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TattooedMac
08-05-2013, 09:41 PM
This is well worth the read . . . .

Angry Apple makes hollow threat to bar Kindle, other ebook apps. (http://www.macworld.com.au/news/angry-apple-makes-hollow-threat-to-bar-kindle-other-ebook-apps-104042/#.UgA96RZVjS8)



xAt the time, then-CEO Steve Jobs put it plainly: “Our philosophy is simple – when Apple brings a new subscriber to the app, Apple earns a 30 percent share,” he said in a February 2011 statement. “When the publisher brings an existing or new subscriber to the app, the publisher keeps 100 percent and Apple earns nothing.”

RONE
08-05-2013, 10:18 PM
Very interesting article. Personally, I side with Apple on this.


Apple is under no duty to allow other retailers to offer apps on the iPad in the first place, much less on terms that subsidise their operations

Lifeisabeach
08-06-2013, 01:03 AM
I'm completely against them on it. Why do they demand a royalty for ebooks and not other goods? Why should they be entitled to a 30% cut? They aren't hosting the content. They aren't processing the payment. And with their collusion with the publishers to switch everyone to the "agency" model, in combination with their "most favored nation" clause, demanding 30% of someone else's sales would mean zero profit margin for the others. Their "philosophy" is overly simplistic and quite frankly abusive. If they really want to kick Kindle and other ereader apps off, that would be a very hostile move and unfriendly to their customers, many who bought an iPad so they can enjoy content from a variety of sources.

bumbleboo
08-06-2013, 05:52 AM
Instead of being faced by bully boy tactics I bought a Nexus Android with a Kindle App, no problem! However Google could start getting heavy handed with Amazon!!!! I think all these companies are getting too big for their boots, remember what happened to Ma Bell ?

bobtomay
08-06-2013, 07:40 AM
Agree with lifeisabeach. Such a decision would only serve to cement my decision to stay with a Kindle or Android tablet. It would push me toward an Android phone in lieu of iOS and possibly back to Windows (or give Linux another go) with my next computer purchase.

If Microsoft had hatched a plan with the introduction of Win 3.1 or Win95 that afforded them a 30% cut of everything that could be sold to work and run in Windows, MS would not exist today.

This feeling that they deserve a 30% cut of everyone else's work because they created the operating system is, as far as I am concerned, the height of greed.

RONE
08-06-2013, 01:56 PM
So much for letting the market decide what it will bear. Why does everyone feel the government needs to regulate the private sector economy? What happened to a free market?

RavingMac
08-06-2013, 02:43 PM
As I am heavily invested in Amazon media (mostly Kindle eBooks) any move to prevent me accessing it on my iPad would cause me to exercise my free-market choice to switch to another platform.

chscag
08-06-2013, 02:50 PM
remember what happened to Ma Bell ?

LOL, they're alive and well.... Ever hear of AT&T? The new but old AT&T! ;)

MacInWin
08-06-2013, 09:42 PM
No, AT&T is not Ma Bell. Ma Bell took care of everything from the user's hand to the user's hand on the other end...house wiring, local service, long distance, etc, etc. AT&T of today isn't that end-to-end.

vansmith
08-06-2013, 09:47 PM
Why does everyone feel the government needs to regulate the private sector economy?This alone is a good reason (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Recession). Beyond that, if the government didn't regulate the economy, low paying jobs would see salaries plummet since there would be no reason to pay workers at a minimum rate (lacking skills, many of these people wouldn't be marketable). ;)

What happened to a free market?Never left. The economy has never been free from regulation.

chscag
08-06-2013, 11:05 PM
AT&T of today isn't that end-to-end.

Yeah, I know, but the way AT&T customer service acts sometimes reminds of the old AT&T....

Lifeisabeach
08-07-2013, 01:22 AM
So much for letting the market decide what it will bear. Why does everyone feel the government needs to regulate the private sector economy? What happened to a free market?

LOL! How naive. Have you missed the fact that Apple colluded with publishers to fix prices and harm the competition by denying them the opportunity to compete on price? Left unchecked, the "haves" will abuse the "free" market. Here's a great example in the news right now:
McDonalds’ suggested budget for employees shows just how impossible it is to get by on minimum wage | Death and Taxes (http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/202172/mcdonalds-suggested-budget-for-employees-shows-just-how-impossible-it-is-to-get-by-on-minimum-wage/)

In the "free" market, there'd be no minimum wage. And I GUARANTEE YOU low income workers would be making even less. Look at that comedy of a "budget" McDonalds has laid out for their workers. There is no way to make ends meet. None. Which means government assistance is required for these people to survive. How do you like the notion that your goods and services are subsidized by your tax dollars because the workers bringing them can't survive on what they make? It'd be even worse if they made $3/hour in the "free" market.

dtravis7
08-07-2013, 03:26 AM
AT&T What? Customer service? hahahahahaha. Are you kidding! :D Many times now I had to do their troubleshooting for them!

My issue with going back to windows is and I don't care what anyone says, Windows 8 is not a good desktop OS. But 8.1 has a Start menu! Does it? I have 8.1. It brings up Metro. That is not the Start menu. People are mad.

I need adobe. The Gimp for me is not even close so Linux is out for my overall use. I could use it for the internet though.

Apple is getting greedy for sure and going a different way lately than they should have gone. Not sure what to do if this continues which have a feeling it will.

RONE
08-07-2013, 11:09 AM
This alone is a good reason (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Recession). Beyond that, if the government didn't regulate the economy, low paying jobs would see salaries plummet since there would be no reason to pay workers at a minimum rate (lacking skills, many of these people wouldn't be marketable). ;)
I would say that The Great Recession actually supports my argument, not yours. The government has been heavily regulating things since long before this most recent recession, yet it still happened. So, how's that regulation going for us? Really well, by the looks of things. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_credit-rating_downgrade)

LOL! How naive. Have you missed the fact that Apple colluded with publishers to fix prices and harm the competition by denying them the opportunity to compete on price? Left unchecked, the "haves" will abuse the "free" market. Here's a great example in the news right now:
McDonalds’ suggested budget for employees shows just how impossible it is to get by on minimum wage | Death and Taxes (http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/202172/mcdonalds-suggested-budget-for-employees-shows-just-how-impossible-it-is-to-get-by-on-minimum-wage/)

In the "free" market, there'd be no minimum wage. And I GUARANTEE YOU low income workers would be making even less. Look at that comedy of a "budget" McDonalds has laid out for their workers. There is no way to make ends meet. None. Which means government assistance is required for these people to survive. How do you like the notion that your goods and services are subsidized by your tax dollars because the workers bringing them can't survive on what they make? It'd be even worse if they made $3/hour in the "free" market.
Yes, Apple colluded with publishers to raise eBook prices. But do you understand why they did it? It was because Amazon was selling books at a loss to stifle competition. So don't go saying that Apple was harming competition! I would say without a second thought that there is more competition in the eBook industry now than there was 4 years ago.

I wholeheartedly agree that a truly free market wouldn't work in today's society. My wife and I just had a long discussion on that exact thing about a month ago, and I was using all the same argument points you currently are (yes, I was arguing against an unregulated economy). I'm well aware of the need for some restrictions on businesses, and some minimum requirements for employees; However, the more I see the government telling businesses how to run their businesses the more upset I get. "Some" restrictions is very different than mandating exactly how a business can practice, which is the point I was getting at.

vansmith
08-07-2013, 11:48 AM
I would say that The Great Recession actually supports my argument, not yours. The government has been heavily regulating things since long before this most recent recession, yet it still happened. So, how's that regulation going for us? Really well, by the looks of things. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_credit-rating_downgrade)I don't see how that's the case. How is the unchecked selling of untenable mortgages a product of over-regulation? The governments of the world didn't tell banks and financial institutions to sell bad rates (read that as "unmanageable") nor did the government tell these groups to take part in shady financial practices that ultimately hurts millions. Companies can find ways around things which would suggest the opposite of what you're saying which is the need for closer oversight. A perfect example of this - Canadian banks, during the peak of the financial crisis, received nothing in support because they've always been well regulated (source (http://www.cba.ca/en/media-room/50-backgrounders-on-banking-issues/667-global-banking-regulations-and-banks-in-canada)). In fact, they were still turning profits (albeit considerably smaller) during the peak of the global downturn.

Regulating the actions of groups that are heavily invested in the social good (as banks are) is never a bad thing. And let's not forget the flip side to your argument - the governments were regulating financial institutions when the economy was strong. True, they may have been able to make more but really, there's something to be said for consistency in financial markets and not "let's hope for the best" that comes with ruthless deregulation. You can also enjoy regulation while being free - Canada's economy is heavily regulated in comparison and it is, by some measures, freer (whatever this means) than the American economy (source (http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking)).

A minor point - the credit rating of the government is wholly exclusive of their regulatory practices. One is about managing their own money (credit rating) and the other is about regulating the spending of other people's money (regulations). The former was significantly hurt by the inability of some groups to regulate their own practices and not an intrinsic fault.


I wholeheartedly agree that a truly free market wouldn't work in today's society. My wife and I just had a long discussion on that exact thing about a month ago, and I was using all the same argument points you currently are (yes, I was arguing against an unregulated economy). I'm well aware of the need for some restrictions on businesses, and some minimum requirements for employees;Then you don't actually disagree with me?


However, the more I see the government telling businesses how to run their businesses the more upset I get. "Some" restrictions is very different than mandating exactly how a business can practice, which is the point I was getting at.Collective good over the individual(s) good. On top of that, all regulations restrict how businesses can engage in their various practices (that's what they're designed for).

Lifeisabeach
08-07-2013, 11:51 AM
Yes, Apple colluded with publishers to raise eBook prices. But do you understand why they did it? It was because Amazon was selling books at a loss to stifle competition. So don't go saying that Apple was harming competition! I would say without a second thought that there is more competition in the eBook industry now than there was 4 years ago.

That may or not be a myth. I've read that they sold some books at a loss, but overall they are profitable on them. There's is nothing illegal about it anyway. And in the realm of a "free" market that you long for, there wouldn't be any laws allowed to regulate it anyway, right? Apple's collusion eliminated Amazon's (and indeed, anyone's) ability to use price as a competitive tactic. Apple didn't want to compete on price so they colluded to take away Amazon's (and everyone's) ability to do so.

Also, to further elaborate on why I frown on Apple's refusal to allow 3rd parties to sell ebooks (and other media) directly via an app... some people are increasingly using an iPad as their sole computer. Without doubt, that will increase in time as iOS becomes more capable. But, and correct me if I'm wrong, in such a scenario, it is impossible to buy ebooks and other media from anyone but Apple except through Safari, and you can't get it on your iPad without syncing over a computer. If the iPad is your computer, then you are stuck in Apple's ecosystem. And if OS X heads in this same direction over time (I'm not convinced it will, but who knows for sure?), then what? Switch to another OS? HAH! MS would likely just follow suit, and Linux isn't going to cut it for a lot of people for a lot of reasons.

The argument can be made that the Kindle and Nook don't allow 3rd party stores, but then they NEVER have. These are also truly more like "consumption" devices than the iPad is. Really, they are little more than ereaders with an LCD screen instead of eink. Maybe the iPad isn't "quite" beyond being a mere consumption device, but it's getting there, and again, for many people it is there.

RONE
08-07-2013, 09:30 PM
I don't see how that's the case. How is the unchecked selling of untenable mortgages a product of over-regulation? The governments of the world didn't tell banks and financial institutions to sell bad rates (read that as "unmanageable") nor did the government tell these groups to take part in shady financial practices that ultimately hurts millions. Companies can find ways around things which would suggest the opposite of what you're saying which is the need for closer oversight. A perfect example of this - Canadian banks, during the peak of the financial crisis, received nothing in support because they've always been well regulated (source (http://www.cba.ca/en/media-room/50-backgrounders-on-banking-issues/667-global-banking-regulations-and-banks-in-canada)). In fact, they were still turning profits (albeit considerably smaller) during the peak of the global downturn.
Ford Motor Company didn't receive any support during the financial crisis because their executives saw the direction things were heading, and chose to be proactive and prepared. They came out of the financial situation stronger than they went in - all WITHOUT the government telling them what to do.

You can't regulate enough to protect poor choices by consumers (and I wouldn't want to, anyway). Ultimately, the fault lays with the consumers who were getting way in over their heads because they didn't do their research and the executives/decision-makers of companies who didn't plan for potential changes in the future. Every regulatory change I see to 'protect' someone lasts for a generation, until the new youth reaches that same age, then they come up with their own new, stupid choices. As an example, look at the number of ridiculous warning labels on every appliance you buy nowadays, and yet people still manage to do something new and dumb with it to hurt themselves. Same thing goes for financial regulations.


Regulating the actions of groups that are heavily invested in the social good (as banks are) is never a bad thing. And let's not forget the flip side to your argument - the governments were regulating financial institutions when the economy was strong. True, they may have been able to make more but really, there's something to be said for consistency in financial markets and not "let's hope for the best" that comes with ruthless deregulation. You can also enjoy regulation while being free - Canada's economy is heavily regulated in comparison and it is, by some measures, freer (whatever this means) than the American economy (source (http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking)).
How is an electronics company "heavily invested in the social good"? This doesn't pertain to Apple at all.

A minor point - the credit rating of the government is wholly exclusive of their regulatory practices. One is about managing their own money (credit rating) and the other is about regulating the spending of other people's money (regulations). The former was significantly hurt by the inability of some groups to regulate their own practices and not an intrinsic fault.
The two go hand in hand. Did our credit rating drop as a sequela to the financial crisis that occurred despite government regulations on businesses? Yes.

Then you don't actually disagree with me?
As I said, I have never believed a truly free market economy can work in today's society. It doesn't mean I don't want less regulation, nor that I'm not against more regulation.

Collective good over the individual(s) good. On top of that, all regulations restrict how businesses can engage in their various practices (that's what they're designed for).
I don't view it as the government's job to force ethics and morals on people. Apparently we vote different party lines.




That may or not be a myth. I've read that they sold some books at a loss, but overall they are profitable on them. There's is nothing illegal about it anyway. And in the realm of a "free" market that you long for, there wouldn't be any laws allowed to regulate it anyway, right? Apple's collusion eliminated Amazon's (and indeed, anyone's) ability to use price as a competitive tactic. Apple didn't want to compete on price so they colluded to take away Amazon's (and everyone's) ability to do so.
I think it was pretty well known that Amazon was losing several dollars on every new bestseller eBook they sold (Article from '09 touching on Amazon's losses. (http://www.teleread.com/ebooks/amazon-losing-money-on-999-e-books/)). And as I specified prior to your post, I have never believed a truly free market economy can work in today's society. It doesn't mean I don't want less regulation, though, or that I'm not against more regulation.

Also, to further elaborate on why I frown on Apple's refusal to allow 3rd parties to sell ebooks (and other media) directly via an app... some people are increasingly using an iPad as their sole computer. Without doubt, that will increase in time as iOS becomes more capable. But, and correct me if I'm wrong, in such a scenario, it is impossible to buy ebooks and other media from anyone but Apple except through Safari, and you can't get it on your iPad without syncing over a computer. If the iPad is your computer, then you are stuck in Apple's ecosystem. And if OS X heads in this same direction over time (I'm not convinced it will, but who knows for sure?), then what? Switch to another OS? HAH! MS would likely just follow suit, and Linux isn't going to cut it for a lot of people for a lot of reasons.
Ok, I'll correct you. You're wrong. You can open any book in Safari and transfer it to iBooks, Marvin, Kindle, or whatever eBook reader you want to use. And even if Apple did restrict such a thing, let the demand drive their choices. Poor business practice = fewer purchases = lost revenue = changed business practices. (Look at the recent Microsoft XBox One announcement for examples of that!)

The argument can be made that the Kindle and Nook don't allow 3rd party stores, but then they NEVER have. These are also truly more like "consumption" devices than the iPad is. Really, they are little more than ereaders with an LCD screen instead of eink. Maybe the iPad isn't "quite" beyond being a mere consumption device, but it's getting there, and again, for many people it is there.
This is a very interesting point that I hadn't considered. What you've pointed out is akin to saying that it would be ok for the government to suddenly decide that Amazon has to allow for the sale of eBooks from the iBookstore on their devices. And what about the Kindle Fire? No different. Apple allowed, by its own choice, to have the Kindle app, etc in the App Store because it knew it would be able to make money from them. Take away that incentive, and why should a company continue to allow the app? They shouldn't have to, yet the government wants to force them to do exactly that.

Nighthawk4
08-08-2013, 09:43 AM
Agree with lifeisabeach. Such a decision would only serve to cement my decision to stay with a Kindle or Android tablet. It would push me toward an Android phone in lieu of iOS and possibly back to Windows (or give Linux another go) with my next computer purchase.

If Microsoft had hatched a plan with the introduction of Win 3.1 or Win95 that afforded them a 30% cut of everything that could be sold to work and run in Windows, MS would not exist today.

This feeling that they deserve a 30% cut of everyone else's work because they created the operating system is, as far as I am concerned, the height of greed.


As I am heavily invested in Amazon media (mostly Kindle eBooks) any move to prevent me accessing it on my iPad would cause me to exercise my free-market choice to switch to another platform.


I agree completely with both of these comments.

I have an iPad Mini, which I use so I can read Kindle, Nook, Kobo and other eBooks (amongst other things). I would be very unhappy having to carry at least 4 separate eReaders in order to do this.

Why should Apple be entitled to anything at all in return for people using their OS in order to use someone else's content? They wrote the OS and created the device. They were paid for both of those. That should be enough.

How we use the products should be up to us :Angry:

RONE
08-08-2013, 02:22 PM
I agree completely with both of these comments.

I have an iPad Mini, which I use so I can read Kindle, Nook, Kobo and other eBooks (amongst other things). I would be very unhappy having to carry at least 4 separate eReaders in order to do this.

Why should Apple be entitled to anything at all in return for people using their OS in order to use someone else's content? They wrote the OS and created the device. They were paid for both of those. That should be enough.

How we use the products should be up to us :Angry:

The app developers agreed to the terms of service and the price they'd have to pay. What I'm hearing from you is no different than signing a mortgage on a house and then being pissed about the terms afterward.

Is it also not fair that Apple requires carriers to pay more for their phones than other companies do?

vansmith
08-09-2013, 08:29 PM
Ford Motor Company didn't receive any support during the financial crisis because their executives saw the direction things were heading, and chose to be proactive and prepared. They came out of the financial situation stronger than they went in - all WITHOUT the government telling them what to do.That makes it sound as if Ford operated beyond the boundaries that is regulation. They're success was, and always will be, in part due to regulations which ensure that they don't do stupid things that are thought to be wise through the lens of greed.


You can't regulate enough to protect poor choices by consumers (and I wouldn't want to, anyway). Ultimately, the fault lays with the consumers who were getting way in over their heads because they didn't do their research and the executives/decision-makers of companies who didn't plan for potential changes in the future.The issue here is you are creating a binary in which you have no regulation on one hand and excessive regulation on the other.


Every regulatory change I see to 'protect' someone lasts for a generation, until the new youth reaches that same age, then they come up with their own new, stupid choices. As an example, look at the number of ridiculous warning labels on every appliance you buy nowadays, and yet people still manage to do something new and dumb with it to hurt themselves. Same thing goes for financial regulations.And warnings/regulations have never saved anyone from something? You're making a tenuous logical link between the presence of warning labels and personal ignorance. So, is the answer to simply remove all labels? That's a risky game to play that leads to nothing beneficial.



How is an electronics company "heavily invested in the social good"? This doesn't pertain to Apple at all.You were talking about the federal credit rating and I responded by talking about financial institutions. It was entirely relevant.

RONE
08-09-2013, 09:14 PM
That makes it sound as if Ford operated beyond the boundaries that is regulation. They're success was, and always will be, in part due to regulations which ensure that they don't do stupid things that are thought to be wise through the lens of greed.
The other car manufactures managed to do stupid things that were thought to be wise through the lens of greed, despite those regulations which "saved" Ford. I don't buy that those regulations saved them. Ford did some serious restructuring prior to the financial collapse to mitigate the impending damage without any guidance from the government.

The issue here is you are creating a binary in which you have no regulation on one hand and excessive regulation on the other.
But I don't want more than a minimum of regulation. If I asked for excessive regulation at some point previously, it was a typo.

And warnings/regulations have never saved anyone from something? You're making a tenuous logical link between the presence of warning labels and personal ignorance. So, is the answer to simply remove all labels? That's a risky game to play that leads to nothing beneficial.
Survival of the fittest. It worked pretty darn well for the past, say, 4.5 billion years. You really think we have somehow developed something in the last few thousand years that somehow trumps the work being done by cold, cruel mother nature over all that time. Sympathy only gets in the way of progress. Perfect example: Wolves do not suffer from hip dysplasia. Can you say that about man's best friend? Another example: AIDS resistance in humans is now being documented in northern Africa (less because of sympathy, than because the sympathetic outpouring couldn't treat the disease. Either way, same end result.).

Yes, warnings have saved some people, right up until the next generation grows up and expects warning labels to tell them everything to be careful of... common sense no longer necessary. Have you read the first few pages of a lawnmower's instruction manual? "Caution, blades sharp." "Caution, do not put fingers or toes under mower deck when mower running." "Caution, ..." It's ridiculous, and that's the way everything the government gets a hold of goes. Taxe code? Ha!

Last example... people running red lights. 10-15 years ago when north/southbound traffice got a red light the east/westbound traffic immediately got a green light. This worked fine for quite a while, until people began running red lights. So the length of yellow lights was increased in an effort to increase safety. This worked for a while, then people began running red lights again so a delay was instituted between the change of one direction to red and the counter-direction to green. This again worked for a while, until people realized the delay was present and that they could enter the intersection even just after the light changed and make it through. Now they've increased the delay between light changes even more, and again it worked for a while, until people realized the delay was longer so they'd be even more brazen about running the red light. It's already illegal to enter the intersection after the light has turned red, so what more regulation is needed to fix that problem? Maybe instill more common sense in drivers? Maybe shorten the lights back to how they were and let some people learn a proper lesson? We cannot regulate people into intelligence.

You were talking about the federal credit rating and I responded by talking about financial institutions. It was entirely relevant.
We can keep taking these hop, skips, and jumps to see where we end up, but I'm guessing it'd be a long way from Apple and Amazon by the time we got done! lol I managed to bring up evolution in my reply. I can't wait to see where you take it now.

Lifeisabeach
08-10-2013, 12:58 AM
I think it was pretty well known that Amazon was losing several dollars on every new bestseller eBook they sold (Article from '09 touching on Amazon's losses. (http://www.teleread.com/ebooks/amazon-losing-money-on-999-e-books/)).

Yes, which is why I said they sell "some" ebooks at a loss. Thing is, the general public (myself included until recently) thinks they sell ALL ebooks at a loss because of statements like "...Amazon was selling books at a loss to stifle competition." As it turns out, that's not true. They just have some loss leaders that seems to be a pretty common practice.


Ok, I'll correct you. You're wrong. You can open any book in Safari and transfer it to iBooks, Marvin, Kindle, or whatever eBook reader you want to use. And even if Apple did restrict such a thing, let the demand drive their choices. Poor business practice = fewer purchases = lost revenue = changed business practices. (Look at the recent Microsoft XBox One announcement for examples of that!)

Fair enough, I was wrong then. I thought everything was sandboxed to the point you couldn't move downloads around like that. I've never really tried, although now that I think about it, I use a 3rd party browser (Mercury) instead of Safari, so maybe Mercury is what's hobbled? Or maybe it's just that I don't download anything via a browser on my iPad. I definitely don't do ebooks yet. Yeah yeah... I don't actually have a pony in this fight, but I'm arguing against Apple more on the principle of how I want to be able to use my iPad.

RONE
08-10-2013, 01:45 AM
Yes, which is why I said they sell "some" ebooks at a loss. Thing is, the general public (myself included until recently) thinks they sell ALL ebooks at a loss because of statements like "...Amazon was selling books at a loss to stifle competition." As it turns out, that's not true. They just have some loss leaders that seems to be a pretty common practice.
My statement was true, and I stand behind it. I didn't say they were selling all books at a loss. In fact, it was never disclosed how many books they were losing money on, but it was AT LEAST the bestsellers (And what books do people most commonly buy? The ones that are selling the best!). They were creating an ecosystem and expectation of bestsellers having a price-point that was not sustainable to new companies trying to enter the market, or even to compete. This stifled new competition because who would buy a book for $15 when you could, with a couple mouse clicks and key taps, buy it for $10. This is very different from Best Buy or some other brick and mortar store having a Black Friday sale with a couple loss leaders, and then only having a couple of those inventory items in stock - "while supplies last." Amazon was selling, at minimum, all books in a market with very high sales volumes (definition of "bestsellers") with no limit on inventory. This would be akin to Best Buy selling every Sony TV in stock at below their price, and not limiting it to stock on hand. Who could compete with that?


Fair enough, I was wrong then. I thought everything was sandboxed to the point you couldn't move downloads around like that. I've never really tried, although now that I think about it, I use a 3rd party browser (Mercury) instead of Safari, so maybe Mercury is what's hobbled? Or maybe it's just that I don't download anything via a browser on my iPad. I definitely don't do ebooks yet. Yeah yeah... I don't actually have a pony in this fight, but I'm arguing against Apple more on the principle of how I want to be able to use my iPad.
I've never used Mercury, but my guess is that it's a limitation of the programming of Mercury to not include API's for opening the files in other apps.

Nothing wrong with arguing for what you want/believe in. :)

bobtomay
08-10-2013, 07:43 AM
...

Ok, I'll correct you. You're wrong. You can open any book in Safari and transfer it to iBooks, Marvin, Kindle, or whatever eBook reader you want to use. ....

Ok, would really like to know how to open an ebook bought from Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple, etc. or an online ebook rental from your local Library in Safari without using their specified app and then move it to whichever reader app you want to use and without circumventing the DRM contained in each of those formats.

RavingMac
08-10-2013, 09:52 AM
I want to interject a slightly off-topic plug here

Baen Ebooks (http://www.baenebooks.com/)

Baen Books (SF Publishing House) sells all their eBooks DRM free, and they allow you to redownload if you need to change reader format.
I have no connection with them, but they are my first choice for buying eBooks. They also have an extensive free library worth looking at.

bobtomay
08-10-2013, 10:44 AM
Baen - Great Sci-Fi house

Lifeisabeach
08-10-2013, 10:50 AM
I want to interject a slightly off-topic plug here

Baen Ebooks (http://www.baenebooks.com/)

Baen Books (SF Publishing House) sells all their eBooks DRM free, and they allow you to redownload if you need to change reader format.
I have no connection with them, but they are my first choice for buying eBooks. They also have an extensive free library worth looking at.


Baen - Great Sci-Fi house

Now you guys have my attention! I've been considering getting a Kobo ereader (the Aura HD) and I've always been partial to science fiction. I will definitely have to keep this place in mind. Much appreciated for the heads up!

RavingMac
08-10-2013, 11:00 AM
Definitely try their free library. Lots of older Dave Weber titles there.

MacInWin
08-10-2013, 02:11 PM
Watch out! Baen is addictive...

RONE
08-10-2013, 03:04 PM
Ok, would really like to know how to open an ebook bought from Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple, etc. or an online ebook rental from your local Library in Safari without using their specified app and then move it to whichever reader app you want to use and without circumventing the DRM contained in each of those formats.
Circumvent DRM? No. Purchase non-DRM titles in Safari on the iPad and open them in your e-reader of choice? Absolutely. Circumventing DRM is an entirely different discussion that you can't do on ANY tablet at this point, so that's not really relevant to this discussion. And RavingMac beat me to it... Baen Ebooks sells DRM-free titles which you can simply purchase in Safari on the iPad and then open up in your e-reader. The whole point of DRM is to stop that from happening, so good luck seeing a big manufacturer having a way to do that baked right in to their OS.


I want to interject a slightly off-topic plug here

Baen Ebooks (http://www.baenebooks.com/)

Baen Books (SF Publishing House) sells all their eBooks DRM free, and they allow you to redownload if you need to change reader format.
I have no connection with them, but they are my first choice for buying eBooks. They also have an extensive free library worth looking at.
I do love David Weber's work. I'm just a few books from finishing the entire Honor Harrington universe, and I'm patiently waiting for the next Safehold book (due out in January I believe).

bobtomay
08-14-2013, 07:37 AM
Circumvent DRM? No. Purchase non-DRM titles in Safari on the iPad and open them in your e-reader of choice? Absolutely. Circumventing DRM is an entirely different discussion that you can't do on ANY tablet at this point, so that's not really relevant to this discussion. And RavingMac beat me to it... Baen Ebooks sells DRM-free titles which you can simply purchase in Safari on the iPad and then open up in your e-reader. The whole point of DRM is to stop that from happening, so good luck seeing a big manufacturer having a way to do that baked right in to their OS.


I do love David Weber's work. I'm just a few books from finishing the entire Honor Harrington universe, and I'm patiently waiting for the next Safehold book (due out in January I believe).

It is totally relevant to this discussion, as there is no ebook "sold" by Apple that does not have DRM. While you may have decided to only buy books that are DRM free,not all of us have. And making the statement that "any book can be opened in Safari" is just wrong. If you have found a legal internet site (one that pays the publishers, not a russian or ukrainian site that pays nothing to the publishers/authors) that sells all the books the major suppliers carry without DRM, I'd like to know.

We can agree on one thing though, David Webers books.
Finished the Harrington series about a year ago.
Like John Ringo's books better after working with Weber.
Check out The Lost Fleet series by Jack Campbell - sadly, unavailable on Baen.

TattooedMac
08-14-2013, 08:00 AM
I want to interject a slightly off-topic plug here

Baen Ebooks (http://www.baenebooks.com/)

Baen Books (SF Publishing House) sells all their eBooks DRM free, and they allow you to redownload if you need to change reader format.
I have no connection with them, but they are my first choice for buying eBooks. They also have an extensive free library worth looking at.


Thanks for that link mate. Love looking through and have got a couple of Webers books, and love that i can download them and put them in either Kindle or iBooks App. I chose Kindle and leave iBooks for all my iTunes purchase . . . .
Lot of authors i have never heard of including Weber but im trusting you blokes on that one :)

Lifeisabeach
08-14-2013, 02:57 PM
Circumvent DRM? No. Purchase non-DRM titles in Safari on the iPad and open them in your e-reader of choice? Absolutely.

Hold the phone here! Earlier you said, and I quote:
"Ok, I'll correct you. You're wrong. You can open any book in Safari and transfer it to iBooks, Marvin, Kindle, or whatever eBook reader you want to use."

So by "any book", you meant "any book that doesn't have DRM"? That's horribly misleading and I wasn't wrong. Not entirely anyway. I did a short test with a PDF file and while Mercury didn't have the option to kick it to one of the PDF readers I had, Safari did. But that was a DRM-free file that Safari had to access/open first. My takeaway here is that if Safari can't read it (i.e. the file has DRM), then Safari can't kick it to another app, AND it can only do so once it has fully downloaded it first.

In other news, I ordered the Kobo Aura HD and it shipped today. Definitely looking forward to it and perusing Baen Books' catalogue.

MacInWin
08-14-2013, 05:33 PM
John Scalzi's stuff is pretty good, too: Old Man's War, The Ghost Brigade. On the Baen front, Baen and Amazon have some sort of business deal now where Baen books are available on Amazon. I generally buy from Baen directly, have them email to my Kindle account and read on my iPad with the Kindle app. Sometimes the conversion to .mobi fails, so when that happens I download .epub and either put the book under iBooks or use Calibre to convert to .mobi and use the OSX application Send to Kindle to get it to my iPad.

RONE
08-14-2013, 06:54 PM
It is totally relevant to this discussion, as there is no ebook "sold" by Apple that does not have DRM. While you may have decided to only buy books that are DRM free,not all of us have. And making the statement that "any book can be opened in Safari" is just wrong. If you have found a legal internet site (one that pays the publishers, not a russian or ukrainian site that pays nothing to the publishers/authors) that sells all the books the major suppliers carry without DRM, I'd like to know.
I think I'm confused about what the original question even was. I thought the original question was concerning the ability to open an ebook in safari and transfer to another app for reading. Isn't that feasible, or am I wrong?


We can agree on one thing though, David Webers books.
Finished the Harrington series about a year ago.
Like John Ringo's books better after working with Weber.
Check out The Lost Fleet series by Jack Campbell - sadly, unavailable on Baen.
I will definitely give The Lost Fleet a look. Thanks for the recommendation.

bobtomay
08-14-2013, 07:53 PM
Another one where a female character takes the lead in a space adventure is the Kris Longknife (http://www.goodreads.com/series/49818-kris-longknife) series by Mike Shepherd. I'm awaiting #11 later this year.

Any sci-fi nut that hasn't read The Saga of Seven Suns by Kevin J Anderson needs to check out that series.

And yeah, we're waaaaayyyy off topic now, but that's ok.
Especially if we all get some new reading material out of it. ;)

edit:
liab - give us run down of that Aura HD after you've had some time with it.

RavingMac
08-14-2013, 08:18 PM
At the moment I'm rereading an oldie SF classic by Eric Frank Russell, 'Wasp'. It's one of my favorites

Lifeisabeach
08-15-2013, 12:24 AM
liab - give us run down of that Aura HD after you've had some time with it.

Will do. It's my first ereader, so my perspective will be rather limited. I'll point you to a review that compared it to the Kindle Paperwhite. I had read a number of reviews and comparisons, but this one cinched it for me. These guys did a really great, in-depth review and comparison.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPFfw2sNQ_c

One thing that almost put me off of it was the unusual way Kobo formats their ebooks. They put a full blank line in between every paragraph, rather than just indenting the first line. The net effect is you don't actually get much more text on screen. But I found instructions on how to reformat their ebooks to get around that (requires stripping Kobo's DRM) so I decided to let that slide.