than the camera! This is not to say that you cannot get good results from a kit lens, but check out any photography forum, and everyone will tell you the same thing, spend your money on lenses.

Any of the Canon "L" series will be great lenses. The 70-200mm series is a great all around lens. I shoot semi-professionally and this is the lens that is on my camera the most.
 
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I have the Canon Speedlight 420EX flash and it's one of my most valuable accessories. The flash body can pivot and rotate which means you can bounce the light off a wall or ceiling and get a nice soft light effect. It also works well when you are in a large room and need to throw some light. Finally, when you are outside and the sun is casting a shadow on your subject the external flash gives you a lot more horsepower to light up things in the shade.

Yes, I would recommend getting an external flash. Just make sure you get one that rotates and pivots. My Speedlight has worked flawlessly for nearly 3 years now.
 
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I recently got this Sigma 70-300 f4-5.6 (i got the version for Pentax), the price seems fair and the quality is very good, plus it does macro 1:2, i really like it.
As i always said when i reply to a SLR topic, consider a Pentax K10d if you haven't bought the body yet.
 
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What about the 1200mm lens? Do you think that's a good deal? LOL only $90g!

Anyway I think I'll get the kit and the 70-200 f/4L. What about a flash? Do you think it's necessary?


EDIT: Maybe I want a second opinion from anyone else other than VI and EORI...

Yes. Photography is about lighting. Look at the links I'm posting below.

It depends what your needs are, and also the lenses that you have available. I personally hate flash, and shoot without one 99% of the time. An alternative to a flash is to get this lens, which is cheap but has very good image quality, and you can shoot pictures in doors without flash in most instances:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00007E7JU/?tag=macforums0e4-20

Relying on a fast lens over lighting techniques is not always a sure thing. Plus having to shoot at 640+ ISO and f/1.8 to get a decent exposure is going to give you grainier pictures and using such a shallow DOF can really hurt photos. Plus the 50mm f/1.8 loves to hunt for focus in the dark, it's very unreliable as far as that goes.

Then again, lighting can be expensive. I've spent nearly $1000 on three flashes, radio triggers, and all the other accessories you need for this. The trick to using flashes successfully is to be able to take pictures that look like they've only used natural light. It takes a lot of time and practive to get this right, but it will make your photos look amazing.

Strobist blog's lighting 101 articles
Strobist Flickr discussion group/photo pool

Just check out some of the photos in the flickr photo pool. All of them use off camera lighting and there are some amazing photos that could not have been captured without the use of flashes and artificial lighting.
 
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Flash certainly has it's place, but I would not recommend it to any beginner. As Village correctly notes, it takes a lot of study, experience and equipment to get right, all of which a beginner is typically lacking. And of course, outside of a studio, one often does not have the luxury of carrying about and setting up the necessary lighting system that's being talked about here.

It's difficult enough for a beginner to learn and master the controls on a DSLR. A flash only adds another piece of equipment to get right. How often do we see indoor or night time images taken with on-camera or built-in flash that results in a harsh frontal reflection or a sharp light fall-off a few feet beyond the subject matter. Think photojournalism.

To the OP, I would recommend sticking with available light photography until you're comfortable with the DSLR. Get the fast prime lens, crank the ISO up to a sufficiently high level to achieve the desired depth of field and necessary shutter speed, set the camera to center focus, focus on the subject, recompose, and shoot. If the noise bothers you, put the camera on a tripod, or put the image through a noise reduction software like Noise Ninja.

Below is an image that I've posted here before, and it was taken at night in the back yard with no flash and the only light source coming from that which was spilling out from inside the house. I used an 85mm f/1.8 lens set to f/2.8, 1000 ISO, and a shutter speed of 1/125'. An on-camera flash unit would have ruined the shot.

217590392_7Pn7V-M.jpg
 
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As far as I can see (having quickly scanned through this thread) the OP has not stated what sort of photography he intends to do (landscapes, portrait, wildlife, candids, etc) - without knowing that it is rather pointless giving advice on lenses.

I have an XTi/Digital Rebel which I have used with the kit lens (which is crap), 70-210mm (an old "film" lens) 100-400mm L f/5.6 and my 500 L f/4. Under favourable conditions it has given images as good as my 1D Mk III.

Colin
 
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Flash certainly has it's place, but I would not recommend it to any beginner. As Village correctly notes, it takes a lot of study, experience and equipment to get right, all of which a beginner is typically lacking. And of course, outside of a studio, one often does not have the luxury of carrying about and setting up the necessary lighting system that's being talked about here.

I have two kits that I carry. When I know I need everything, it's three bags. That includes 3 battery powered speed lights, my camera & lenses, my radio triggers, and light stands and accessories.

When I'm traveling light, I still have my Canon 580EX II in my main bag with a diffuser and and a 2" home depot clamp modified to attach an umbrella adapter, which is also in my main bag and is 5"x1 1/4" as well as two radio transceivers. Very compact, and sets me up with the ability to use one light off camera if the need arises.

It's difficult enough for a beginner to learn and master the controls on a DSLR. A flash only adds another piece of equipment to get right. How often do we see indoor or night time images taken with on-camera or built-in flash that results in a harsh frontal reflection or a sharp light fall-off a few feet beyond the subject matter. Think photojournalism.

Fact: The on camera flash is crap.
Fact: A cheap manual speed light will cost you less than $90 and remedy this problem, even on camera.
Fact: Most wedding photographers use a speed light on camera and achieve amazing photos.

On camera. Fall off was because it was shot outside in the dark with nothing 200 feet behind the subject. The ligthing isn't harsh, but that's because I used bounce flash. Canon's weaker flashes can expose properly @ full power up to 120 or so feet. That's pretty far and fall off doesn't become a worry until you're shooting huge rooms. There was even a picture on the Canon DSLR forums of a person lighting a gym with flash bounced off the cieling with Canon's 580EX II.

The below shot was with a $90 Vivitar. Most of my shots were with one or two $90 Vivitars as I just got the 580EX II a few weeks ago. Point it up, rubberband an index card to the back of it to help with fill flash and you're in business.
2235220845_dbfeccefde.jpg


To the OP, I would recommend sticking with available light photography until you're comfortable with the DSLR. Get the fast prime lens, crank the ISO up to a sufficiently high level to achieve the desired depth of field and necessary shutter speed, set the camera to center focus, focus on the subject, recompose, and shoot. If the noise bothers you, put the camera on a tripod, or put the image through a noise reduction software like Noise Ninja.

Noise reduction software is nice and can ever be used for simple skin smoothing, but don't rely on it 100%. You lose details as it blends pixels together to eliminate noise. Too much noise reduction and your images start to look like plastic.

Below is an image that I've posted here before, and it was taken at night in the back yard with no flash and the only light source coming from that which was spilling out from inside the house. I used an 85mm f/1.8 lens set to f/2.8, 1000 ISO, and a shutter speed of 1/125'. An on-camera flash unit would have ruined the shot.

If you're talking about the pop up flash unit, then yes; an on camera speed light with a $15 diffuser could have produced the same effects at ISO 100 with an aperture of f/5.6, allowing for a DOF to capture all of the subject.

If you want to continue this conversation, I'll start a new thread instead of clogging this one up any more. It's agreed that this isn't an important issue for the OP to learn right away, but if he becomes anything more than a fairweather hobbyist, learning lighting techniques and how to control it is an important aspect of photography.

More flash photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cokronk/2305893638/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cokronk/2269161213/
 

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