Driving me nuts: cut/paste to move files

Been living with OSX for about three months and love it, but one thing is driving me absolutely nuts: is it truly impossible to cut/paste files?

For example, let's say I navigate in Finder down to /some/path/deep/down/in/the/tree and find a file or directory. I want to move it to /some/path.

• In Windows: control-X (or right-click, cut), navigate to where you want it, and paste.
• In shell: mv
• In Finder: impossible. You have to open another Finder window, navigate to the new place, and drag the file. And of course if you're moving across a network share or filesystems, you have to then delete manually.

It seems like such a basic operation that I must be doing something wrong.

This leads to comic situations when you have a folder with lots of files and directories. You are at the top of a listing that scrolls, and you want to move the file to a folder at the bottom (or vice-versa). You end up...yep, opening yet another Finder window. Much easier to say "mark this as my cut" and then go find the destination and hit paste.

It's really tedious to have to open up multiple finder windows when often I could easily do everything in one (and much faster) if I didn't have to open a second window.

Finder also doesn't bring all windows to front. So let's say you open a couple Finder windows, go off and do something else, and then click on one of your Finder windows. If you want to do some kind of file move, you have to find the other Finder window and bring it to front, or click Window->Bring All to Front. There is no keyboard shortcut for this. Grrr...

I tried a Finder replacement (ForkLift) but it was buggy as ****. Maybe there's a better one?

Again, It seems like such a basic operation that it's got to be pilot error...right? OSX seems to be the only OS I can think of (Windows, Linux, many Unices, etc.) that doesn't offer cut/paste for files/directories.

Yes, that has never been a function of the Mac OS.

I understand your frustration. I think the idea was to stop the vast majority of users who will inadvertently delete a file and have no idea how or where it went when they moved it. You know the type, " I swear I did not do anything and it's gone!!!" I get this all the time at work where we have Windows OS. Which is why I have back ups on all their computers.

Lisa

monk64 said:

Been living with OSX for about three months and love it, but one thing is driving me absolutely nuts: is it truly impossible to cut/paste files?

For example, let's say I navigate in Finder down to /some/path/deep/down/in/the/tree and find a file or directory. I want to move it to /some/path.

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Hello - another disgruntled former (or both) Windows user (like me nearly 3 years ago) - OS X and Windows are just not the same and some re-adjustments are needed - I initially found Finder a pain for the same reasons you outline - I then obtained 'Total Finder' which allowed the use of two Finder windows (w/i just one opened app) and easier file/folder transfer, but the app no longer works w/ El Capitan - not sure which OS X is installed on your machine, but some of my suggestions may be specific to the newer Apple operating systems.

First, there are a number of key combinations that can alter how files are moved between folders or locations - below is just a short list from HERE - if you've not discovered and used these options, then worth memorizing a few (NOW, there is a difference between these maneuvers when moving files on the same drive vs. between network drives).

Second in Finder, have you used the 'tab' option (see the screen capture below - CMD-T will add a tab - I've opened two tabs and labeled each - additional tabs can be added w/ the plus sign, arrow far upper right) - notice the path at the bottom - when a tab is activated, you can 'drill down' to the folder desired, then make another tab active and simply do your file manipulations between the tabs.

Finally, if you are using El Capitan, then multitasking can be done using Split View which allows two active windows - I've not employed the feature much, but you may want to try if applicable to your OS X. Dave

Move items into folders - do any of the following:

Put an item in a folder: Drag it to the folder.

Put several items in a folder: Select the items, then drag one of the items to the folder.

All selected items move to the folder.

Keep an item in its original location and put a copy in a folder: Hold down the Option key, then drag the item to the folder.

Keep an item in its original location and put an alias for it in a new folder: Hold down the Option and Command keys, then drag the item to the folder.

Make a copy of an item within the same folder: Select the item, then choose File > Duplicate or press Command-D.

Copy files to a different disk: Drag the files to the disk. To move files to a different disk without copying them, hold down the Command key, then drag the files to the disk.

Click to expand...

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You do realize that CMD-C and CMD-V will copy and paste a file, right? I haven't tested CMD-X because to me that's risky. I don't want to delete a file until I've safely copied it. Yes, there is a one-step move command, but if you've ever lost a file in that transition you won't do it again.

MacInWin said:

You do realize that CMD-C and CMD-V will copy and paste a file, right? I haven't tested CMD-X because to me that's risky. I don't want to delete a file until I've safely copied it. Yes, there is a one-step move command, but if you've ever lost a file in that transition you won't do it again.

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Hi Jake - well, I assumed our OP has at least learned those commands but good reminder - Now, I do use CMD-X - removes a file immediately and adds it to the clipboard - but for those who want to give the key combo a try, remember to do an immediate paste or indeed the file is gone if another item is added to the clipboard. I also like CMD-Z for 'Undo' which I think of as my recovery savior - Dave

so very true Jake

http://www.mac-forums.com/os-x-operating-system/302847-files-lost-cut-paste-file-transfer.html

The reasoning behind not using command-x (cut) is pretty self-explanatory to me:

1. Windows people lose stuff ALL. THE. TIME by cutting a file and then SQUIRREL! or a pop-up notification or a distraction or something happens and they forget to paste before they cut/copy something else. Seen it SO many times when assisting Windows people, sometimes right there while I am watching them! People have no attention span these days.

2. As mentioned above, the clipboard can only hold one item at a time. Again, have ACTUALLY WATCHED Windows people "cut" several files in a row and then wonder what happened. *headdesk*

3. In both cases, the user was *furious* at ... THE COMPANY (Microsoft/Windows or whoever made their computer) ... NEVER themselves. To coin a phrase "Apple ain't got time for that!"

MacInWin said:

You do realize that CMD-C and CMD-V will copy and paste a file, right?

Click to expand...

Yes, but then I have to go back and manually move to trash.

MacInWin said:

I haven't tested CMD-X because to me that's risky. I don't want to delete a file until I've safely copied it. Yes, there is a one-step move command, but if you've ever lost a file in that transition you won't do it again.

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Understand the concern but that actually cannot happen. Under the covers, the BSD kernel is doing an atomic system call - the move and delete are not separate operations. (OK, true, it's not like Apple shares their source code with me, but I know how it works on every other BSD and Apple is a BSD OS, and they'd have little reason to rewrite something that's been standard Unix since the 70s).

chas_m said:

The reasoning behind not using command-x (cut) is pretty self-explanatory to me:

1. Windows people lose stuff ALL. THE. TIME by cutting a file and then SQUIRREL! or a pop-up notification or a distraction or something happens and they forget to paste before they cut/copy something else. Seen it SO many times when assisting Windows people, sometimes right there while I am watching them! People have no attention span these days.

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Um...what? That is not the way Windows works.

chas_m said:

2. As mentioned above, the clipboard can only hold one item at a time. Again, have ACTUALLY WATCHED Windows people "cut" several files in a row and then wonder what happened. *headdesk*

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You can "cut" multiple files in a row, but if you cut File A, and then cut File B, Windows forgets about File A and File B is your current cut. You won't lose File A. If you cut, it's "marked" and grayed (which is just a visual effect), but it's only moved if you then paste in an explorer window. If you go to a different file and select cut there, the first file is released and left where it is. If you switch to a different app, and then cut/paste, the original file is released.

In other words, Windows takes note of your intent but does nothing (other than change the file's icon in explorer to gray) until you paste. You really can't lose files via cut.

@RadDave, thanks! Just experimented (hadn't noticed that feature) and it's kind of interesting...if I drag a file to the tab, the view switches after a couple seconds, so you can pick up and move files. I don't like the pause when I have to hover over another tab but it's still worlds better.

I liked ForkLift's split view, but the app was buggy for me. I know there are other Finder replacements out there...maybe I'll have to look some more.

Thanks all for your help! At least I know I'm not crazy ;D

Understand the concern but that actually cannot happen.

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Actually it CAN and HAS happened. The thread in the link in post#7 shows exactly how it can and did happen. But since you now seem to be an expert on the OS, I'm done here. Good luck with it. My personal suggestion is that you go back to Windows, where it works like you want. No sarcasm intended, this was a serious suggestion. OS X is not everybody's cup of tea. Life is too short to put up with annoyances you can avoid.

MacInWin said:

Actually it CAN and HAS happened. The thread in the link in post#7 shows exactly how it can and did happen.

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Two different things. If you cut/paste multiple files and interrupt it, then yes, everything is not magically put back the way it was. But for a single file, you can't lose a file via cut because it's not deleted until after the copy is completed. Even if it's a huge file and halfway through you hit cancel, the original file isn't deleted. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

MacInWin said:

But since you now seem to be an expert on the OS, I'm done here. Good luck with it. My personal suggestion is that you go back to Windows, where it works like you want.

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WOW. I really don't think I deserved that. I am just here sharing what I know and trying to learn like everyone else.

I've done sysadmin work as an IT professional for decades, mostly with Windows machines, and I too am a died-in-the-wool cut and paster. Never lost data that way, Ctrl-Z does an Undo just like any other cut/copy/paste function.

That said, I use a nifty little Finder enhancement in OS X called TotalFinder. Been using it for years without issue, happily cutting/copying and pasting files. It also has a wonderful 'split screen' window function, which reminds me of the great file managers of yore (I'm thinking of Directory Opus.... God I wish they made it for OS X, since Finder is such a piece of crap).

Old time Mac users want you to do everything the Mac way, even if it's outmoded. To me, drag and dropping (particularly through layers of folders) is far more clunky. It's unfortunate that those that disagree can't do so with a bit more tact.

cwa107 said:

That said, I use a nifty little Finder enhancement in OS X called TotalFinder. Been using it for years without issue, happily cutting/copying and pasting files. It also has a wonderful 'split screen' window function, which reminds me of the great file managers of yore (I'm thinking of Directory Opus.... God I wish they made it for OS X, since Finder is such a piece of crap).

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Checked out TF and looks like to use it on El Cap you have to disable SIP, and the developer has stopped working on it and suspects it won't work beyond El Cap. Bummer.

I'm going to check out some various Finder alternatives (the TF developer recommends Commander One) and will report back.

monk64 said:

Checked out TF and looks like to use it on El Cap you have to disable SIP, and the developer has stopped working on it and suspects it won't work beyond El Cap. Bummer.

I'm going to check out some various Finder alternatives (the TF developer recommends Commander One) and will report back.

Click to expand...

I saw that and disabled SIP. I'm hopeful that the developer changes their mind as disabling SIP is quick and easy (though I'm sure that Apple will find ways to make it more difficult going forward). SIP is a great enhancement for neophytes, but I don't think you and I are in danger of being characterized that way

Holy crow, Commander One looks awesome. Might have to give that a whirl! Thanks!!

I've done work on AIX, HP-UX, Unix, Linux (starting with version 0.1), SUSE, Ubuntu, RedHat, Fedora and a couple of other "flavors" of Unix and Linux derivatives that I've forgotten, MS-DOS, PC-DOS, CP/M, Windows (starting with Windows 1.0 and running through Windows 10) and now OS X. (Oh, and MVT, MVS, VM, plus OS/2, TRS-DOS and raw hex input to registers on a developmental hand-built system. I did start too late for hard wiring program boards, it had been deprecated when I started, but my Dad was a programmer in the 60's on the old IBM 700 series systems so I know what was involved.) And in the 40 years I spent with those systems, I have learned NOT to trust the "one step" process to move files. Yes, it is mildly annoying to have to go back and erase the copy from the original location, but it's far less annoying than having to do a recovery process when the one-step method fails. Which it does, and has, on every one of those derivations I listed. As for dragging and dropping, if you show the path bar in Finder, then you can drag/drop (or CMD-C/CMD-V) to any of the levels in the path bar. Combine that capability with a tab open to your destination and you now can drag from one tab to the other or to any folder on the path bar of the other. Deleting the original now is one right-click and a click on Send to Trash. Pretty easy, IMHO. I don't use the icon view, I use List view (the meta-information on the file is more easy to deal with and the icons don't seem very helpful to me) but the same approach should apply in the Icon view as well.

CMD-Z to undo is nice, but it, too, can fail. The adage is, "Never let go of one rung of the ladder until you have a firm grip on the next rung." That safety adage applies, IMHO, to file moves.

Again, if you don't like way the operating system does things, then perhaps the operating system isn't for you. As I said,

No sarcasm intended, this was a serious suggestion. OS X is not everybody's cup of tea. Life is too short to put up with annoyances you can avoid.

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That wasn't meant to be tact-less, or to slam the original poster, but was a serious suggestion. Not everyone adjusts to OS X (or Windows, or Ubuntu, or what-have-you) well. And life IS too short to put up with annoyances when options exist. Coming from Windows to OS X wasn't without a learning curve back when I did it, and I had experience with Unix/Linux for years to make it easier, but the benefit was that having climbed that curve I find OS X to be intuitive to use now. But not everyone wants to make those changes, and they don't have to. Windows is a pretty good operating system and if it works for you, it works for you.

BTW, I suspect that pretty soon Apple will disable the ability to turn off SIP, so all of you who have taken that step need to start thinking of how you are going to react to that. I had Total Finder and gave it up when I read that I had to disable SIP to keep it. Weighing the two, keeping SIP won out for me. YMMV.

When people are determined to compromise their system's security and otherwise be stupid, don't bother trying to stop them. Save your energy and enthusiasm for people with an open mind.

MacInWin said:

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BTW, I suspect that pretty soon Apple will disable the ability to turn off SIP, so all of you who have taken that step need to start thinking of how you are going to react to that. I had Total Finder and gave it up when I read that I had to disable SIP to keep it. Weighing the two, keeping SIP won out for me. YMMV.

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As mentioned in my post, I was also a Total Finder user and came to the same conclusion as Jake after upgrading to El Capitan, i.e. I'd rather live w/o the app - also reviewed the options on the developer's site (and don't have much hope for an update); in addition, took a look at Commander One based on the suggestion there and thought that my needs were pretty much satisfied w/ the tab features of Finder as explained previously, so decided not to explore further - of course, one can have an 'Apple Wishlist' - they added tabbing and 'Split View' allows two open apps, so seems like a easy step to have Finder opened w/ two active tabs - don't know? Dave

chas_m said:

When people are determined to compromise their system's security and otherwise be stupid, don't bother trying to stop them. Save your energy and enthusiasm for people with an open mind.

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Oh, the irony.

If my mind was any more open it would leak out of my head!

I'm just not interested in expending the time or energy to help someone who is really just looking for validation of their opinion rather than actual help. We all have our biases, but in the face of facts to the contrary we have to be willing to question our assumptions. I do this all the time, and learn a lot here as a result. If I sense that we're dealing with someone not willing to do that, I prefer to just move on -- there are plenty of other people who really do want help.