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OneMoreThing...
06-10-2013, 04:10 PM
Apple offers a sneak peek at new Mac Pro at WWDC 2013 (http://www.tuaw.com/2013/06/10/apple-offers-a-sneak-peek-at-new-mac-pro-at-wwdc-2013/)




Read more (http://www.tuaw.com/2013/06/10/apple-offers-a-sneak-peek-at-new-mac-pro-at-wwdc-2013/)

iggibar
06-10-2013, 04:39 PM
9.9" tall by 6.6" wide? Wow!!! That's really impressive for that much computing power!!

martyp
06-10-2013, 04:46 PM
I must say that my current iMac is more than powerful enough for my most demanding need (doing 2D CAD using AutoCAD 2012 in VMWare Fusion on Win8) but this new Mac Pro looks absolutely incredible!

The design is just so unique and yet they haven't really compromised on anything - aside from PCIe slots. Also a lot of talk about it being able to drive multiple 4K displays, wonder if there will be a new Apple Cinema Display with a 4K resolution on the horizon for it?

If they do I would be seriously tempted to bite the bullet and trade the iMac in for one. The machine is a work of art and props to Apple for making it entirely in the US!!!

Raz0rEdge
06-10-2013, 04:48 PM
12 core Xeon processor!

I'll just leave it at that..

pigoo3
06-10-2013, 06:17 PM
Of course details on the Mac Pro are few & far between at this point. But from what I've seen so far...the new Mac Pro sounds like a "Super Mac-Mini"!;)

Very very powerful...but much less expandable & upgradable than the old Mac Pro. We shall see as more info becomes available.:)

- Nick

harryb2448
06-10-2013, 06:22 PM
Seems to be the way Nick doesn't it?

Since upgrading from mac Pro to iMac not at all disappointed.

Lifeisabeach
06-10-2013, 06:33 PM
Of course details on the Mac Pro are few & far between at this point. But from what I've seen so far...the new Mac Pro sounds like a "Super Mac-Mini"!;)

Very very powerful...but much less expandable & upgradable than the old Mac Pro. We shall see as more info becomes available.:)

It's perfectly expandable over Thunderbolt. There are TB boxes for PCI cards, so anything can be tossed into those. And from what I've read from comments by a couple professionals, their storage needs grows faster than anything else, so an external TB RAID array makes more sense vs having internal HDD bays, plus a RAID array is portable and can be moved easily to another workstation if need be.

You can't upgrade the internal graphics cards, but good grief! Considering what it can do now, would anyone NEED to in the near future? Another point someone else made elsewhere... this thing is about the size of an SGI workstation, and those were no more upgradable/expandable than the new Mac Pro. If anything, Thunderbolt makes the new Mac Pro more expandable.

pigoo3
06-10-2013, 06:52 PM
It's perfectly expandable over Thunderbolt. There are TB boxes for PCI cards, so anything can be tossed into those. And from what I've read from comments by a couple professionals, their storage needs grows faster than anything else, so an external TB RAID array makes more sense vs having internal HDD bays, plus a RAID array is portable and can be moved easily to another workstation if need be.

What you mentioned may be right on the mark.:)

I probably should have been more specific in my earlier post. What I should have said was..."Very very powerful...but much less internally expandable & upgradable than the old Mac Pro."


If anything, Thunderbolt makes the new Mac Pro more expandable.

Again...maybe so. But Thunderbolt has been out for a little over 2 years now...and I've really seen very very little mainstream implementation of Thunderbolt devices by the average user. About the only device that we commonly hear about in everyday conversation regarding "Thunderbolt" is the 27" Thunderbolt display. And even this device isn't going to be in the average Apple computer owners home...due to the steep $999 price tag.

I realize that other Thunderbolt devices exist...but the average Apple computer user is not using or purchasing them.

Also...if "Apple history" teaches us anything...Apple has come out with all sorts of different port types over the years...and has done away with them just as quickly. I can make a list almost as long as my arm of port types that Apple has experimented with...and then did away with them.

Given that Thunderbolt has been around for 2 years (with very little implementation by the common user)...I wouldn't be surprised to see Thunderbolt ports disappearing!:o

But maybe the new Mac Pro will help change this.:)

- Nick

Lifeisabeach
06-10-2013, 07:10 PM
If anything, Thunderbolt makes the new Mac Pro more expandable.


Again...maybe so. But Thunderbolt has been out for a little over 2 years now...and I've really seen very very little mainstream implementation of Thunderbolt devices by the average user. About the only device that we commonly hear about in everyday conversation regarding "Thunderbolt" is the 27" Thunderbolt display. And even this device isn't going to be in the average Apple computer owners home...due to the steep $999 price tag.

Well by "more expandable", I meant in comparison to an SGI workstation.


I realize that other Thunderbolt devices exist...but the average Apple computer user is not using or purchasing them.

The average user simply has no real need for Thunderbolt. But the new Mac Pro isn't for the average user either. If professionals really do take to the new Mac Pro, then I'd expect more TB peripherals to follow. I think there are enough options now to get what they need using TB now.

pigoo3
06-10-2013, 07:21 PM
The average user simply has no real need for Thunderbolt.

This is exactly my point...and I'm glad we agree on it!:)

Which means (for the last 2 years)...the inclusion of Thunderbolt ports on Mac-Mini's, MacBook Pro's, and iMac's has really not been necessary. And for folks that have Thunderbolt Display's...they could still be using the old mini-display port 27" display.:)

AND...if the average user has no real need for Thunderbolt...then Apple should certainly remove the Thunderbolt port on Mac-Mini's, MacBook Pro's, and iMac's...and give us a port that the average user can make use of.:)


But the new Mac Pro isn't for the average user either. If professionals really do take to the new Mac Pro, then I'd expect more TB peripherals to follow. I think there are enough options now to get what they need using TB now.

Again...maybe so. But then we have to consider the issue of "economies of scale". Companies won't produce more TB peripherals just for Mac Pro's if they cannot make a lot of them to make a decent profit.

Or...they would not produce very many of them (small production runs)...and charge the Mac Pro owners who want them...very very high prices.

We shall see.:)

- Nick

pigoo3
06-10-2013, 07:42 PM
Actually I just remembered. On the positive side for Thunderbolt and the "average user"...the Thunderbolt port is also backwards compatible with the mini-display port. So the Thunderbolt port on Mac-Mini's, iMac's, MacBook Pro's, and MacBook Air's is still useful as a video-out port for external displays.

And...if one of these "average-users" does decide to "splurge" for a different sort of Thunderbolt device...they still have that option as well.

So I guess we continue to keep the Thunderbolt port for a while...and see what happens!:)

- Nick

dtravis7
06-10-2013, 08:46 PM
Apple - Mac Pro (http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/)

I am sure many will salivate over it but I do not like it. It's not a true Pro machine to me. Sorry.

dtravis7
06-10-2013, 08:48 PM
At long last! Apple announces new Mac Pro with cylindrical design | Ars Technica (http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/06/at-long-last-apple-announces-new-mac-pro-with-cylindrical-design/)

pigoo3
06-10-2013, 09:02 PM
I am sure many will salivate over it but I do not like it. It's not a true Pro machine to me. Sorry.

I don't mind so much that it will be smaller & lighter. But it was Apple's last computer model to be a truly internally expandable/upgradeable computer. Which it is always nice to have everything INSIDE of the computer.

With the new Mac Pro's design (if it's designed to have all of it's expansion OUTSIDE of the computer via Thunderbolt)...then a person's desktop can get all cluttered with expansion devices. But then it depends on how much expanding/upgrading a person does.

I think that running multiple monitors is one thing many folks with Mac Pro's like to do in terms of expandability...and I think that I read that the new Mac Pro is capable of running 3 monitors simultaneously out of the box. So that's a pretty cool feature.:)

- Nick

Groovetube
06-10-2013, 10:05 PM
I'm a little on the fence on this machine. My first thought was, well the cube was a bad idea, why is it a good idea now?

That aside, I'm not really loving the cylindrical design. The thing is, most real pros I know, ones that want to put real $$ for a pro, don't care -that- much about cutting edge design, and certainly not one that makes it less expandable on the inside. I think, for now, that may be a bit of a mistake. Pro users will balk at having to put out more hundreds (plenty) for external chassis for cards etc. So, I'm not sold that this is a great idea.

I see a whole lotta mac guys on another mac forum really putting this machine down. I wonder what the final reaction will be.

-I- might love one, but I'm not a total video pro etc after expensive high end video cards etc. That's not exactly what I thought mac pros were for... people like me.

thunderbolt however, I love it, mainly because the 2 I have, can be whatever port I like (with an adapter if needed) I love the expandability and options thunderbolt has. I think, it may be here to stay, but just faster generations that are backwards compatible.

pigoo3
06-10-2013, 10:08 PM
I'm a little on the fence on this machine. My first thought was, well the cube was a bad idea, why is it a good idea now?

Ahh...another great analogy!:)

The new Mac Pro is either a "Super Mac-Mini"...or the reincarnation of the Mac Cube!;)

If the new Mac Pro has an external power supply (like both the Mac-Mini and Mac Cube have/had)...then we are definitely talking more similarities than differences.

- Nick

dtravis7
06-10-2013, 10:10 PM
Nick, looking at the insides on that Apple page I have a feeling the Power Supply is external.

pigoo3
06-10-2013, 10:16 PM
Nick, looking at the insides on that Apple page I have a feeling the Power Supply is external.

I didn't see the photos...but I had a strong idea the PS would be external. Definitely one way to make the Mac Pro small & reduce heat buildup.

- Nick

Groovetube
06-10-2013, 10:18 PM
external? Say it ain't so. C'mon Apple!!

My disdain for the pro aside, I did really like the preview of Maverick. Great name too!

dtravis7
06-10-2013, 10:31 PM
The new Mac Pro (http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/06/the-new-mac-pro-you-cant-buy-it-yet-but-you-can-look/#image-1)

Some decent pics at ARS.

pigoo3
06-10-2013, 11:14 PM
Looking at those pictures...it's definitely the reincarnation of the "Mac-Cube"!

Except the new Mac Pro could be called the "Mac-Cylinder"...or the "Mac-Silo"!;)

- Nick

Groovetube
06-10-2013, 11:15 PM
I'm starting to hear the 'mac can'.

Lifeisabeach
06-10-2013, 11:18 PM
This is exactly my point...and I'm glad we agree on it!:)

Which means (for the last 2 years)...the inclusion of Thunderbolt ports on Mac-Mini's, MacBook Pro's, and iMac's has really not been necessary. And for folks that have Thunderbolt Display's...they could still be using the old mini-display port 27" display.:)

AND...if the average user has no real need for Thunderbolt...then Apple should certainly remove the Thunderbolt port on Mac-Mini's, MacBook Pro's, and iMac's...and give us a port that the average user can make use of.:)

Whoa... not so fast. I certainly believe Apple should have been including USB 3 across their product lines sooner than they have, but by no means would I concur that they should yank Thunderbolt ports on all but the Mac Pro. Just because the "average" user has no practical use for it doesn't mean NO user has one.


I don't mind so much that it will be smaller & lighter. But it was Apple's last computer model to be a truly internally expandable/upgradeable computer. Which it is always nice to have everything INSIDE of the computer.

With the new Mac Pro's design (if it's designed to have all of it's expansion OUTSIDE of the computer via Thunderbolt)...then a person's desktop can get all cluttered with expansion devices. But then it depends on how much expanding/upgrading a person does.

The new Mac Pro is 1/8th the size of the old ones. For someone who has no need of the internal expandability, the old ones are in fact more cluttered. For someone who only needs the hard drive space, adding an external RAID array still would take up less space. Need a couple PCI slots for some specialized need? I do believe the new Mac Pro, a RAID box, and a Thunderbolt expansion chassis (http://www.sonnettech.com/product/thunderbolt/) would still take up less space overall.

Anywho, there's always going to be someone you just can't please. The new Mac Pro will be absolutely perfect for a lot of people, perhaps less so for others. If they stuck with the old design, then that would still hold true except the roles would be inverted. I know I'd be less happy with a tower 8x larger than it NEEDS to be for my needs. To be honest, I don't like cable clutter either, but it's not the end of the world and in a working environment, I can see how the new design would be an improvement. Here's links to a couple choice comments from working professionals on Ars Technica's coverage with what their feelings are. I think their observations are very much worth noting.

At long last! Apple announces new Mac Pro with cylindrical design | Ars Technica (http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/06/at-long-last-apple-announces-new-mac-pro-with-cylindrical-design/?comments=1&post=24666159#comment-24666159)

At long last! Apple announces new Mac Pro with cylindrical design | Ars Technica (http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/06/at-long-last-apple-announces-new-mac-pro-with-cylindrical-design/?comments=1&post=24666381#comment-24666381)

Lifeisabeach
06-10-2013, 11:20 PM
Looking at those pictures...it's definitely the reincarnation of the "Mac-Cube"!

Except the new Mac Pro could be called the "Mac-Cylinder"...or the "Mac-Silo"!;)

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTorI9e5fVN3GLuTkfxa0wsEOG9sAoG0 GKtxRbQUh6uLizrA-MKAw

This should need no introduction.

Groovetube
06-10-2013, 11:23 PM
has there been any indication on price?

If that thing is significantly lower in price, that could go a long way to cutting down criticism.

infocusinc
06-10-2013, 11:48 PM
I'm starting to hear the 'mac can'.

Try iCan

dtravis7
06-10-2013, 11:55 PM
I don't care who hates me, Bans me, De-Friends me, to me when I first saw the new Mac Pro I thought of this:


Round Lobby Ash Bin 10L - Cigarette Bins & Ashtrays - Fire Safety & No Smoking - Office Products - Safety Equipment Supplier - Seton Australia (http://www.seton.net.au/office-products/fire-safety-no-smoking/cigarette-bins-ashtrays/round-lobby-ash-bin-10l.html)


hahahhahahahahaha!

infocusinc
06-10-2013, 11:57 PM
I don't care who hates me, Bans me, defends me, to me when I first saw the new Mac Pro I thought of this:


Round Lobby Ash Bin 10L - Cigarette Bins & Ashtrays - Fire Safety & No Smoking - Office Products - Safety Equipment Supplier - Seton Australia (http://www.seton.net.au/office-products/fire-safety-no-smoking/cigarette-bins-ashtrays/round-lobby-ash-bin-10l.html)


hahahhahahahahaha!

Good one!

My prediction and I'm not really good at them, this thing won't sell.

chscag
06-10-2013, 11:58 PM
has there been any indication on price?

If you have to ask, you can't afford to buy one! :P

pigoo3
06-10-2013, 11:59 PM
Whoa... not so fast. I certainly believe Apple should have been including USB 3 across their product lines sooner than they have, but by no means would I concur that they should yank Thunderbolt ports on all but the Mac Pro. Just because the "average" user has no practical use for it doesn't mean NO user has one.

Please read what I posted later on after the post that was quoted. I revised my statement...since for the "average user" I remembered that the Thunderbolt port is also a backwards compatible mini-display port.;)

- Nick

pigoo3
06-11-2013, 12:05 AM
has there been any indication on price?

If that thing is significantly lower in price, that could go a long way to cutting down criticism.

I agree. But I'm 99% sure it will be expensive...since it IS a "Mac Pro"!:)

Apple needs to maintain a price difference between the Mac Pro and their other computers...otherwise there wouldn't be a perceived superiority to the Mac Pro.

Plus I'm sure that the new Mac Pro's specs will outclass all other Mac's. Except maybe a low-end Mac Pro...which may not be much more than a higher end iMac without a display.

But this is all "crystal-ball" talk!;)

- Nick

pigoo3
06-11-2013, 12:15 AM
The new Mac Pro is 1/8th the size of the old ones.

If they stuck with the old design...

No doubt the old case design was getting very very old and tired! Hopefully there wouldn't be too many folks that would differ with that assessment. That case design has been around since the very first Powermac G5 in 2003 (10 years now)!!!

Hopefully the new Mac Pro's case redesign (like it or not)...will create some new excitement at the top-end of Apple's computer lineup. And new excitement is great for both Apple fans and Apple stockholders!!!:):)

- Nick

infocusinc
06-11-2013, 07:39 AM
Hopefully the new Mac Pro's case redesign (like it or not)...will create some new excitement at the top-end of Apple's computer lineup. And new excitement is great for both Apple fans and Apple stockholders!!!:):)

- Nick


I think it only results in even more rejection of Apple at the high end.

Groovetube
06-11-2013, 08:02 AM
that could very well be. One of the big draws of the mac pro, was it's internal expansion.

I've been buying expensive machines (over 4k) since my first brand new one the G4 MDD, then the G5, and I owned 2 mac pros before I cut and run and went to the macbook pros when they became super fast to the maxed out retina I have now.

Price didn't stop me on the machines I've bought, but pros, the ones I know, will go PC in heartbeat (as shocking as that may be) if they thought for a minute they had to blow tons more cash to either replace or buy expensive chassises for their expansion stuff.

They are a fickle, cantankerous bunch. Apple seems to have designed a neat thingy for the design studios perhaps, but the real balls to the wall chew on cpu cycles production guys, couldn't care less about the cylindrical design really. These are guys who might be happy to go to the peecee shop and buy a peecee case.

knightjp
06-11-2013, 02:48 PM
Apple - Mac Pro (http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/)

What?! What is this? This is the new Mac Pro?
One of the things that I loved about the Mac Pro is the ability to upgrade it easily. Adding HDDs Graphics cards, Ram were a breeze. Why did they mac something that looks like a more expensive of a mac mini or the old Cube?

I think they think its gonna be the future. If this tiny thing is the new Mac Pro, they better make sure its not as expensive as the old one. Otherwise I don't see this gimmick working at all for them.

chscag
06-11-2013, 03:39 PM
I think they think its gonna be the future. If this tiny thing is the new Mac Pro, they better make sure its not as expensive as the old one.

Don't hold your breath. ;) It wouldn't surprise me to see this machine selling for $3K and on up.

infocusinc
06-11-2013, 05:39 PM
Don't hold your breath. ;) It wouldn't surprise me to see this machine selling for $3K and on up.

Plus a k or two for the external enclosures you are gonna need.

Oh, wait. There are no Thunderbolt 2 enclosures or chassis.

Don't forget the $50 tb cable.

pigoo3
06-11-2013, 05:47 PM
Don't hold your breath. ;) It wouldn't surprise me to see this machine selling for $3K and on up.

Here's my guess. For the top-end stock configuration...I'm guessing $4999.;)

It's possible there will be options to upgrade the ram & storage at purchase time that could send the final price much higher. But I'm guessing $4999 for the top end configuration (12-core) before any customization.!;)

- Nick

p.s. The current top-end 12-core Mac Pro sells for $3799. And it only has one graphics card, doesn't have any sort of SSD storage, and only 12 gig of ram.

CanuckBoater
06-11-2013, 11:38 PM
It looks like a black garbage can from Ikea.

Hope it works for the target market.

osxx
06-12-2013, 12:11 AM
I bet if the bench scores are astronomically high it will sell.

pigoo3
06-12-2013, 12:18 AM
I bet if the bench scores are astronomically high it will sell.

It was mentioned during the WWDC presentation for the new Mac Pro that it was designed to be good for 10 years. This is a pretty big statement in "computerland"...when we know how fast some systems can be outdated.

So it better have some "kick-butt" benchmark scores!!!;)

- Nick

knightjp
06-12-2013, 01:28 AM
It was mentioned during the WWDC presentation for the new Mac Pro that it was designed to be good for 10 years. This is a pretty big statement in "computerland"...when we know how fast some systems can be outdated.

So it better have some "kick-butt" benchmark scores!!!;)

- Nick

Seeing that it cannot be easily upgraded as the old systems, i.e. graphics cards, ram, disk drives, etc., it better be able to stand with systems 3 years from now. Tech is moving at a rapid pace with new processors and stuff coming out. You need to be able to keep up.

I also think that you see the current trend towards apps being more internet and network related rather than being run locally on your own system. Apple probably is seeing this as the future of applications and seeing everyone having their own servers and networks in their own homes as opposed to one single device.

If the benckmarks don't stand up, then I don't see why anyone would get this when they could have an imac for less.

pinto79
06-12-2013, 02:38 AM
I like it.

I recently made the move to Mac and am in the process of phasing out my limping PC that still runs my business software. It's a giant case with room for 6 HDDs, three 5.25 bays and a 3.5 bay (I still have a 1.44FD...)

I decided to go Mac Mini with a couple of external drives and am very happy with the result. The space savings are enormous. I could see this new iCan being a great step up from the Mini when the time comes.

Just a note.... I'm using the Thunderbolt port along with an adapting cable to plug into one of my two 32" 1080p displays so that I can run them both. seems to work great for me!

TRYON
08-06-2013, 12:21 AM
Oh the Pro.....
1-ThunderBolt (mac states) it is twenty (20) times faster then 3.0 usb port.
2-Small pro=external add ons. Ex. h/d, ex. b/r burner, etc for a video geek like me.
3-LOWER price! YEAH RIGHT. One of my geek co-horts tells me WAIT till it's out for a while, bugs you know. Wait till Apple gets the bugs out NAH....All i want is SPEED and an accurate software for my new video business. So you you Mac apple geeks get ready for more discussions on the pro. The present four bay pro looks pretty good for an old geek like me. Ah i can see it now adding a 10,000 rpm to the second bay, plenty of memory space too. Well we shall see ladies and Gentlemen. To Pro or not to Pro. Thank you
TRYON

Exodist
09-26-2013, 12:42 PM
The Mac Pro is impressive. But its overkill.. Only people that would have use for such a power house is Engineers using 3D modeling software like SolidWorks and other professionals need genetic data or similar numbers crunched. This is what is killing it..

Lets face it, the biggest mistake will be not offering lower priced gaming graphics cards. Fires are powerful, but they dont offer the functions needed for 3D game play.. The Xeon is server oriented computing. Point being I would love to see the current Mac Pro, but not necessarily as a workstation model. Perhaps a slightly lower high end model geared for gammers.
Build a model with a I7 Haswell, and two of the top of the line ATI Radeon cards and they got a powerful system that will appeal to a larger audience. Currently there is to much of a performance gap between a MacMini or iMac and the New MacPro. At least have the option for Gaming or Workstation video cards.. I would love the thing, I have the money for it. But I have no use for FirePro's!

pigoo3
09-26-2013, 01:00 PM
The Mac Pro is impressive. But its overkill..

Mac Pro's are designed for top-end "Powerusers" (or for anyone with a fat wallet). They are/were never meant for mainstream users.

Apple also mentioned that the new Mac Pro was designed with a 10 year lifespan in mind. I highly doubt anyone 10 years from now will call this computer "over-kill"!;)

- Nick

TRYON
09-26-2013, 01:20 PM
NUTS. All i want is a dependable, fast, non crashing video editing, photo, music machine WHOA!
If Mac over kills us devoted customers with OVER PRICED new pro, well Steve will be rolling over.
You people are right. There will be add ons. The older pro (4 bay's) still looks good. Decisions, decisions.
We shall see soon...very soon.

Thanks to all my information people out there Mac land Tryon (Joseph)

Exodist
09-27-2013, 12:16 PM
Mac Pro's are designed for top-end "Powerusers" (or for anyone with a fat wallet). They are/were never meant for mainstream users.

Apple also mentioned that the new Mac Pro was designed with a 10 year lifespan in mind. I highly doubt anyone 10 years from now will call this computer "over-kill"!;)

- Nick

Well I agree to an extent. Overkill is the MacPro. But FirePro GPUs are expensive and really powerful. But not that well supported outside the 3D modeling and perhaps some high end video editing. They lack the features that gamers need. And although Mac in general are not normally considered a gaming machine even though some do use the current and older MPs as reliable gaming systems. I just see Apple loosing a huge chunk of the market by only offering the system with FirePro GPUs. However if they offered it with say top end Radeon GPUs. Then they still hit the high end workstation audience as well as the high end gaming audience. It just makes good sense.

I for one would love to be able to run one computer. I love my Mac but have a love hate relationship with my gaming PC. Its big, its bulky, it freaking runs windows.. Did I mention it needs windows.. Blah.. LOL.. And I have about 3k in that system.. Heck I have 1k in my Mac Mini plus the new SSD.. I would get the MacPro soon after it hits the market, but the FirePro GPUs are the breaker for me. :-(

pigoo3
09-27-2013, 12:27 PM
But FirePro GPUs are expensive and really powerful. But not that well supported outside the 3D modeling and perhaps some high end video editing. They lack the features that gamers need.

I just see Apple loosing a huge chunk of the market by only offering the system with FirePro GPUs.

...I would get the MacPro soon after it hits the market, but the FirePro GPUs are the breaker for me. :-(

These concerns are different/more specific than what you made in your last post...and thus if compatibility is a big issue...then I can certainly see your concerns.

If firewire GPU's are so "incompatible"...why would Apple use them in the new Mac Pro...unless firewire GPU's are the future of graphics. And if it's not the future of graphics...it would sure seem to be an awfully big gamble on Apple's part.

Hopefully Apple knows a heck of a lot more than we do!;)

- Nick

Exodist
09-29-2013, 05:36 AM
These concerns are different/more specific than what you made in your last post...and thus if compatibility is a big issue...then I can certainly see your concerns.

If firewire GPU's are so "incompatible"...why would Apple use them in the new Mac Pro...unless firewire GPU's are the future of graphics. And if it's not the future of graphics...it would sure seem to be an awfully big gamble on Apple's part.

Hopefully Apple knows a heck of a lot more than we do!;)

- Nick

Hey Nick,
Nah not "firewire" GPU's... ATI FirePro is a Workstation based GPU. Dont get me wrong they are great, very powerful. But not feature rich as a lower cost gaming GPU such as the Radeon series. nVidia has two separate GPUs as well. Their workstation card is the Quadro and gaming GPU is the Geforce series.. Now not sure if you have ever worked with many Workstation cards or software that uses them. But the software must be written for them. For example Solidworks 3D modeling software is wrote for ATI FirePro GPUs. Think they have a patch for Quadros as well. But the point is that it works very very well on a FirePro, but even if you buy the lastest and fastest Radeon, it will just not perform very good at all on the Radeon. Why, simply it was wrote for Workstation GPUs. Now lets take Crysis or even World of Warcraft. Put them on a 4 year old Radeon or Geforce and it will run reasonably as one would expect. But play that game on a FirePro or Quadro workstation GPU and it will just not run hardly at all. You would be begging for a onboard intel HD4000 GPU because the game has been written for consumer grade gaming cards.

Point is FirePro workstation GPUs are wonderful, powerful even. But they are business oriented, not home user oriented. So unless your thing is setting at home watch Seti-at-home numbers crunch using your GPUs, your not going to be as happy as you would from not being able to play a game or two. But if games are not your thing, they more then likely you will be just tickled to death with the FirePros.

Hope I havent confused anyone here, perhaps I wasnot clear before. That happens when I am half a sleep posting. Anyhow thats my fault.. Sorry for that.

Now if Apple wants to carry on with only FirePro as their GPU of choice, then o well. My little complaint over here is meaning less anyway. Its more of a sad eye..

I just really feel there is a huge gap from say a i7 Mac Mini to the new Mac Pro. I would really love to see the Mac Mini get high end gaming GPU. It has the physical room inside if one gives the 2nd HDD slot. Now heat would still be a concern more then likely.. But if Apple could get with Lucent Logic and make even an intergrated GPU work with the intel HD4000 like they can do on my gaming PC. Then they would easily close the performance GAP between the two systems.

Now I know the iMac has a independent GPU, but I am not fond of all-in-ones or paying for their overpriced cinema displays. They are nice, but not my thing. Unless they became full Retina displays, then pehaps if there was not a price increase.. But now I am rambling.. :-p

bobtomay
09-29-2013, 10:00 AM
I'd tend to agree with your assessment.

What I'm still not sure about, how many of the hard core gamers that actually spend the $2-$3k it takes to build a top of the line gaming system every 12-24 months have made the shift to using OS X as their primary OS.

Plus the fairly large bunch of overclockers and tweakers that also fit into that category (and require access to the system board firmware to do their magic) are going to consider any off the shelf system, much less a Mac.

I'm with you in that I'd like to see a Mac Pro or even an iMac with the top of the line i7 and the GTX 780 in it instead of the 780m that benchmarks at about half that of the desktop version. The iMac while an all in one, it's a desktop machine, figure out a way to put a blasted desktop GPU coupled with that 27" screen. I think they'd have a machine that at least a decent portion of those who've moved to OS X as their primary OS would be slobbering over themselves to get.

edit:
Of course, then Apple would have to deal with that group unfamiliar with high end GPUs that would be complaining it sounded like an airplane taking off every time they booted up their favorite game.

Exodist
09-29-2013, 10:17 AM
Thank you Bobtomay.

Yea I guess my point is..

MacMini = Laptop performance..
iMac = Laptop performance..
MacPro = High end Workstation / Server performance..

Were the desktop performers which is a huge chunk of the market.. dual video cards or not..

pigoo3
09-29-2013, 01:34 PM
Nah not "firewire" GPU's... ATI FirePro is a Workstation based GPU.

I meant "FirePro".;)

- Nick

pigoo3
09-29-2013, 01:55 PM
Now not sure if you have ever worked with many Workstation cards or software that uses them. But the software must be written for them.

I do not know how much you know about Apple history...but Apple has done this at least 2-3 times in the past (maybe more):

- When Apple went from CISC to RISC cpu's with the PowerPC computers back in the mid-late 1990's.
- When Apple went from the "Classic OS" (OS 1.0 to 9.2) to OS X back around 2001.
- When Apple went from Motorola cpu's to Intel cpu's in 2006.

In all of these cases this was not an abrupt over-night change...but a multi-year transition...where emulation of the older OS remained for a period of time.


Now if Apple wants to carry on with only FirePro as their GPU of choice, then o well. My little complaint over here is meaning less anyway. Its more of a sad eye.

We certainly have to wait & see what happens once the new Mac Pro is released...to see how things play out.

Remember again...Apple says that they have designed the new Mac Pro to last for 10 years (10 years of usefulness). So maybe what seems like "over the top" high-end & incompatible in some ways now...may be commonplace in the years to come.

Apple is well known as a risk-taker or pushing the envelope...introducing technologies that other computer companies wouldn't even dream of including in a consumer-ready computer. But if Apple is successful...then all other computer companies will follow in a heartbeat!!!

Sometimes Apple is successful...and sometimes not. We shall see.

- Nick

arthur30
10-01-2013, 05:09 AM
The new design is innovative in itself and with the speed that it is offering I am sure it will sell in large numbers. Apple has ones again increased the benchmark for the competitors.