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badshoehabit
06-05-2017, 05:45 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/05/imac-pro-apple-launches-powerful-new-desktop-macbook-starting-at-4999

pigoo3
06-05-2017, 06:00 PM
Awesome...thanks for posting Sue!:)

- Nick

pigoo3
06-05-2017, 06:04 PM
I think the new iMac Pro is a pretty cool idea (an area that hasn't exactly been explored)...and could be an interesting alternative to a Mac Pro. Of course there's the non-upgradability factor. But then again...the new 2013 Mac Pro wasn't super upgradeable either.

And of course a $4999+ iMac Pro is certainly targeted at professional level users (or individual users with wayyy too much cash).;)

Might be nice to get one of these used in 2-3 years when prices drop!:)

- Nick

chscag
06-05-2017, 06:06 PM
I saw that on the WWDC site today. I can't imagine paying $5K for an iMac Pro or anything else Apple makes. At least with a Mac Pro you could get inside of it and do some configuring yourself - graphic cards, etc. This new iMac Pro will be glued together just like all the other new iMacs and it uses the more expensive EEC memory modules.

However, the new MacBook with the Kaby Lake CPU looks interesting, that and the somewhat updated MacBook Air. :)

Raz0rEdge
06-05-2017, 06:07 PM
Of course the $5k price is for the base 8-core iMac Pro. I wonder how much the 18-core machine with the maxed out RAM would end up running..

This, I think, truly signals the end of the Mac Pro as a product.

pigoo3
06-05-2017, 06:24 PM
Yes sir Ashwin. The price of that 18 core iMac Pro will be interesting!;) And yes...it would seem that the Mac Pro line at best may be on life-support.:(

Comparing the Mac Pro and iMac Pro from the creative professional standpoint. I think a lot of creative professionals (video & graphics folks)...who work in the big office buildings of the big cities around the world...are the sort that don't really care about what's "inside". They just want to put "gas in the car"...and get from point A to point B.

And maybe if the performance of the iMac Pro is justified by saving time (less rendering hours spent on video & graphics projects)...the companies employing these folks won't care about the price either. Will be interesting to see benchmarks for the iMac Pros!:)

I'd like to know what the cooling system is like in an 18-core iMac Pro with top level graphics. Hopefully doesn't sound like a 747 at takeoff!;)

- Nick

p.s. I know Lisa (iclev) will disagree with me what I said above (at least in her case).;) lol

Slydude
06-05-2017, 06:33 PM
Two questions occurred to me immediately:
1. What, if anything does this mean for future upgrades/changes to the Mac Pro?
2. Who's buying me one of these beasts. In fairness I don't need the top end model. I'd gladly settle for a mid level machine.

Running late with my mosts. I see you guys were thinking the same way.

pigoo3
06-05-2017, 06:38 PM
1. What, if anything does this mean for future upgrades/changes to the Mac Pro?

As Ashwin mentioned. Could be the last nail in the coffin for the Mac Pro (I hope not).


2. Who's buying me one of these beasts. In fairness I don't need the top end model. I'd gladly settle for a mid level machine.

Would an 8-core entry-level model do??;)

- Nick

IWT
06-05-2017, 06:41 PM
I have seen the future - and it's........... expensive.

Ian

pigoo3
06-05-2017, 06:49 PM
It almost always is (or seems that way).;) But honestly. If you look at the price of computers over the years (for example last 6-8 years)...and compare it with the price of automobiles, refrigerators, etc....the price of new computers year after year is not really that bad.:)

- Nick

chscag
06-05-2017, 07:01 PM
What, if anything does this mean for future upgrades/changes to the Mac Pro?

According to Apple, they're not abandoning the Mac Pro and hinted toward a refresh in 2018. However, if the iMac Pro winds up being a best seller for professionals, the Mac Pro will likely put its next foot in the grave.

Slydude
06-05-2017, 07:19 PM
Would an 8-core entry-level model do??;)

- Nick
I could be persuaded to "settle" for that. To whom do I send the bill?;)

pigoo3
06-05-2017, 07:24 PM
However, if the iMac Pro winds up being a best seller for professionals, the Mac Pro will likely put its next foot in the grave.

Sounds like a plausible theory.:) I bet there are marketing folks at Apple just looking for any excuse to kill the Mac Pro.:(

But hey...if the iMac Pro is a home run...and Apple stock goes up...I'm not going to complain;)

- Nick

pigoo3
06-05-2017, 07:24 PM
I could be persuaded to "settle" for that. To whom do I send the bill?;)

Vansmith!;) lol

- Nick

Slydude
06-05-2017, 07:49 PM
Vansmith!;) lol

- Nick
He seems to be AWOL at the moment. Did he perhaps give you or Charlie the authority to act on his behalf?

chscag
06-05-2017, 07:53 PM
The Apple Store site is back up with all the new goodies for sale. $$$ Now if Slydude would let loose with some of that "Red River Casino" money he's been hoarding, he could buy you and I a nice Father's Day gift.

June 18th is coming up fast Sly... :P

Slydude
06-05-2017, 08:05 PM
The Apple Store site is back up with all the new goodies for sale. $$$ Now if Slydude would let loose with some of that "Red River Casino" money he's been hoarding, he could buy you and I a nice Father's Day gift.

June 18th is coming up fast Sly... :P
True but the condition of my bank account isn't likely to change significantly by then. At least not in a positive direction anyway.

Hey wait, doesn't Harry own Apple stock? The success of these machines could improve his stock price right? Perhaps he could spring for a few of these things.

nancyspeed
06-05-2017, 11:07 PM
Well finally I can put my 2008 iMac with Snow Leopard out to pasture. It has been a really great computer.
I'm not getting a Pro, but what should I be looking at?

I do want a 27". I don't know how much storage I need.

chscag
06-06-2017, 12:02 AM
I do want a 27". I don't know how much storage I need.

How much storage do you have on your 2008 iMac? Is it enough? The new 27" iMacs come with a Fusion drive as standard or if you wish to spend some extra $$ you can go for flash storage instead but that drives up the price. My theory is - buy more than you'll need because you never know when you'll need more. ;)

dtravis7
06-06-2017, 04:28 AM
As Ashwin mentioned. Could be the last nail in the coffin for the Mac Pro (I hope not).



Would an 8-core entry-level model do??;)

- Nick

Only 8 cores? I wonder if it would blow down my iPad One! :D Grin


I do have a question. In my checking around I did not see this so far, can the ram be upgraded like the other 27" iMacs?

chscag
06-06-2017, 04:23 PM
I do have a question. In my checking around I did not see this so far, can the ram be upgraded like the other 27" iMacs?

It better be, especially since the configurations go up to 64GB on some models and the iMac Pro even higer with EEC memory.

Hey Dennis: Are you testing "High Sierra" yet? (macOS 10.13.X) The word is that APFS seems to be working ok except for some disk utilities that will have to be re-written.

pigoo3
06-06-2017, 04:44 PM
According to this article (below) iMac Pro RAM will not be user upgradeable!:(

https://9to5mac.com/2017/06/05/imac-pro-ram-and-space-gray-accessories/

- Nick

dtravis7
06-06-2017, 06:28 PM
According to this article (below) iMac Pro RAM will not be user upgradeable!:(

https://9to5mac.com/2017/06/05/imac-pro-ram-and-space-gray-accessories/

- Nick


Great. Pro? Pros are the ones that change RAM and drives. Sure you can plug in external drives but you can NOT do that with RAM!


So basically to me it's a 27" iPad Pro with Xenon CPU. :D

chscag
06-06-2017, 06:43 PM
According to this article (below) iMac Pro RAM will not be user upgradeable!:(

https://9to5mac.com/2017/06/05/imac-pro-ram-and-space-gray-accessories/

- Nick

According to several other articles and photos of the new iMac Pro, the memory modules can be replaced by the user. However, and it's a big however.... the entire back shell has to be removed to expose the memory module slots and clips that hold them in. How hard it is to remove the back shell is anyone's guess? But at least the logic board does not have to be removed as is with the 21.5" iMac before the memory modules are exposed.

That brings up the $64,000 question??? What about the other 27" iMac models? Is the memory in them user replaceable as with the older 27" iMacs? Anyone know?

dtravis7
06-06-2017, 06:58 PM
Charley, go to Apple and look at the Non Pro iMacs. Go to Specs and it clearly says Ram User upgradable. It's the iMac Pro that seems to be Non user upgradeable.

Only way we will know for sure is when IFixit and OWC get their hands on one around December and take it apart. Maybe if you pry it apart you can upgrade it and just no way externally. Time will tell.


Remember this is only on the 27" imacs.

Memory
8GB (two 4GB) of 2400MHz DDR4 memory; four SO-DIMM slots, user accessible

Configurable to 16GB or 32GB

OWC already found out the 21.5 Retina's are soldered in.

chscag
06-06-2017, 07:04 PM
You're right Dennis. According to this article (https://9to5mac.com/2015/10/14/new-27-inch-imac-maximum-ram/) the memory on the non pro 27 iMacs is user replaceable.


Only way we will know for sure is when IFixit and OWC get their hands on one around December and take it apart. Maybe if you pry it apart you can upgrade it and just no way externally. Time will tell.

I just read another article that seems to say the memory modules in the iMac Pro are soldered and not clipped down. I really don't know who to believe now. But you are right, when ifixit or OWC gets their hands on one, that's when we will find out. Actually Dennis, it doesn't matter to me because there's no way I can even afford an iMac Pro. :)

dtravis7
06-06-2017, 09:00 PM
I see your point on the price and being able to afford it but at $5k it's more than some Mac Pros and if it's all soldered, that is not to me at least very Pro oriented!! :D

pigoo3
06-06-2017, 10:11 PM
I think the one thing to keep in mind about the iMac Pro is that it's not for us "normal folks" who use our computers for internet shopping, email, and Facebook.;) It's targeted at people who make their living doing graphics/video work 60+ hours/week. It's as much a tool to these folks...as a Firetruck is to firemen.:)

We would no more spend $4999+ on one of these...than we would have spent $2999 on the new 2013 Mac Pro back in 2013.

But hey. Now that it's 3.5 years later...those $2999 2013 Mac Pro's now can be had on eBay for around $1800.:) Maybe in 3.5 years...these new iMac Pro's will be more affordable at around $3000-$3500!;)

- Nick

Pvee
07-04-2017, 07:34 PM
I was thinking about the price, I build very fast home PC's for around 600.00-800.00. But I was telling my brother that when I was a Manager for GE back around 1983-84, We were allowed to have a IBM PC-AT package that included the Monitor, dos disk and a couple utility disks. The PC had a 8mhz clock. The package was 5000.00. Many of the engineers were using Xt's with up to 32mbytes of ram.
We thought that was pretty neat. I remember the meetings we had when we were trying to determine how we would use PC's and get them to connect with IBM and Honeywell Main frames. There was really some growing pains with all that.

DarrenBeachamp
08-08-2017, 04:31 AM
Of course there's the non-upgradability factor.

Of course, it would be. Everything goes in that direction nowadays. The only way you can "upgrade" is purchasing a whole new device. I can't say I am particularly overwhelmed by this one-option situation. They will say that users became lazy, while in fact, it's all about the profits.
To be fair, I am not talking about Apple alone - it's the common trend.

MacInWin
08-08-2017, 10:34 AM
Face it. Computers, including everything from Apple, are now appliances. You buy them for what you need. We don't customize our refrigerators, or upgrade our ovens, or change the software in the toaster or washing machine, we just use them. Computing is becoming the same thing. You get a machine that does what you want, when it doesn't do that any more, you get a new one.

It's ALWAYS about profits, but in this case, it's just that the technology has moved along to the point where our vision of these devices needs to change to the appliance view.

lclev
08-08-2017, 11:03 AM
Yes sir Ashwin. The price of that 18 core iMac Pro will be interesting!;) And yes...it would seem that the Mac Pro line at best may be on life-support.:(

Comparing the Mac Pro and iMac Pro from the creative professional standpoint. I think a lot of creative professionals (video & graphics folks)...who work in the big office buildings of the big cities around the world...are the sort that don't really care about what's "inside". They just want to put "gas in the car"...and get from point A to point B.

And maybe if the performance of the iMac Pro is justified by saving time (less rendering hours spent on video & graphics projects)...the companies employing these folks won't care about the price either. Will be interesting to see benchmarks for the iMac Pros!:)

I'd like to know what the cooling system is like in an 18-core iMac Pro with top level graphics. Hopefully doesn't sound like a 747 at takeoff!;)

- Nick

p.s. I know Lisa (iclev) will disagree with me what I said above (at least in her case).;) lol

I don't disagree with what you said. I actually agree with you. I just happen to be one of those who like to "tear into" a machine to customize it. That won't be as easy with the iMac Pro. I do believe the days of the big silver box are over for the Mac Pro - :\. It seems Apple wants to create disposable products not user upgradeable ones, which is opposite their green agenda standing.

You are correct when you say most people just want a computer to work fast and have no issues with no effort on their part to maintain it. I do think cooling will be an issue with the iMac Pro especially when it is really being stressed. Yesterday I was encoding video, working in Photoshop, and still had Premiere open with a large project I was working on. The heat my MP was putting out was making the room a/c work to keep the room cool. So I wonder how they are going to address the heat issue. My MP is totally quiet even when it is being stressed. I would not like the sound of a 747 in my room! :Smirk:

We shall see!

Lisa

pigoo3
08-08-2017, 11:45 AM
I do think cooling will be an issue with the iMac Pro especially when it is really being stressed. Yesterday I was encoding video, working in Photoshop, and still had Premiere open with a large project I was working on. The heat my MP was putting out was making the room a/c work to keep the room cool. So I wonder how they are going to address the heat issue.

The newer design Mac Pro (the black trashcan)...is a pretty powerful computer (CPU & GPU). I watched some You Tube stress tests with it...and even stressed out...it's very quiet. Which goes to show a powerful computer doesn't have to be loud (fan noise). Of course this was with a completely redesigned computer.

With the new iMac Pro...it appears that Apple is still working with the same iMac design. So unless the CPU's and GPU's used in the new iMac Pro are extremely cool running (even when stressed)...it would almost seem to be a given that the new iMac Pro when stressed...would almost have to be kind of loud (we shall see).:)

Or at least the folks that can afford $4999+ will see/hear! Lol

- Nick

harryb2448
08-08-2017, 05:33 PM
Following the iMac Pro Nick and early reports are it has a re-designed cooling system with an additional fan.

Time will tell and praying for a great dividend come February.

lclev
08-08-2017, 08:27 PM
I have a friend who uses a 2013 MP trashcan to edit video and create print media. He works at the local cable tv station I take our weekly program to. He loves it and for him, upgrading is not a concern. When it comes time he will pass his MP down to an underling and order the newest latest greatest. It will be interesting to see what that will be.

I on the other hand, will probably be using my trusty silver MP or trolling eBay for a used newer edition. If the iMac Pro should pan out to be the machine they are claiming it will be I might be trolling for one of those. The $4999 cost for a new one is a bit steep for a lowly media creator working for a non-profit.

Lisa

chscag
08-08-2017, 09:01 PM
Interesting thread about the new iMac Pro and noise. However, there are several threads on other forums about how noisy the new 2017 iMacs are. Lots of complaints about the fans revving up to high rpm even during light work. I suspect the more powerful graphics cards in these new 2017 iMacs add to the noise level.

Apple isn't helping the situation by making these new iMacs thinner and thinner with less room inside for cooling.

harryb2448
08-09-2017, 12:18 AM
Get with it guys.

Apple has always had expensive products. In 1991 I paid over $2,500.00 for an original LC complete with 8MB of memory and a 128MB hard drive, what a novelty that was I will NEVER fill it, and an RGB monitor. Now 26 years ago, by my calculations that $2,500.00 would have to be about $9,000.00 today. Us older folk thought we had it made when we hit the $750.00 a week salary range. Kids start on that now.

StephenMarsh
09-27-2017, 09:24 AM
Wow, new iMac Pro is a pretty cool idea!

bbnck
10-01-2017, 11:06 AM
Us older folk thought we had it made when we hit the $750.00 a week salary range. Kids start on that now.

$750 is worth a lot less today that it was 25 years ago.

whiteangelcl
10-08-2017, 08:30 AM
The new iMac Pro is pretty cool but it would be good if it is not that expensive...

bbnck
10-10-2017, 01:23 AM
The new iMac Pro is pretty cool but it would be good if it is not that expensive...

It might be expensive to us, but for a high-end professional user that needs server-grade hardware and performance, it is actually reasonably good value. You should look at how 'expensive' servers can get.