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chas_m
04-15-2015, 07:11 AM
First Look: All-new 12-inch Apple MacBook | Electronista (http://www.electronista.com/articles/15/04/14/apple.takes.lessons.from.mobile.to.make.the.ultima te.ultraportable.notebook/)

lclev
04-15-2015, 11:52 PM
I love the way it looks - the keyboard is awesome. Love the gold color too. For what it is intended for it is great. One deal breaker for me - no USB - just one and I would have been happy.

Sign...

Lisa

pm-r
04-16-2015, 12:31 AM
Or this…????
12-inch MacBook teardown provides closer look at its tiny motherboard, terraced battery design
12-inch MacBook teardown provides closer look at its tiny motherboard, terraced battery design | 9to5Mac (http://9to5mac.com/2015/04/14/12-inch-macbook-teardown/)

chas_m
04-16-2015, 02:02 AM
I haven't gotten my hands on one yet, so I can only live vicariously through others like the guy who wrote the piece I linked to. I'm less concerned about the USB-C port (which can be converted into a "normal" USB port with a cheap adapter, or for that matter an expensive adapter if you want it to do other things as well) than I am about the travel on the keys. For me, that is a crucial factor.

Like a lot of veteran Mac users, when I first saw/heard about this at the presentation I was all like "whaaaat?" and annoyed about the lack of Magsafe and Thunderbolt (Apple's own invention fer cryin' out loud!). On reflection, however, I'm certainly starting to understand their reasoning. The lack of TB is Apple's willingness not to impose a standard that is going to remain kind of pricey and "pro user"-y on the market this machine is aimed at, which is simply NOT the pro user. Very few people who own a MacBook Air make serious use of the TB port on that machine. In a year or two USB-C, on the other hand, will be everywhere, and cheaply.

But the target market for this machine barely even needs the one port, apart from charging. This is not, as some have said, an iPad with a keyboard. It's a refined MacBook Air. The selling point of the Air has always been mobility in both weight and battery life. The new MB throws in a Retina display and *still* ups the ante on both weight and battery life. The type of users who prize battery life and mobility/weight above all are not, for the most part, us. They are students and writers and mobile social creatures, and maybe business people who don't use anything more hardcore than Office (that would be MOST business users, come to think of it).

To put this another way: I'm not comfortable with anything less than a car for wheeled vehicle travel. It has features motorbikes don't have. I like motorbikes, but could never rely on it as a sole mode of transport. So I need a car, minimum, both for what I do and the way I like to do it.

The new MacBook is a scooter, and appeals to the scooter generation. And scooters are cool, just not for me.

PS. I still think not including magsafe was a mistake, because it comes off easily when you trip on it. But I now understand Apple's logic on this: this thing doesn't need to be plugged in much when its out and about, which reduces tripping risk even more than Magsafe. You're supposed to charge this thing while you're sleeping.

dtravis7
04-16-2015, 06:37 AM
A very accurate and good review at Anandtech. Even though Anand moved on to work for Apple, the team he put in place still does excellent and very thorough reviews.

The 2015 MacBook Review (http://www.anandtech.com/show/9136/the-2015-macbook-review)

I very much agree with their review. My only issue for what you get is the price. Otherwise it's nice for it's intended audience but it's not for people like me. I would rather use a tablet for less $$$ and keep a better performing Notebook for my real work.

bobtomay
04-16-2015, 07:12 AM
If I end up moving to an iMac or Mac Pro here at home instead of a notebook, I def can see the MB as the next logical step for me. I've already gone through 2 iPads, 3 Kindles, and 2 Nexuses. Just sold my last tablet a few days ago because the thing just sat on my desk unused. I could pick it up and go lay down. If I was doing anything other than reading a book, it took maybe 5 minutes before I was up and going back to exchange it for my MBA. Everytime I took it out of the house, I always wished I had my MBA instead.

Practically everytime I pick up a tablet I find myself wanting either a physical keyboard, a bigger screen, a real operating system or some combination of those. Now to see if I can remember that the next time one of those shiny objects catches my eye.

dtravis7
04-16-2015, 07:24 AM
For reading in bed and laying down a tablet is great. For much else if it goes beyond a simple search I also get up and go to a real computer! :D Grin

So I agree with Bob!

bobtomay
04-16-2015, 07:36 AM
My other problem, after getting use to listening to audio books for many years now, it seems I much prefer having someone else read them to me than having to hold a book or tablet and the need to put it down when I want to go puttering around outside or in the garage or driving or... iPhone or iPod, earbuds and a good book And after listening to D*** Hill on the Jack Reacher series had to look for other books he's done and am on the last book in the Corps series by W.E.B. Griffin now.

edit:
We really need to remove that word from the ban list. I can't even remember the last time someone tried to use that as a curse word here. It is some folks name after all.

dtravis7
04-16-2015, 07:48 AM
The forums software does not like D ick Hill! :D Grin

Edit:
I do agree as most people who cuss don't really use that word.

chscag
04-16-2015, 03:22 PM
Practically everytime I pick up a tablet I find myself wanting either a physical keyboard, a bigger screen, a real operating system or some combination of those. Now to see if I can remember that the next time one of those shiny objects catches my eye.

Couldn't agree more Tom. I really like the iPad Air 2 but as nice as it is, it still isn't a real computer. I was at the Navy Exchange last week in Fort Worth.... they had a MBA 11" model (older model) on sale for $667 (no sales tax). I almost bought it but the SSD and amount of memory fell short. Other than that, it's really a nice machine to carry around.

I'll probably buy a new 11" MBA sometime before the Summer. My 27" iMac is just not portable enough. :P

RavingMac
04-16-2015, 09:55 PM
I guess I'm the outlier. My Retina iPad Mini is constantly in my hands. The iPad Air gets some use, and my MBPs get very little love . . .

TattooedMac
04-17-2015, 12:31 AM
A very accurate and good review at Anandtech. Even though Anand moved on to work for Apple, the team he put in place still does excellent and very thorough reviews.

The 2015 MacBook Review (http://www.anandtech.com/show/9136/the-2015-macbook-review)I very much agree with their review. My only issue for what you get is the price. Otherwise it's nice for it's intended audience but it's not for people like me. I would rather use a tablet for less $$$ and keep a better performing Notebook for my real work.

As to the price of this MB Dennis, I read a article a few days ago by Cnet Apple MacBook (12-inch, 2015) review - CNET (http://www.cnet.com/products/apple-macbook-2015/) that priced the MacBook 12" as the cheapest, when they looked at similar Notebooks from other Brands. Priced vary competitively :)


By way of comparison, the 13-inch MacBook Air starts at $999, but a similar 8GB/256GB configuration will cost the same $1,299. The 13-inch MacBook Pro starts at the same $1,299 as this new MacBook, but with only half the storage. Upgrading that Pro model to the same 8GB/256GB will cost $1,499. And on the Windows side, a Samsung Ativ Book 9 with the same 8GB RAM/256GB flash drive and the same processor -- will cost you $1,399 (all prices in US dollars). So, in the context of its main rivals, the MacBook is actually priced rather competitively.


I guess I'm the outlier. My Retina iPad Mini is constantly in my hands. The iPad Air gets some use, and my MBPs get very little love . . .

I have been trying out Keyboard Cases for the iPad Air 2, and I have finally decided on one, the BELKIN QODE Ultimate Pro Keyboard Case for iPad Air 2 . . . I have had to get it from the US, as there isn't a single one, anywhere in Australia, as I have bought 2 off eBay, and both sellers came back with "We have no more of these left, and Belkin won't be supplying us with anymore" :( So Amazon was my friend.

I love it, and have used it for quite a bit of work, but without a Full keyboard (which the QODE™ is the ONLY Keyboard Case for iPad Air 2 with the same amount of keys as the Notebook range) I think I will get a lot of use out of it. Im seriously looking at the 12" MB though to replace my 13"MBP with 256GB SSD and 750GB HD and 16GB RAM, as I use my iMac for all the coding, and RAM intensive Apps, and I'm pretty sure I could Build a Website on the MB w/out too much trouble.

I have found with the iPad Air 2, I can watch 6 40 minute TV Episodes on it, and it only drops to 50% battery, so with that and the MacBook, I think it will cover all bases, and then use the iMac, for my Photo Work and Xcode.
I am rid of Adobe, now there is Affinity Designer, and Affinity Photo coming out soon, as its still in a Beat that is actually really stable.

chas_m
04-17-2015, 05:28 AM
I have (long story) about three spare BT keyboards around the place, so whenever I want to go out I always ask myself what type of writing I'm going to be doing.

If it's something that involves complex research, I'll pack up the MacBook Pro. But I always wish for something lighter.

If it's a straight piece of writing (fiction) that comes mostly out of my head, then I take the iPad Air 2 and a keyboard case (or a full-size keyboard and a case for it). Much lighter and easier to carry, easy to set up and use, battery life is fantastic, and I love the vertical orientation for long-form writing. It's also, as everyone has pointed out, great for reading, general surfing, and FBing.

XJ-linux
04-17-2015, 03:15 PM
It looks nice. I won't be buying one, though I might have been swayed if it had an additional port for charging. I use VM's for working from home and as such use power and USB drives all the time, so this is a nonstarter for me. I'll pass and wait until the MBA comes with 16GB of RAM, or get something else entirely when mine dies or I get bored with it.

zewazir
04-17-2015, 03:55 PM
I can appreciate the focus on ultra-portability of the new MacBook. As an avid backpacker, I fully understand the times when every ounce counts.

However, for what it does, I simply think the $1300 price tag for the minimum configuration is just plain way too high. If they were to knock about $300-400 off the price, I could see wanting one when the primary consideration is the ideal compromise between portability and power.

As is, however, I think most people who want that ideal will be better off with the MBA11", saving $200 for a better processor and putting up with the extra 3 ounces.

chscag
04-20-2015, 11:47 AM
Anyone plan on buying the new MacBook might want to read this article (http://www.macworld.com/article/2910314/apples-new-12-inch-macbook-closely-guards-its-secrets-with-screws-solder-and-glue.html#tk.nl_mwbest) from Macworld Magazine first.

Seems it's a nightmare to repair and the iFixit folks give it a 1 out of 10 for repairability; 1 being the worst score. Macworld recommends that if you buy it, you also need to buy Apple Care.

TattooedMac
04-21-2015, 10:56 PM
Anyone plan on buying the new MacBook might want to read this article (http://www.macworld.com/article/2910314/apples-new-12-inch-macbook-closely-guards-its-secrets-with-screws-solder-and-glue.html#tk.nl_mwbest) from Macworld Magazine first.

Seems it's a nightmare to repair and the iFixit folks give it a 1 out of 10 for repairability; 1 being the worst score. Macworld recommends that if you buy it, you also need to buy Apple Care.

I've never bought AppleCare before, but IF I went ahead and bought the MacBook (Im seriously thinking on the next update) then this would be a given, since its a all-in-one unit, and no way of doing anything yourself.

I have also read a LOT about this new addition, on blogs, Tech Sites and many pother places, and there is a lot of negativity about this Macbook, but what none of them have cared to mention, is that it is aimed at new group of people, and them only.
this would be the equivalent to a NetBook IMO, where the owner, would use it primarily as a Web Browser, and writing on it, and that is it.
Yes it can Turbo Boost and I'm pretty sure Apps like the new Affinity Designer, which is a ⅓ of the size of PS, and in the work I have done in it, uses significantly less CPU than PS, but its still a writers, students notebook.
It fits into a group, that you wouldn't even put the MBA into.

For what it is, and what it does, I really like it, but like anything of Apple I have bought, I will wait to see if they can Improve on it, across the board in the 2nd Gen before I seriously look at it. $1799 AUD for the low end MacBook :(

chscag
04-22-2015, 12:22 AM
Yeah, I agree with you Brent. Lots of $$ whether Australian, Canadian, or US, to spend on a netbook. The author of that article I linked above brings forth some things that maybe most folks haven't thought out before buying. No doubt though that it's a travelers dream as long as you only need it for what has been mentioned.

cwa107
05-06-2015, 03:20 PM
I have been trying out Keyboard Cases for the iPad Air 2, and I have finally decided on one, the BELKIN QODE Ultimate Pro Keyboard Case for iPad Air 2 . . .

I have one of these babies and I really like it. Really the only nit I have to pick is that the keyboard goes to "sleep" after a very short timeframe. So, then you have to wake it by hitting a key and then wait 5-10 seconds for it to start talking to the iPad. That said, the battery lasts forever (I have yet to charge it and I've had it for a few months now) the key touch and positioning is fantastic and I LOVE being able to easily detach the keyboard so that I can just use it as a tablet when that makes the most sense. Even better, the little lip for the speakers that channels the sound to you, is a really nice bonus too.

Oh, and I also use it with the Apple Smart Cover on occasion and it works well with that as well.

I agree - with one of these puppies, I have little need for a laptop. In fact, my MBP very seldom leaves its mStand. The only area where it's lacking is mouse support. If iOS would just support BT mice for situations where mice make sense (personally, I'd use it with Citrix), I would just buy an iMac and be done with the MBP altogether.

TattooedMac
05-07-2015, 10:14 PM
I have one of these babies and I really like it. Really the only nit I have to pick is that the keyboard goes to "sleep" after a very short timeframe. So, then you have to wake it by hitting a key and then wait 5-10 seconds for it to start talking to the iPad. That said, the battery lasts forever (I have yet to charge it and I've had it for a few months now) the key touch and positioning is fantastic and I LOVE being able to easily detach the keyboard so that I can just use it as a tablet when that makes the most sense. Even better, the little lip for the speakers that channels the sound to you, is a really nice bonus too.

Oh, and I also use it with the Apple Smart Cover on occasion and it works well with that as well.

I agree - with one of these puppies, I have little need for a laptop. In fact, my MBP very seldom leaves its mStand. The only area where it's lacking is mouse support. If iOS would just support BT mice for situations where mice make sense (personally, I'd use it with Citrix), I would just buy an iMac and be done with the MBP altogether.

You are correct in everything you have said here Chris.

This really is the Ultimate Pro Keyboard for iPad. I have written quite a lot on it, and as you said the keys are great. I can actually type a little faster on the Ultimate Pro than my MBP keyboard.
I bought Ulysses App, for iPad and Mac (got them on sale) and because it has TextExpander capabilities, thats my goto writing App now. Its a MarkDown App, but can be exported in .txt, .pdf, .md, and/or .ePub. I write a lot of reviews on it, and if I'm doing a big post in Mac-Forums, I write it there, for the TE feature. I have something like 300+ snippets I use everyday.
I have noticed that the BT does drop out if you don't use it for a while, but like you its a little quirk. I have found too, that if its left for hours, then BT doesn't wake up, so I close the iPad up, open it again, and then the Magnets register and wake it up. *** If you have major issues with the BT, you can reset it by holding down all 4 corner buttons for about 10sec.

I also have a Smart Cover, and love that it can be taken off and with the protective case is a added bonus. I did have a Smart Case, but sent that back, when I sent the ZAGG Folio back. I liked the ZAGG, but the one thing I really wanted in it was stability and the ZAGG didn't have it. When opened up, if it wasn't on a table that was perfectly flat, when you touched the iPad, it would topple backwards, and adding to that, when it was on the table, and you touched the iPad, the whole thing was springy, so would wobble, and that meant I had to grab it with my left hand, and tap with my right and that was ugly.
I originally went with the ZAGG because it was $70 cheaper than the Belkin, but now I have it, I wouldn't swap it for even the Clam Case. The Clam would of been nice, if it had backlit keyboard, and could detach.

With the Ultimate, I like that the sound is channelled towards you, and have watched so much Netflix on it, I don't even need my TV anymore . . . JK but seriously, having the Elgato Diversity Tuner, I really could do away with it ;)
All, in all its a great case, and with some awesome Apps out there now, Prompt 2 (I can ssh back to my iMac), Ulysses, Textastic (Can write code), Transmit (download straight from my iMac/Server), Diet Coda, Air Video HD, 1Password, Safari, and a few other ones, I would love the ability to use a BT mouse, and if that ever came in, that feature would be a killer . . . Probably for the MacBook, MBA and MBP . .. . .
One other thing to mention too, is it has a lot of the NoteBook keyboard capabilities too, which makes its so close to using one of the above Macs . . . .

PS: If anyone in Aust looking for one of these, don't buy from **** Smiths, the only Australian supplier, because they don't have any in stock, and won't be getting any soon. Buy straight from Amazon, and you will have it in 3-4 days . . .


From my iPad Air 2

chas_m
05-08-2015, 04:06 AM
Seems it's a nightmare to repair and the iFixit folks give it a 1 out of 10 for repairability; 1 being the worst score. Macworld recommends that if you buy it, you also need to buy Apple Care.

You could be talking here about every Mac Apple sells these days apart from the non-Retina MBP and the Mac Pro. You're quoting (or Macworld is quoting) a company that has a vested interest in doing repairs and selling people repair kits.

But as you know, most people *never* repair a Mac. Even among the few who do, there isn't much in the Apple lineup you can actually fix. And yet, Apple sells as many Macs in a quarter these days as they used to in entire years just a few years ago.

The fact of the matter is that, barring a lemon off the line, Macs are incredibly reliable and consequently have little need of "repair," particularly since optical drives (the previous #2 source of repair issues) and hard drives (the #1 source of repair issues) got the heave-ho.

Go into any independent Mac repair place and you will see for yourself: the bulk of the work is on pre-2012 machines (usually much older), and any new models you see are probably there either because they got thrown down a flight of stairs or they're in for a storage or RAM upgrade.

All this worrywarting about iMacs ("what do I do if the screen dies?") stuff has been proven (over the last nearly 20 years!) to be largely malarky, and reliability has only improved with time. The fact that the screen is part and parcel of the device hasn't proven a concern for either the Mac or Windows worlds: notebooks handily outsell desktops, and phones (which are also "all-in-one" devices) outsell both desktops and notebooks. The "single point of failure" argument that has been applied to all-in-ones, then notebooks, then ultrabooks, has simply not been seen to hold any water over a very long period of time.

"Repairability" is simply not a valid concern in the modern era of computers. It's still a thing for white box builders and people who want to hold on to their computer for a decade-plus: but that's not how the vast majority of users work.

I say this as someone who chose to buy a 2012 MacBook Pro rather than a new one a year or so ago *specifically* because I wanted to up the RAM and replace the hard drive (found out later the non-Retinas don't stop you from doing this, even now). But I'm not a typical Mac user: my wife is much more of one -- needs very little storage, because everything's in the cloud, needs very little RAM because most of the "apps" she works with are websites, doesn't either of the two USB ports the thing has on it except to import photos.

She wouldn't say no if I bought her something newer, but until this thing stops running a supported OS version there's literally no reason for her to even consider buying another machine. The reality is that most Mac users are more like her than like me, and that's who the Retina MacBook is aimed at.

lclev
05-09-2015, 05:58 PM
Well I took a trip to the Apple Store to check out the watch and new macbook. I'll stick to the macbook for this post.

I loved the looks of the gold and the retina display (and I hate to admit this) is nice...ok gorgeous... crisp clear vibrant....sigh... it's beautiful.

It is also small, light and very thin. For me a 12" display is a bit small. It is sturdy and would make a great travel laptop.

I don't really care for the USB-C charging/multi use port. I am just klutzy enough to trip over the cord. I also really miss the lack of a USB for external drives. Which means I would have to have the adapter.

I did mess with one. Changed the system setting to what I like and popped open some programs, closed them, and generally checked out the responsiveness. I found it a bit laggy as I compared it to my MB Air with an i5 and 4gb of memory. The Macbook was the base model with 8gb and the 1.1 dual core M. Minor but noticeable.

For the market it is intended for, I think it will do well. There was certainly a whole hoard of people gathered around the display table where they had them out. They were doing a demo and people seemed impressed.

Just my 2 cents!

Lisa

chas_m
05-12-2015, 04:12 AM
I don't really care for the USB-C charging/multi use port. I am just klutzy enough to trip over the cord. I also really miss the lack of a USB for external drives. Which means I would have to have the adapter.


Not to take issue with your assessment, but I think the user Apple envisions for this device would never have it plugged in except for overnight, so that probably eliminates the "klutz" issue. Users might need a USB-A adapter for the backup drive, but would probably also be the type to use wireless backup systems, so not much need for that adapter on a routine basis.

cwa107
05-12-2015, 08:30 AM
Not to take issue with your assessment, but I think the user Apple envisions for this device would never have it plugged in except for overnight, so that probably eliminates the "klutz" issue. Users might need a USB-A adapter for the backup drive, but would probably also be the type to use wireless backup systems, so not much need for that adapter on a routine basis.

Chas, sometimes I think that if Apple put a bowtie on a turd, you'd be here to tell us how the smell won't bother most and how great of an invention it would be for those who enjoy feces.

chas_m
05-12-2015, 03:32 PM
And sometimes I think you willfully misinterpret a positive attitude (that I try to have about nearly everything) as being an apologist, which I find grossly offensive. How is pointing out that the Retina MacBook is designed for users different in style to your typical Mac-Forums member (ie power user) "putting a bowtie on a turd" exactly? I'd like a specific explanation for that from you, please, or an apology.

As it happens I used my wife as an example of a "modern" Mac user. Or is she an "apologist" as well because she uses her MacBook Air on battery all the time and only plugs it in to charge it, and only uses the USB port to transfer pictures?

lclev
05-12-2015, 03:52 PM
I get the idea of only charging it at night. But currently I believe they are claiming a 9 hour battery on the new Macbook. I get 12 hours (give or take what I am doing) and I have days I run that out and have to charge it.

I also have a bad habit of grabbing my Air up to take it to another room only to have the charger cable drop off safely as I forgot it was still on the charger. I yanked many a Windows laptop cable out of it's socket before my conversion from the "dark side". AND I am sure I am not unique - there has to be other klutzes like me in the world ... some where... :Cool:

Also the lack of a regular USB port for me is an issue....but it sure is cute to look at! ;)

Lisa

cwa107
05-12-2015, 04:24 PM
And sometimes I think you willfully misinterpret a positive attitude (that I try to have about nearly everything) as being an apologist, which I find grossly offensive. How is pointing out that the Retina MacBook is designed for users different in style to your typical Mac-Forums member (ie power user) "putting a bowtie on a turd" exactly? I'd like a specific explanation for that from you, please, or an apology.

Chas, I have never seen you be critical of an Apple product of any sort in the time I've interacted with you here. Any negative design decisions have been defended vehemently regardless of how egregious they are. The MacBook is a netbook by any definition, albeit price. Despite that princely sum, it was very deliberately hobbled with a single port so that customers who wanted to do common tasks, such as connect a camera while charging the device, would be forced into buying an even more overpriced dongle. It would be different if Apple included the dongle, or even if they had a true technical reason for omitting a MagSafe port, but they don't.

If this were priced more inline with a netbook, it could be forgivable, but as it stands, it's an blatantly profit-driven design decision, hence the reason I equate it to a turd. You will undoubtedly say at this point that I am seeing it from the perspective of a power user, but I'm not. Here sits the same guy who will aggressively recommend an iPad Air 2 over a comparable Samsung or other pan-Asian generic tablet device at a fraction of the price, because I believe it represents a solid value in comparison to the junk produced by said companies. It too has a single port, but its hardware, processor and OS were built from the ground up to be as wireless as possible. It's also not a general purpose computing device in the same way a device bearing the "MacBook" moniker is (or should be).

Quite honestly, I believe Apple - and all those who blindly defend it in this case - should be ashamed.



As it happens I used my wife as an example of a "modern" Mac user. Or is she an "apologist" as well because she uses her MacBook Air on battery all the time and only plugs it in to charge it, and only uses the USB port to transfer pictures?

I believe your wife is a rare usage case, and since she isn't here defending the faith, I wouldn't call her an apologist.

vansmith
05-12-2015, 05:11 PM
And sometimes I think you willfully misinterpret a positive attitude (that I try to have about nearly everything) as being an apologist, which I find grossly offensive.To be fair, you are awfully defensive and have a way of using language in such a way that would signal an ardent defence of everything Apple. You've called minor things brilliant (http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/os-x-operating-system/265026-locked-files.html#post1362383), iPhoto "a superb organizer" (http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/switcher-hangout/246683-iphoto-question.html#post1278750) despite a user's request for more power over organization, and you've recommended that new users "just go with Apple's flow" because, I quote, "You will be blown away" (http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/switcher-hangout/208133-sage-advice-new-mac-switcher.html#post1082149) (original emphasis).

Even more subtle than this though is your penchant to capitalize words that are all ultimately adjectives of the word "great": "the bundled programs on your Mac are **INCREDIBLE** in terms of quality and design" (http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/switcher-hangout/208133-sage-advice-new-mac-switcher.html#post1082149), "If your eyesight is good, I'd strongly recommend an iPad mini. Cheap and AMAZING" (http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/switcher-hangout/311074-ipad-blanking-off.html#post1582077) and "I WARN YOU RIGHT NOW: you're going to fall IN LOVE with the thing. I'm not kidding." (http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/switcher-hangout/298386-ebook-software-hardware.html#post1512233). You've even used this capitalization technique in ways that are borderline deceptive. For example, you note that, "iCloud does INSTANT push syncing of calendars, contacts and email (and bookmarks, but they don't mention it much). That's HUGE" (http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/switcher-hangout/253644-do-i-need-icloud.html#post1311034) without acknowledging that, one iCloud is just CalDAV and fetches (or pulls, not pushes) calendar appointments, and two, iCloud was hardly the first either at all or the first supported calendar sync for iOS.

Even moments in which you criticize Apple, it's often when something else Apple does supersedes it. For example, despite your earlier defence of iPhoto as superb, you argue that, "Photos' editing tools are in fact that strongest aspect of the program and are considerably better in every respect to iPhoto's editing tools." (http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/images-graphic-design-digital-photography/324608-question-about-photos-making-album.html) That is, of course, made easier when you emphatically state that those who don't see things the way you do are close minded (http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/apple-rumors-reports/315191-apple-watch-3.html#post1655479). I'm guessing this is why, when someone says that one port on the new MB isn't enough, you can easily claim that there is a failure of imagination without asking what those needs might be (http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/apple-notebooks/324485-how-soon-macbook-pro-going-outdated.html#post1656961) (this is probably the most striking example of ardent defence - blaming the user without acknowledging that the user might have specific needs).You even go as far as to claim that talking about "versions" of the iWork suite fails to recognize that new releases are actually "visions": "Apple makes its own 'visions' (as opposed to 'versions') of a powerful word processor/desktop layout tool, a spreadsheet and a slideshow presenter in the form of the iWork suite (featuring Pages, Numbers and Keynote)." (http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/switcher-hangout/211301-email-office-video-player.html#post1097638) If that doesn't scream obsessive allegiance, I don't know what does.

There's nothing wrong with you being so defensive of Apple and, given that you (regularly enough) offer solutions to issues people are having, it's not an issue in the context that is this forum (especially since the open nature of the forum means that users can see the exchange of dialog). Indeed, we all likely have something that we ardently defend. The important thing though is to acknowledge it and while I can't speak for cwa107, I think this is where the issue lies.

Dysfunction
05-12-2015, 11:30 PM
For the time being, given the form factor, the size, lack of power, the lack of peripherals, and the cost.. I'm going with 'nae Scottish'. We'll see... as things go more and more appliance, and less and less workstation.. I'm becoming hard pressed to use them. With the Macbook, I couldn't even work without paying an additional $80 for the dongle.

So for now, I'll stick with my marginally heavier and thicker Air.. until they deprecate that, and it's all netbook-like appliances.

vansmith
05-13-2015, 11:01 AM
So for now, I'll stick with my marginally heavier and thicker Air.. until they deprecate that, and it's all netbook-like appliances.That's the thing too - the MBP or MBA isn't all that much heavier and even if it is (since the feeling of weight is relative after all), it's not as if it's disturbingly heavy.

Checco
05-13-2015, 02:44 PM
I'm sorry, but I agree with Chas. The only reason I'm not buying one (soon) is that I need to replace my MBP with a rMBP in the next couple of months.

I think the MB was designed by very capable engineers that think out of the box. The fact that it's so light is brilliant and the single port doesn't bother me at all - I want it as an "iPad", just with a full keyboard and OS. It would be used whenever I don't need the power of a Pro notebook and fortunately won't have to lug a brick around. Sure, it is expensive, but not so much so that I'm put off. I.e. I think there's decent value there. I don't mind buying an adapter as well if I need one, much like my Thunderbolt to VGA, DVI and Ethernet adapters, which weren't cheap by the way.

I certainly won't apologise for my taste and I earn my money, so I'll spend it as I please - as will many others that have similar needs and desires to mine.

dtravis7
05-13-2015, 07:31 PM
Oh brother. Like what you want, but it's an Overpriced Netbook with very poor performance for $1300+ and every expert in the field of computer benchmarks agrees.

chscag
05-13-2015, 08:08 PM
Oh brother. Like what you want, but it's an Overpriced Netbook with very poor performance for $1300+ and every expert in the field of computer benchmarks agrees.

LOL, how does that old saying go Dennis? "All that glitters is not gold." (Pun intended.)

pigoo3
05-13-2015, 08:20 PM
I went to Wikipedia and "refreshed" my memory on netbooks…and here's an interesting excerpt from Wikipedia:

"By 2011, the increasing popularity of tablet computers (particularly the iPad)—a different form factor, but with improved computing capabilities and lower production cost—had led to a decline in netbook sales.[7] At the high end of the performance spectrum, ultrabooks, ultra-light portables with a traditional keyboard and display have been revolutionized by the 11.6″ MacBook Air, which made fewer performance sacrifices albeit at considerably higher production cost."

So we might ask…is the new 12" MacBook a "netbook" or an "ultrabook"?

- The new MacBook seems to fit the definition of "netbook"…except for it's price ($1299). I remember netbooks back in the 2009 timeframe selling for around $400-$500 bucks brand new…and as little as $200 used. Of course the new MacBook has a larger 12" display than these older netbooks.
- From the ultrabook standpoint. The new MacBook seems to fit since it is an "ultra-light portable", with a traditional keyboard, and good sized display. But due to the single port and lower end CPU…the design does seem to have made some sacrifices.

AND…if the 11" MacBook Air is supposed to be an "ultrabook" (according to the Wikipedia article)…then how intelligent was it for Apple to have released the 12" MacBook?? Unless…the 11" MacBook Air is set to be discontinued. Hmm.

To me it's still overpriced for what you get. And overpriced compared to what the same $1299 will get you. Believe it or not…the low-end & higher end 13" MacBook Air's cost less than the new MacBook ($999 & $1199 respectively). But to be fair…to get these MacBook Airs with 8gig of ram (same as the new MacBook)…the prices do increase $100 to $1099 and $1299 respectively.

- Nick

p.s. Wikipedia link:

Netbook - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netbook)

XJ-linux
05-13-2015, 08:30 PM
Oh brother. Like what you want, but it's an Overpriced Netbook with very poor performance for $1300+ and every expert in the field of computer benchmarks agrees.

Pretty much sums it up.

vansmith
05-14-2015, 11:29 AM
To me it's still overpriced for what you get. And overpriced compared to what the same $1299 will get you. Believe it or not…the low-end & higher end 13" MacBook Air's cost less than the new MacBook ($999 & $1199 respectively). But to be fair…to get these MacBook Airs with 8gig of ram (same as the new MacBook)…the prices do increase $100 to $1099 and $1299 respectively.I did some research here. The new MB and the low end 13" rMBP are both the exact same price (base models). Here's what I came up with:

Feature: MB compared to MBP
Screen res: 2304x1440 compared to 2560x1600
Processor: 1.1Ghz M (TB to 2.4) compared to 2.7Ghz (TB to 3.1)
RAM: 8GB LPDDR3 (1600mhz) compared to 8GB LPDDR3 (1866mhz)
Storage: 128GB PCIe compared to 256GB PCIe
Graphics: Intel HD 5300 compared to Intel IRIS 6100
Battery: 9hr (web)/10hr (iTunes) compared to 10hr (web)/12hr (iTunes)
Weight: 0.92kg compared to 1.58kg

So, what I draw from this is that I pay the same price for a whole lot less computer so that I can save 600g of weight?

pm-r
05-14-2015, 01:04 PM
I did some research here. The new MB and the low end 13" rMBP are both the exact same price (base models). Here's what I came up with:…
… … ...
So, what I draw from this is that I pay the same price for a whole lot less computer so that I can save 600g of weight?



I think that's what Jony Ive and his Apple followers and buddies are hoping and planning… it's so thin and so light — just as they planned and designed it!! ;P :$

pigoo3
05-14-2015, 01:40 PM
I did some research here. The new MB and the low end 13" rMBP are both the exact same price (base models).

We could take this value comparison one step further. In the past (before the new MacBook was released)…we were comparing what we "got" for $1299 between the 13" MBA and 13" rMBP.

Now with the release of the 12" MacBook…we can do a 3-way comparison at the $1299 price point:

13" rMBP vs. 13" MBA vs. 12" MacBook

At $1299 for each of these. As we go from left to right…we are mostly getting:

- Fewer Features
- Lower Performance
- Thinner Profile
- Lighter Weight
- In the case of the new MacBook…smaller physical display (12" vs. 13").

Of course thinner & lighter are nice positives for both the MBA and new MacBook. But less performance & fewer features (ports)…at the same price point ($1299) is where the equation doesn't make the most sense.

For someone looking to purchase an Apple laptop/notebook (their only device other than a smartphone)...with $1299 to spend…I think that it can be a very very difficult decision. Basically it comes down to lighter weight vs. more performance.

In my humble opinion.;) Even though the new MacBook & 13" MBA are thinner & lighter. The most "bang for the buck" is definitely the $1299 13" rMBP!:)

- Nick

vansmith
05-14-2015, 02:13 PM
Of course thinner & lighter are nice positives for both the MBA and new MacBook. But less performance & fewer features (ports)…at the same price point ($1299) is where the equation doesn't make the most sense.Very much so! I configured an MBA here to be roughly the same cost ($20 more) and this is what I've got:

Feature: MB compared to MBA
Screen res: 2304x1440 compared to 1440x900
Processor: 1.1Ghz M (TB to 2.4) compared to 1.6Ghz (TB to 2.7)
RAM: 8GB LPDDR3 (1600mhz) compared to 8GB LPDDR3 (1600mhz)
Storage: 128GB PCIe compared to 256GB PCIe
Graphics: Intel HD 5300 compared to Intel HD 6000
Battery: 9hr (web)/10hr (iTunes) compared to 12hr (web)/12hr (iTunes)
Weight: 0.92kg compared to 1.35kg

Other than the screen which is significantly better on the MB, the MB offers no tangible benefits for the costs (*cough* ports *cough*) other than the screen and the negligible weight difference. There is no one thing that makes this machine a clearly better option.

TattooedMac
05-14-2015, 08:33 PM
Very much so! I configured an MBA here to be roughly the same cost ($20 more) and this is what I've got:

Feature: MB compared to MBA
Screen res: 2304x1440 compared to 1440x900
Processor: 1.1Ghz M (TB to 2.4) compared to 1.6Ghz (TB to 2.7)
RAM: 8GB LPDDR3 (1600mhz) compared to 8GB LPDDR3 (1600mhz)
Storage: 128GB PCIe compared to 256GB PCIe
Graphics: Intel HD 5300 compared to Intel HD 6000
Battery: 9hr (web)/10hr (iTunes) compared to 12hr (web)/12hr (iTunes)
Weight: 0.92kg compared to 1.35kg

Other than the screen which is significantly better on the MB, the MB offers no tangible benefits for the costs (*cough* ports *cough*) other than the screen and the negligible weight difference. There is no one thing that makes this machine a clearly better option.

FWIW, if we go back to the original iPad Mini and iPhone, they were both low specced machines for a premium price, I am just hoping this is what Apple are doing now. Seeing if people will buy, then 12 months time, upset the recent MB buyers and bump up the specs and drop the price considerably, and bring out a newer version.

To me, if feels like we are paying for the development process of this MB, because of the design, battery, and the small everything !!! It comes across wrong to me.

pigoo3
05-14-2015, 08:44 PM
To me, if feels like we are paying for the development process of this MB, because of the design, battery, and the small everything !!! It comes across wrong to me.

Most likely this is exactly what's going on. Unfortunately with current technology…the cost of "moving forward" (thinner & lighter) is getting more & more expensive. Thus it's getting much more expensive…to move forward a teeny bit. Which I'm sure most folks have heard of the law of diminishing returns.

This is why at $1299 the 13" rMBP (manufactured using what might be considered "traditional" technology)…delivers so much more. But the new MacBook at $1299…delivers less due to the cost of making it thinner & lighter.

- Nick

Dysfunction
05-16-2015, 04:04 PM
I certainly won't apologise for my taste and I earn my money, so I'll spend it as I please - as will many others that have similar needs and desires to mine.

Of course! I'd never attack your choices on how to spend your hard earned money. Of course not! Us engineers like to eat you know! :D

It just can't do what *I* need a machine to actually, well.. do.

Rod Sprague
06-21-2015, 03:30 AM
I personally think this is a brilliant device, both in function and design. For the market it is aimed at I think it will sell like hotcakes. It is in every way an improvement on the MBA especially the minimum storage of 256 Gb. I always thought 128 Gb was just a bit to small for a travel companion. It combines all of the best features one could want for a truly portable computer. And amazingly, 17% larger keyboard keys on a smaller laptop. For us barely touch typists that's terrific.
Apple I think you may have got it 99% right on this one.;)

vansmith
06-21-2015, 10:54 AM
It is in every way an improvement on the MBA especially the minimum storage of 256 Gb.Except for having a slower processor, a smaller screen and a higher price tag of course. ;)

cwa107
06-21-2015, 11:03 AM
As I've said before, Apple can put a tie on a turd and sell a million of them. It is amazing what a little bit of savvy marketing can do.

Aside from the design, this is an absolutely terrible product that suits only the most modest of needs for the price. But it has an Apple logo on it and it's thin, so might as well put a $1000+ price tag on something that has a market value of a 1/3 of that.

vansmith
06-21-2015, 11:23 AM
But it has an Apple logo on it and it's thin, so might as well put a $1000+ price tag on something that has a market value of a 1/3 of that.Don't forget the non-metaphorical shiny coat of paint. ;)

Rod Sprague
09-23-2015, 12:07 AM
Well yeah there is that.

chas_m
09-23-2015, 07:17 AM
I think a lot of people are missing the point with this unit. It's carefully designed to do what MOST computer users do MOST of the time ... NOT what power-nerds do!

Think for a minute, realistically, about what most people do with their computers most of the time. If your reply was anything other than Facebook, browsing, email, messaging, and Microsoft Office like work, consider yourself out of touch.

With a 2x faster SSD than most computers, and fast RAM, where's the need for a super-powerful processor in that list of tasks? Nowhere. This machine wouldn't be ideal for me because of SOME things I *occasionally* do, but it can handle my core day-to-day work (browsing, writing, light image editing, chatting) without the slightest bit of an issue. I think a lot of people also ignore the scaling: it's rated for 1.2GHz for typical tasks, but can ramp up past 2.0GHz when needed.

I'm not getting one, but my wife for example would be delighted with it. She's currently using a 2010 MBA that in every way meets or exceeds her requirements.