8.6 and DSL

Hello,

I have surfed and Googled some, but I can't tell if I have the answer to my question.

I want to get DSL from ATT/Yahoo. I have a box (iMac 333, tray loading, Grape) running Mac 8.6 and a box running WinXP.

I'm trying to see if I just get the basic basic DSL modem (not the fancy one) that is DSL in and ethernet(?) out, connect to a router that is ethernet(?) in ethernet out, and then connect to my boxes ethernet in, if it will work.

The ATT tech people say no that I must have 10.3 to connect. I think they mean I have to have 10.3 to run some stupid connection software wizard or client they have, but I don't know. Do I have to run any software on the 8.6 box to get it to see a router or handle DSL? It doesn't make sense to me that I would- I thought that was what built in ethernet was all about.

If I start backward, hook the boxes up to the router, find the router's base address of 192.168.1.1 or whatever it is, set up to use DHCP (whatever that is) instead of usign the TCP/IP PPP dial up, and try to get the machines talking to the router first, then hook the router into the modem, reset the modem, and get the router to talk to the modem, will it work?????

Bear in mind I talk a good game and use letters like DHCP and TCP/IP and ASDL without really knowing what I am saying....

Any help appreciated including steering me a definitive resource I may have overlooked.

Mike

If a computer supports TCP/IP then it can connect to the internet, whether its by modem or DSL. All you need is a ethernet card or port to connect the router to your computer. MAc OS 8.6 supports TCP/IP and DHCP so it should gets its IP address automatically from the router (which will have a DHCP server set up on it). Then configure the router using any browser with the settings from your ISP such as username and password to connect with and it should just work.

Part of that makes sense to me, but I see an area I don't understand.

"configure the router using any browser with the settings from your ISP"

I think "they" will be expecting me to take the DSL modem direct to a single box where I will run their set up software. Thus I think the problem with the system requirements. They ain't gonna help me much if I stick a router in the middle I don't think.

I was trying to learn and reading some stuff I didn't understand about static IP's and DHCP renewing its "lease" on IP numbers that evidently is some sort of a problem for 8.6 and DSL connections. Anybody know anything about that and can explain it? Are their intelligent questions I should ask of tech support like would I get a static IP?

I think I want to try this because I don't think I have anything to lose except the time I invest in it not working and the cost of a router. They want $15 a month for the low end DSL which is all I want or need anyway with no contract. Just do one month if I want. They will charge me $50 for a DSL modem and give me a $50 mail in rebate for it.

So I figure I pay the $15, get the free modem, buy an $80 router, and try it. I just would like it to work.

Guess I need to figure out how to configure a router with IE on Mac 8.6?

I have a few old Macs here with 8.6-9.22 and all work plugged into my router and I use AT&T (SBC) DSL. You might want to use the PC though to set up the DSL as the older browsers in OS 8.6 might have issues with AT&T setup pages. After it's set up, plug the older Mac into one of the ports on the router. Be sure it's all set for DHCP, both the router and OS 8.6.

I saw some windstream dsl modems at the thrift store this week for $2.00 also ethernet huds. The problem may be with finding drivers for the modem? As most of thease modems where designed for PCs.

The modern SpeedStream modems all have PPPoE Dialers and will do the connecting to the DSL. All you need is a Web Browser that will go to 192.168.1.1 or 0.1. It's just the browsers in 8.6 are so bad! I have seen some that had issue displaying the setup pages in modern routers!

I bought 2 SpeedStream 5100B's and keep them just in case something goes wrong with my main DSL modem.

dtravis7 said:

You might want to use the PC though to set up the DSL as the older browsers in OS 8.6 might have issues with AT&T setup pages. After it's set up, plug the older Mac into one of the ports on the router.

Click to expand...

dtravis7 said:

All you need is a Web Browser that will go to 192.168.1.1 or 0.1. It's just the browsers in 8.6 are so bad!

dtravis7 said:

Hmmm. Well I'm hoping iCab can handle it. Definitely going to have to read up on configuring a router. I thought I would get the Mac and the router talking first and then introduce the DSL modem to the conversation. Perhaps I can't do that? The better approach is to get the whole shebang (modem, router, box, browser) going on the WinXP side and then bring the Mac to the table later?

Mac SK said:

The problem may be with finding drivers for the modem? As most of thease modems where designed for PCs.

Click to expand...

Shhhh! Don't say that out loud. The last thing I want to do is try and chase obscure 8.6 drivers/control panels/extensions. I was thinking with the router in between the Mac and the modem, the Mac didn't talk to the modem directly and therefore wouldn't need any modem talking software installed. Maybe I have that wrong as well?

You all have been helpful so far. Thanks.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Saw this post ,maybe it will help!
http://www.atpm.com/6.05/dslsegments.shtml

Interesting. Too bad some many of the links are old and broken in that article.

From that article:

" 1. Many broadband technologies are using authentication software that must run on the computer using the service. Some companies have developed their own authentication software for both platforms, but many have developed it only for PC with a “Mac version forthcoming” claim."

This is my fear. That they want me to run some proprietary piece of junk I dont' need that won't run on my machine.

"2. Many broadband technologies are using the new transport protocol known as point-to-point protocol over Ethernet (better-known as PPPoE), and this protocol isn’t as easily implemented on the Mac as it is on Windows (or so they say)."

Version tracker appears to have a version of the PPPoE client MacPoET. I hope I don't have to try to figure that out, but that looks like it may be almost figure-out-able.

"3. Many broadband technologies not using PPPoE are using DHCP as the connection protocol, and we all know that the Mac OS has had documented problems with DHCP. Not that I’m saying the problems aren’t solvable...just that various broadband providers themselves haven’t solved them."

Which would mean I would just be toast I assume.

Alright, time to order up the service and get into this.

This is AT&T (SBC) DSL correct? Did you get their Modem? There is no Driver required for their modem. You can do a manual setup.

I forgot all about iCab. That just might do it.

Found some more stuff on DSL for macs,
http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=951354&pid=r&mode=ALL&n=0&query=DSL

dtravis7 said:

This is AT&T (SBC) DSL correct? Did you get their Modem? There is no Driver required for their modem. You can do a manual setup.

Click to expand...

Yes it is the ATT/Yahoo thing. I have ATT for local phone service.

They offered me two choices: A combination modem wireless router with a Gateway brand name (I assume 1 phone in and 4 ethernet out) and generic straight modem (I assume 1 phone in in and 1 ethernet out).

I got just the straight modem and will stick my own router on the backside (get to go shopping now!) to connect my two machines on the theory that their combo piece would require some sort of installed driver/software/installation wizard thingymabob that 8.6 couldn't handle. I figure if I have more control over the choice of the router that I will be more likely to hit something I can manually configure and get to work with 8.6.

I am guesing the all in one would be more complicated to get working than than the sub pieces.

I've ordered it. So I guess I'll find out. I may (will probably!) post again with problems and will definitely post with "the final outcome."

Hold your breath.

Don't forget to change the TCP/IP control panel's connect via, to ethernet

Will do. When I get my cables and my router I'm going to buy at the local store instead of Best Buy/Circuit City/Office Depot. Their cables are literally 1/5 the cost.

I intend to pump the guys there for more little tidbits like that when I make the purchase. They run iMacs with 10.something on them for a cash register/sales system, so I'm hoping to add their store of wisdom to your'alls.

Hey Snorlax,
Here in Atlanta I can get a $10 deal with At&t.Check your local fine print.

$10.00 per month Basic DSL for Qualifying Customers: Residential AT&T Yahoo! High-Speed Internet customers only. Basic speed ($10.00 per month) available for new customers only. New customer is defined as not having AT&T Yahoo! High Speed Internet or BellSouth High Speed Internet in the past 12-months. Purchase of local service from the applicable AT&T incumbent local exchange carrier required. This is a limited time offer and is only available for AT&T Yahoo! High Speed Internet. Static IP products not included. Speed references based on maximum downstream DSL synch rates and may vary. $150-$200 additional charge will apply if technician install is required or desired. Billing begins on the date service is provisioned by AT&T, even if customer has not yet registered. Service not available in all areas. Subject to change without notice. Maximum speed achieved depends on customer location. Acceptance of Terms of Service required. Taxes and additional fees extra. Other restrictions, including credit restrictions and qualification, apply. Price expires on 12/29/09.

I can't speak about 8.6, but until three months ago I ran 9.2 for years over DSL, using PPoE and a Speedstream supplied by Bell Canada, but with a direct connection, no router. This was from a dual-processer G4 tower.

Bell supplied a CD with an app that set up 9.2 properly for the net, but the app would need constant reloading. I finally trashed it, and changed the modem setting to any one of 9.2's dial-up modems that are in the built-in list of modems.

This setup worked without problems for three years — until I moved. It worked with iCab, IE, Mozilla 1.2.1, WaMCom's Mozilla 1.3.1 (that works with 8.6) or any other browser and email app I could find. The WaMCom browser ran faster than Firefox on my OS X partition, so setting up 9.2 as though it was using a dial-up modem had no adverse effects.

How good was that WaMCom's Mozilla 1.3.1 with modern sites on the net? I never have tried that on my OS9 rigs.

dtravis7 said:

How good was that WaMCom's Mozilla 1.3.1 with modern sites on the net?

Click to expand...

Except for a few sites that require newer versions of JavaScript and Flash, WaMCom blows the doors off Firefox running on my G4 tower's X partition.

Since a recent move, I share — and will for a while yet — the use of a jellybean iMac with only 64 megs of RAM, so I set up WaMCom's Mozilla on this iMac as I have it in the G4 (gathering dust in the basement.)

Some Firefox extensions work with WaMCom (the pipeline extension Tweak Network doesn't, so I added the settings it uses to the user.js file I created).



The pic (of my home page) shows the browser extensions that I found work with WamCom, along with my user.js file.

Two of these extensions require a bit of install voodoo. I found that for Extension Manager to show up under Tools in the menu bar, Extension Uninstaller 2.0 must be installed first, then Extension Manager 2.0. The others can be installed in any order. But after each install of any extension, the browser must be quit and restarted. It can't handle installing more than one at a time. (Prefbar — there are many more settings it makes available than I use — is an older version that can still be downloaded).

Extension Unistaller doesn't work. It's dead weight, but without it — again, it must be installed ahead of Extension Manager 2.0 — Extension Manager doesn't show up, making any extension preference settings, such as those in SmoothWheel, impossible to change.

Since the uninstaller doesn't work, I'm very careful as to what extensions I experiment with by first making backups of the profile folder, the app itself and the Mozilla files in the system's Preferences folder (sometimes a failed extension prevents the app itself from using the Profile folder, despite manually deleting the failed-extension files — or all I can find — so I back up everything so the app always matches the Profile folder).

JavaScript has no problem with the three banking sites the browser is used with, but it chokes on some other sites, Mac-Forums included, but in the latter case only when posting (the page can't see any message to be posted, and a notice appears saying I haven't written enough characters). So using the Prefbar extension, I turn JavaScript off and reload the page, or back up one page, clear the disk cache, using Prefbar, and click the link again. With JavaScript off, however, the posting box doesn't recognize paragraphs, so I use two br / commands, each surrounded by less-than and more-than brackets (these won't show up, so I can't type them to illustrate). And with JavaScript off, using quotation marks in a post requires jumping through a couple of other hoops, so I usually don't bother with them. Regarding the all-important YouTube, there's no problem. I have no clue about FaceBook or other social-networking sites.

With some sites, such as MacDailyNews, the anti-spam pic of the ever-changing code required to log in doesn't show up, so I can't add to the requisite swearing and ranting in the comments.

These restrictions aren't WaMCom's fault, though. The old JavaScript acts the same with any OS 9 browser, so if anyone happens to know of a solution, I'd appreciate hearing it.

One thing peculiar to WaMCom, however, is the computer's resolution setting. On some sites, such as Ars Technica, the left side of the page (excluding the forums) is cut off unless a finer resolution than 800 X 600 is used. On the jellybean, 1024 X 768 eliminates that problem.

Oh, and the Mouse Gestures extension version is an older one, if I recall. It uses JavaScript, and a while ago, that part of the site with posted sharings of JavaScript code was down. I don't know whether it's back online.

Brown Study, thanks so much for all the info. Downloaded it and will try it later this evening on my old 8.6 and above Macs.

Okay. I have DSL now.

I used the wizard disc that came with the DSL and it set up with no problems.

I bought a Trendnet 802.11g wireless firewall router, ran the installation disc on it with no problems.

I am posting this from a Win XP box behind a working router and DSL modem.

Bought a purple cable (yay!) to go with my grape iMac.

I go the the TCP/IP control panel on the Mac to change the "connect via" to ethernet. I have two choices in the pull down: PPP or AppleTalk (MacIP).

My control panel- she no look like this one:
http://www.it.utah.edu/services/helpDesk/connectedhelp/ana_faq/mac_faq.html

If I just fire off IE to try to go to the router address it just tries to dial out.

Tried running the Internet setup assistant. That was no help.

How do I get a control panel that will let me choose ethernet?