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View Full Version : OSX 10.9 Mavericks . . . and ranting about the new Mac Pro because Van said so!!!



dtravis7
06-10-2013, 02:42 PM
Apple unveils OS X 10.9, “Mavericks” | Ars Technica (http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/06/apple-unveils-os-x-10-9-mavericks/)

chscag
06-10-2013, 02:52 PM
I feel insulted. They should have named OS X 10.9 "Longhorns" instead of "Mavericks".

Remember the Alamo! ;P

dtravis7
06-10-2013, 02:58 PM
:D Grin at Chscag!

How about OSX Cloud/Touch as I am sure that is coming next. :D

How about OSX Ban Hammer in honor of Van! :D

XJ-linux
06-10-2013, 03:16 PM
Sad they couldn't come up with one last "big cat" name. Without the big cat name, it just isn't quite the same...

dtravis7
06-10-2013, 03:19 PM
I was hoping for OSX House Cat in honor of my pets that many here on the forums hate! :D

Oh well, no more cats. That will make some happy but not me.

Slydude
06-10-2013, 03:55 PM
Was there any mention of system requirements? I am liking some of the new features but would not be surprised if some of them do not run well on my MB Pro.

Raz0rEdge
06-10-2013, 04:05 PM
No mention of system requirements Sly, and I couldn't expect those to come out till later when it's ready for release..

On the name, they lost a golden opportunity by not embracing the meme of choice by not going with OS X 10.9 Grumpy Cat..:)

RavingMac
06-10-2013, 04:12 PM
So will the new avatar/emblem have a two-headed beastie with Sarah Palin and John McCain's faces? ;D

CrimsonRequiem
06-10-2013, 04:14 PM
I was hoping for OSX House Cat in honor of my pets that many here on the forums hate! :D

Oh well, no more cats. That will make some happy but not me.

I would have settled for Mac OSX Domesticated Cat. XD

Slydude
06-10-2013, 04:19 PM
I guess my opportunity to have it named Sylvester with me as the official spokesperson goes by the wayside yet again.

Dang Guess they won't be providing me a new Mac Pro as part of the endorsement deal.

CrimsonRequiem
06-10-2013, 04:23 PM
I guess my opportunity to have it named Sylvester with me as the official spokesperson goes by the wayside yet again.

Dang Guess they won't be providing me a new Mac Pro as part of the endorsement deal.

On a side note what did you guys think of the new Mac Pro? I don't like that shape. It's great that it is smaller but that's pretty much it.

dtravis7
06-10-2013, 04:41 PM
Read the feed at Anandtech. The new Mac Pro has no drives and looks like a Paper shredder or trash can. Sorry, that is no PRO machine for Pros. Too much missing and no way for the user to do much. The end of the Pro user support is here. Sorry Apple! :-(

Slydude
06-10-2013, 05:26 PM
I missed a bit of that part of the video. Feed from the Apple site cut o several times. I know that it is using flash storage correct? So, I assume there are no internal drive bays and all storage will be either Thunderbolt or USB 3.

dtravis7
06-10-2013, 05:30 PM
I missed a bit of that part of the video. Feed from the Apple site cut o several times. I know that it is using flash storage correct? So, I assume there are no internal drive bays and all storage will be either Thunderbolt or USB 3.

Apple - Mac Pro (http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/)

Scroll with your wheel and see what they did . I should move this part to hardware but am too upset right now at Apples decisions here.

Netty4mac
06-10-2013, 05:32 PM
Sad they couldn't come up with one last "big cat" name. Without the big cat name, it just isn't quite the same...

I feel the same way! I want the cat back ;)

Yodda_Hunter
06-10-2013, 05:32 PM
Looks awesome,and the ibook will be great but i hope they put magazines.
and the iOS 7 looks great,as well
what do you think,guys?

iggibar
06-10-2013, 05:38 PM
I think the name is pretty stupid, no matter what the name signifies. Out of all the possible names, all they could come up with was Mavericks? How lame.

iWhat
06-10-2013, 06:04 PM
I have mixed feelings about the name, too. But ultimately, it will remind me of the sports team. :/

Sawday
06-10-2013, 06:04 PM
I guess Maverick doesn't mean the same in the US as it does in the rest of the English speaking world but I'd have thought Apple would have looked into that before 'doing their own thing (and not necessarily in a good way)' - ie being a Maverick!

pigoo3
06-10-2013, 06:10 PM
I guess Maverick doesn't mean the same in the US as it does in the rest of the English speaking world but I'd have thought Apple would have looked into that before 'doing their own thing (and not necessarily in a good way)' - ie being a Maverick!

What is the definition of "Maverick" that the rest of the English speaking world uses or most commonly thinks of? I'm from the U.S....and these are the two definitions I think of:

1. an unbranded range animal or a motherless calf
2. an independent individual who does not go along with a group or party

- Nick

Yodda_Hunter
06-10-2013, 06:14 PM
i got my first mac yesterday so if i waited for while i would be able to get the mavericks for free. :D :D
but really i interested a lot when i heard that there will be ibook,but i wanna magazines !!!

Sawday
06-10-2013, 06:21 PM
What is the definition of "Maverick" that the rest of the English speaking world uses or most commonly thinks of? I'm from the U.S....and these are the two definitions I think of:

1. an unbranded range animal or a motherless calf
2. an independent individual who does not go along with a group or party

- Nick

Over on the right hand side (or should that be 'right side'? :) ) of the Atlantic, Maverick usually has quite negative connotations and implies someone who cannot be trusted.

pigoo3
06-10-2013, 06:23 PM
i got my first mac yesterday so if i waited for while i would be able to get the mavericks for free. :D :D
but really i interested a lot when i heard that there will be ibook,but i wanna magazines !!!

Apple has a 14-day return policy. If getting OS 10.9 for free is that important (which will probably cost less than $20 when it is released)...you could return your new Apple computer...and wait approx. 3 months to buy another computer in the Fall when Maverick is officially released.

You have to weigh the benefits vs the hassles just to get a $20 OS upgrade for free!;)

- Nick

harryb2448
06-10-2013, 06:26 PM
Usually developer copies do iot have the system specs included. Back when Mountain Lion came out the first developers version would install on non Core 2 Duo machines. The Gold or retail version killed off installing on oilder machines.

Whisper down here was OS X.9 Cougar but I guess Hollywood has tarnished that name lol.

pigoo3
06-10-2013, 06:31 PM
Over on the right hand side (or should that be 'right side'? :) ) of the Atlantic, Maverick usually has quite negative connotations and implies someone who cannot be trusted.

Thanks for the info!:) But if the English speaking world checks just about any English dictionary they will see the definitions that I mentioned.

I'll give you a reverse example of how language/terminology/slang in the UK calls a common everyday item something that much of the rest of the world can also be seen a derogatory.

What are cigarettes called in the UK? That term is considered derogatory to certain segments of the English speaking population throughout the world.

- Nick

Chris H.
06-10-2013, 06:35 PM
Whatever happened to the Ocelot? (Perhaps OS X Ocelot doesn't roll of the tongue smoothly - then again neither does "Mavericks", which is a place in northern California).

I figured they could've gone the way of native plants of California...or native species of California...

What's next, OS XI "Malibu"?

:P

Nighthawk4
06-10-2013, 06:49 PM
So what next - OS X Iceman? :D


Nice to see iBooks on the Mac at last. About time too.

Probably won't work on my iMac anyway.


Not keen on some of the iOS7 - wonder what hardware that will require. Probably work on my iPad Mini at least :\

chscag
06-10-2013, 07:32 PM
Apple - Mac Pro (http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/)

Scroll with your wheel and see what they did . I should move this part to hardware but am too upset right now at Apples decisions here.

Looks like a Space Heater Dennis. :P

XJ-linux
06-10-2013, 08:23 PM
I wonder how many people will come home after a night of hard drinking and, thinking it is a swanky trash bin, barf into the fan of their roommate's new Mac Pro...

dtravis7
06-10-2013, 08:29 PM
Hahahaha at XJ! I have seen Tall Ash Trays in some doctors offices with a hole at the top that looked just like that new MP. Sorry, I can't get the image out of my mind!

Slydude
06-10-2013, 08:48 PM
I think this incarnation of the Mac Pro has probably lost a bit of the tinker with it factor. It won't be as easy to do as some models have been. That bothers me but realistically in all the years I've owned G5 and Mac Pros cases I've only installed one card, extra memory, and an internal hard drives. This form factor might be a bigger issue for pros,

@Dennis Thanks for that link it got me up to speed on the info that I missed. I wonder how effective the cooling will be? This idea seems strangely reminiscent of the Cube (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Mac_G4_Cube)

pigoo3
06-10-2013, 09:08 PM
Whatever happened to the Ocelot? (Perhaps OS X Ocelot doesn't roll of the tongue smoothly - then again neither does "Mavericks", which is a place in northern California).

What the heck...why didn't they name the new OS 10.9 "Yreka"??

Yreka is also in Northern, California...and we know who is infamously from there!!!;)

- Nick

pigoo3
06-10-2013, 09:48 PM
...but realistically in all the years I've owned G5 and Mac Pros cases I've only installed one card, extra memory, and an internal hard drives. This form factor might be a bigger issue for pros,

Same experience here. I'm thinking many Mac Pro users (up to this point mainly) purchased Mac Pro's for three reasons:

- lots of cpu cores
- ability to run multiple monitors
- lots of ram

Sounds like the new Mac Pro address's all of these.

Of course I'm also sure there are Mac Pro users who have maxed things out...and liked having four separate HD bay's.

- Nick

dtravis7
06-10-2013, 10:12 PM
From all the pics I have seen it looks like the Retina MBP in the sense of RAM is part of the board and you are stuck with whatever you purchase. Time will tell for sure.

Ctrl-Opt-Del
06-10-2013, 10:28 PM
Sad they couldn't come up with one last "big cat" name. Without the big cat name, it just isn't quite the same...Ah, well, you see... They wanted people to know this was no mere cat...
</obscure Ubuntu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ubuntu_releases#Ubuntu_10.10_.28Maverick_M eerkat.29) referencing joke> :Smirk:


This form factor might be a bigger issue for pros...I wonder how effective the cooling will be? This idea seems strangely reminiscent of the Cube (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Mac_G4_Cube)Glad I'm not the only one who saw the new Pro & thought Apple had resurrected the concept of the "G4 Cube" as the "Xeon Tube" :P

MacDude121
06-10-2013, 10:55 PM
Wow, what a great name Apple... *cough*

Chris H.
06-10-2013, 10:59 PM
Wow, what a great name Apple... *cough*

I can think of a few names...

...Malibu...
...Ocelot...
...Sea Lion...oops
:P

yoyo13579
06-11-2013, 12:47 AM
Os x Ocelot, Os x Bengal, Os x Lynx, Os x Bear cat, Os x Bobcat, shall i go on

Dysfunction
06-11-2013, 01:11 AM
Whatever happened to the Ocelot? (Perhaps OS X Ocelot doesn't roll of the tongue smoothly - then again neither does "Mavericks", which is a place in northern California).

I figured they could've gone the way of native plants of California...or native species of California...

What's next, OS XI "Malibu"?

:P

It's not a place, so much as a surf break.. actually.. the largest rideable (by paddling in, the last time I heard) waves ta boot ;)

jt1968
06-11-2013, 01:30 AM
No mention of system requirements Sly, and I couldn't expect those to come out till later when it's ready for release..

On the name, they lost a golden opportunity by not embracing the meme of choice by not going with OS X 10.9 Grumpy Cat..:)

THAT would've been awesome!

Slydude
06-11-2013, 01:34 AM
I was looking at the keynote earlier today and in between bouts of the video acting up I got a look at the tagging features. This is kinda what i had in mind a while ago when writing about how to make Smart Folders more useful.

First, how about an easy way to add metadata when a file is saved—from right within the Save dialog? Just think how useful smart folders would be if everything on your Mac were tagged with the appropriate metadata.

If you are interested see this column from March 2010 (http://www.atpm.com/16.03/smart-folders.shtml)

chscag
06-11-2013, 03:19 AM
Just think how useful smart folders would be if everything on your Mac were tagged with the appropriate metadata.

Don't worry about the metadata Sly, the NSA is storing it all up for you! ;D

mrplow
06-11-2013, 03:37 AM
From all the pics I have seen it looks like the Retina MBP in the sense of RAM is part of the board and you are stuck with whatever you purchase. Time will tell for sure.

I think that's the flash drive. There are four 'standard' ram slots, two on each side mounted vertically.

edit: looking at this pic (http://www.maclife.com/files/u330237/2013/06/wwdc_2013-2616.jpg)it looks like the flash storage is removable too.

CrimsonRequiem
06-11-2013, 05:01 AM
I think that's the flash drive. There are four 'standard' ram slots, two on each side mounted vertically.

edit: looking at this pic (http://www.maclife.com/files/u330237/2013/06/wwdc_2013-2616.jpg)it looks like the flash storage is removable too.

Looks like a high tech bomb. >_>"

bobtomay
06-11-2013, 08:20 AM
Think I must be getting old.

Love the fact that you get the menu bar and the dock on each screen.
Even just 10 yrs ago, I would have been excited / waiting with aniticipation to get my hands on all the new features.
Now I'm just thinking, do I really want to have to learn how to use all this new stuff?

CookieMonsterXo
06-11-2013, 08:53 AM
So, I'm a complete newbie when it comes to Macs...
How do the software updates work?
Are they free? If not,about how much does it cost? (If there is a cost, do you think it'd be worth it?)
Or do the updates only come with new computers released?

cwa107
06-11-2013, 09:41 AM
So, I'm a complete newbie when it comes to Macs...
How do the software updates work?

Any new major OS X version will be distributed through the Mac App Store (on your Dock).



Are they free? If not,about how much does it cost? (If there is a cost, do you think it'd be worth it?)


Generally, new major OS X versions are about $30, though that cost has varied a bit in the past. Yes, I think it's worth it.



Or do the updates only come with new computers released?

No.

TattooedMac
06-11-2013, 09:50 AM
The end of the Pro user support is here. Sorry Apple! :-(

Honestly, which those Bench Test's and speeds and all the goodness that the New Mac Pro is showing, 7 Teraflops of Computing Power, 2.5 times the speed of the new Flash, 20GB/s data transfers to a Backup Array, Power to connect 3x4K Displays, Bluetooth 4 and ac wireless, Why Dennis would you want to Upgrade anything in it, honestly. But I'm sure you will be able to swap out to bigger Flash ??

cwa107
06-11-2013, 10:00 AM
So, my take...

On OS X "Mavericks"... I agree, they should have waited for 10.x to run its course before changing the theme. It's a trivial matter really, but I don't understand their logic at all. That said, a lot of the features they're adding seem very logical and useful (unlike some of the fluff they've added from Lion to Mountain Lion).

On the Mac Pro... I agree with Dennis. I believe Apple may have just lost the true "Pro" market.


Given the highly proprietary nature of this machine, you can bet that it will be difficult to impossible to do any internal upgrades.
Given the expense and limited availability of TB1 upgrades, I can't even imagine how difficult and costly it will be to source TB2 peripherals - and that's on top of what I would imagine will be a steep initial system cost.
If the GPUs can't be upgraded internally, don't count on TB to provide you with an external venue for adding/replacing GPUs. TB1/2 doesn't have nearly as much bandwidth as a full 16 lane PCIe card.
From an aesthetics perspective - I would be willing to bet that most Pros set these things on the floor and rarely, if ever, look at them. So who cares what it looks like? Even still, I agree that it looks like a highly polished trash can. The phrase "Mac-in-trash" immediately came to mind when I first saw it.
I realize that optical drives are passť these days, but given that this machine is all about authoring content, I'm really stunned that there's no optical drive - at least in this case.


Obviously, I'm not the target market for this machine, but nevertheless, I am hugely disappointed with Apple's recent direction - at least as it pertains to Mac hardware. I love OS X. I love my iPhone. I love my iPad. I would like to continue to love Mac hardware, but if the traditional 15" MacBook Pro (non-Retina) is discontinued, then the machine I'm typing on currently (which still has a lot of life left in it) will likely be my last Apple-branded PC.

Apologies for the negativity, but I feel as though I've lost all faith in Apple's ability to temper design with functionality.

dtravis7
06-11-2013, 10:55 AM
Very well said Chris and I 100% agree.

cwa107
06-11-2013, 11:22 AM
Honestly, which those Bench Test's and speeds and all the goodness that the New Mac Pro is showing, 7 Teraflops of Computing Power, 2.5 times the speed of the new Flash, 20GB/s data transfers to a Backup Array, Power to connect 3x4K Displays, Bluetooth 4 and ac wireless, Why Dennis would you want to Upgrade anything in it, honestly. But I'm sure you will be able to swap out to bigger Flash ??

It's impressive, no doubt. And maybe my vision is clouded by the mindset of a tinkerer/old school geek (and no doubt, Dennis agrees with me here as well). But if I were doing REAL work with a $3000K+ system (and I believe this Mac Pro will be significantly more costly, given the state-of-the-art Flash-based storage), I would not want a "locked" box full of proprietary hardware that I can't take a screwdriver to.

Additionally, given that Apple won't provide warranty support beyond 3 years for its hardware, I would live in constant fear of eventually having a 3-year-old fancy looking doorstop should it experience even the slightest failure.

Now, that's a LOT of speculation, because we don't know all that much about it. But given the recent trend in Apple hardware, particularly with the latest iMacs and Retina MacBooks, I'm guessing that speculation isn't far from the truth.

The thing that bugs me the most is that there is no reason from a technical standpoint to build a machine this way. This is strictly a design exercise, much as it was with the recent iMacs and Retina MacBook Pros. Believe me, I get that this is part of Apple's DNA and that function will always follow form. But I believe that in the past, Apple has done a much better job of innovating in design without throwing all practicality out the window.

To take it one step further - automobile manufacturers release concept cars every year. They are usually "pie in the sky" designs that feature a theme or design language that will eventually trickle down into mainstream models, but in reality, they're not completely functional. Sometimes you can't open the hood, or the vehicle can't move under its own power.... This is like Apple creating a concept heavy duty pickup truck and turning it over to production with a full tank of gas, but no fuel filler door.

dtravis7
06-11-2013, 12:40 PM
Again agreed completely.

Dogbreath
06-11-2013, 03:05 PM
I was hoping the next OS name would be OS Top Cat. I'm showing my age now.
Also, I'm kind of disappointed with the new Mac Pro.

chscag
06-11-2013, 03:37 PM
The new Mac Pro is not for everyone. But believe me, they will sell and likely be popular with the professionals who they're geared for. I do agree with Chris that a 3 year Apple care warranty on an expensive machine like this will probably not be enough. I can see Apple selling a special 5 year limited warranty for the Pro only. ??

vansmith
06-11-2013, 04:36 PM
The new MP reminds me of the cube - a design that's a little too drastic and had to make compromises for the purposes of aesthetic gain. Time will tell however.

Few of the outward facing features in Mavericks excite me but the under the hood stuff is just fantastic. iCloud Keychain? Maps? iBooks? doivoivbfoivb Sorry, I fell asleep there. Tabs in Finder? About time and avery welcome addition. Xtrafinder is awesome and I use it solely for the tab support but the fewer third party programs I need, the better. The tagging features look fantastic in theory but we'll see how it plays out.

The under the hood stuff is where it gets just awesome. Compressed memory, app nap and timer coalescing just go to show how nuanced the fixes are.

pigoo3
06-11-2013, 06:00 PM
The new MP reminds me of the cube - a design that's a little too drastic and had to make compromises for the purposes of aesthetic gain.

We touched on this a little earlier in the thread (or maybe it was the "New Mac Pro" thread).;) I initially was saying the new Mac- Pro looked like a "Super Mac-Mini"...then someone said the design looked more like a Mac Cube. I'm thinking that a reincarnated Mac Cube is a better analogy.

Of course...let's hope that the new Mac Pro doesn't suffer the same fate as the Mac Cube!;)

- Nick

dtravis7
06-11-2013, 06:11 PM
Well said Van my man! :D Agree completely. I yawned at the fluff in the keynote also! :D

vansmith
06-11-2013, 06:40 PM
We touched on this a little earlier in the thread. I initially was saying the new Mac- Pro looked like a "Super Mac-Mini"...then someone said the design looked more like a Mac Cube. I'm thinking that a reincarnated Mac Cube is a better analogy.I'm doing a little bit of catch up. ;)

So, I just noticed this now (yes, I completely missed all the announcements and I'm just catching up now) - flash storage? Really? I'm partially surprised given Apple's move to flash storage but why not a hybrid option or better yet, solid state drives? I realize that it was chosen for space, energy and potentially heat reasons but how do you justify a pro machine with no user removable storage? Other than that though, it's one amazingly spec'd machine.

dtravis7
06-11-2013, 06:45 PM
Again Van, Well said. Those were some of my first thoughts when seeing the machine.

RavingMac
06-11-2013, 07:41 PM
The most interesting feature to me is multiple displays using AirPlay.

My 55in LG HDTV will nicely complement my MBP for photo editing. :D

Slydude
06-11-2013, 08:28 PM
The most interesting feature to me is multiple displays using AirPlay.

My 55in LG HDTV will nicely complement my MBP for photo editing. :D

Hadn't thought of that specific use but the demo did make men start to think about getting an Apple TV box. It would simplify a few things in my media setup. Now if they would release a server-type version of iTunes that would cinch the deal.

I am liking much of the performance features of the Mac Pro. The geek boy in me would miss tinkering with the insides but I have not done much of that with my last few machines.

My general philosophy has always been get the baddest beast you can afford and run the heck out of it for as long as possible. Unfortunately this beast may be a bit out of my budget range.

pigoo3
06-11-2013, 09:32 PM
I'm doing a little bit of catch up. ;)


A busy day yesterday!:)

- Nick

Dysfunction
06-11-2013, 09:51 PM
I'm doing a little bit of catch up. ;)

So, I just noticed this now (yes, I completely missed all the announcements and I'm just catching up now) - flash storage? Really? I'm partially surprised given Apple's move to flash storage but why not a hybrid option or better yet, solid state drives? I realize that it was chosen for space, energy and potentially heat reasons but how do you justify a pro machine with no user removable storage? Other than that though, it's one amazingly spec'd machine.

Why would ssd be better than flash?

dtravis7
06-11-2013, 09:54 PM
Why would ssd be better than flash?

Mike, because you can change out the SSD and not the flash card thing that Apple uses UNLESS OWC offers something like they do for the Air.

Dysfunction
06-11-2013, 09:59 PM
Mike, because you can change out the SSD and not the flash card thing that Apple uses UNLESS OWC offers something like they do for the Air.

This WILL happen. Shortly after release is my guess.

dtravis7
06-11-2013, 10:08 PM
This WILL happen. Shortly after release is my guess.

Oh I agree but you still are stuck with such a narrow selection of replacements! :D

chscag
06-11-2013, 10:32 PM
Oh I agree but you still are stuck with such a narrow selection of replacements! :D

Not only that, but expensive! Take a look at what OWC wants for the Flash Drive insertable card for the current Mac Pro. $$

dtravis7
06-11-2013, 10:33 PM
Not only that, but expensive! Take a look at what OWC wants for the Flash Drive insertable card for the current Mac Pro. $$

Oh for sure on that one! :D

TattooedMac
06-11-2013, 10:55 PM
Oh I agree but you still are stuck with such a narrow selection of replacements! :D

Agreed they will be expensive, BUT again, with such power, why or what would you want to tinker with in the New Mac Pro, With 40Gb/s transfer speeds, i would be happy with it the way it is, with a Terabyte beside me to backup to, and use back and forth . . . If i had the $ i would by as is, with a BackUp Array of ? Numbers of Disks . . .
I really can't see why people are bumming it at the new MP, and i reckon the true Professionals will be jumping at them when they come out and will sell better than the current one, because they can see the potential of the power this machine outputs :)

EDIT : Out of ALL the things in WWDC 2013, i think this is the only thing they got 100% right

quin
06-11-2013, 11:15 PM
I use external monitor in conjunction with the MBP 13. I also watch rented movies from iTunes through my HDTV. Having the ability for full screen apps on each display is awesome. And to move them around between displays is worth the upgrade just for that.

osxx
06-12-2013, 01:12 AM
10.9 offers some things I like but as usual I really hate to speculate until I have had hands on.
The MP doesn't do much for eye candy but the specs sure look mean.
I want the new features in iOS7 now!

vansmith
06-12-2013, 11:08 AM
The MP doesn't do much for eye candy but the specs sure look mean.They sure do. However, Ars offers up (http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/06/a-critical-look-at-the-new-mac-pro/) an interesting critical look at the machine as a power users tool (indeed, what it was designed to do). The essence of it is simply that it's a monster of a machine right now but since it's not upgradeable or customizable (he goes into why offering an Nvidia option would be a smart choice which isn't something I hadn't even considered), it could be limited in its longevity. Who knows how the after market third party providers will accommodate this though.

That review brings up an interesting point - part of the truly powerful functionality is limited by the software. OS X 10.9 brings in some nice OpenGL improvements but he points out the driver issues (I imagine that Apple will address those however). This is the major argument behind his lack of an Nvidia option - many high end content creation applications make use of CUDA (Nvidia's parallel computing architecture for their GPUs) which will be unavailable to the AMD cards. Although AMD and Apple have their own counterpart, they aren't interoperable which may preclude certain operations from working on thew Mac Pro. However, I've reached the extent of my knowledge in this area so I'll let the experts speak to how this may or may not be an issue.

milessthomas
06-12-2013, 11:55 AM
I use external monitor in conjunction with the MBP 13. I also watch rented movies from iTunes through my HDTV. Having the ability for full screen apps on each display is awesome. And to move them around between displays is worth the upgrade just for that.

I can't believe how long I've/we've been waiting for true multi-display from OS X. I remember posting on here back in 2009 about how there wasn't true recognition of multi-display configurations, and that the windows functioned essentially as a stretched map of the desktop. Then with Lion/Mountain Lion full screen apps completely befuddled how fullscreen on each display would work, with some companies including workarounds because the fullscreen icon would blank out the second display (VLC comes to mind).

I can take or leave a lot of the other features included, but fixing the workable dynamics of fullscreen workflow makes me eager to install 10.9!

My days of AutoCAD, Adobe, and Rhino3D will be made so much easier now.

Slydude
06-14-2013, 11:53 PM
Me too. I have also been waiting for a tagging function similar to what was described during the keynote. Hopefully that will work without getting in the way.

For the last few releases I have throated to bite the bullet and pay the costs needed to get in on the developer releases.

Adric
06-15-2013, 03:10 AM
Mavericks? No no no, I'm keeping the cat names. Henceforth, I will refer to Mavericks as...

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3421/3884962372_6a7448cb6d.jpg

CrimsonRequiem
06-15-2013, 03:25 AM
Mavericks? No no no, I'm keeping the cat names. Henceforth, I will refer to Mavericks as...

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3421/3884962372_6a7448cb6d.jpg

That looks pretty legit. XD

Thymen
06-15-2013, 10:11 AM
One thing that would make me upgrade to Mavericks immediately...

... FONT SCALING ...

So I can use my 27" hi res screen at it's native resolution without needing a lookup glass to see those darned small letters..

blackph0enix
06-15-2013, 12:52 PM
Did they ever use OS Bobcat?

Slydude
06-15-2013, 01:49 PM
Not on the final releases. I think there was some speculation at one time that it had been used as an internal "pre-release: name for one of the versions. Here's the list of names so far:

5.1 Public Beta: "Kodiak"
5.2 Version 10.0: "Cheetah"
5.3 Version 10.1: "Puma"
5.4 Version 10.2: "Jaguar"
5.5 Version 10.3: "Panther"
5.6 Version 10.4: "Tiger"
5.7 Version 10.5: "Leopard"
5.8 Version 10.6: "Snow Leopard"
5.9 Version 10.7: "Lion"
5.10 Version 10.8: "Mountain Lion"
5.11 Version 10.9: "Mavericks"

OS X - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS_X)

MBPi5
06-16-2013, 02:17 PM
I liked the idea of calling it Sabretooth

dan_f14
06-16-2013, 06:14 PM
Having read this thread I don't understand why there is such disappointment with the Mac Pro range. It has followed the same path as the Macbook Pro Retina's in a large and somewhat unsurprising way. Apple is a business after all. Cater to the high end and machines will become largely disposable. Not because they no longer work but because technology advances at such a phenomenally high rate that such machines will be obsolete. Catering for the professionals at the top of the game would require the best and latest equipment available. Whats the point in upgradeable hard drives when cloud storage is available? Whats the point in upgradeable RAM when the processor would be obsolete before a RAM upgrade would be needed. Tinkering and upgrading of machines is very much a lower end user than a premium high end user. The high end user can afford the best and will often want the best (if not so required from a hardware needs point of view then from a status point of view). Thus the machines aimed at the high end user will put upgradeability below form factor. And people who hark on about the lack of disk drive I don't get it. In 4 years of having my current MBP I have used my disk drive about 3 times. Indeed the last time I tried using it it didn't read a disk because of the dust that had accumulated on the laser. Just my two cents.

infocusinc
06-16-2013, 07:57 PM
Having read this thread I don't understand why there is such disappointment with the Mac Pro range. It has followed the same path as the Macbook Pro Retina's in a large and somewhat unsurprising way. Apple is a business after all. Cater to the high end and machines will become largely disposable. Not because they no longer work but because technology advances at such a phenomenally high rate that such machines will be obsolete. Catering for the professionals at the top of the game would require the best and latest equipment available. Whats the point in upgradeable hard drives when cloud storage is available? Whats the point in upgradeable RAM when the processor would be obsolete before a RAM upgrade would be needed. Tinkering and upgrading of machines is very much a lower end user than a premium high end user. The high end user can afford the best and will often want the best (if not so required from a hardware needs point of view then from a status point of view). Thus the machines aimed at the high end user will put upgradeability below form factor. And people who hark on about the lack of disk drive I don't get it. In 4 years of having my current MBP I have used my disk drive about 3 times. Indeed the last time I tried using it it didn't read a disk because of the dust that had accumulated on the laser. Just my two cents.

Wow! You really don't understand this market segment at all.

MBPi5
06-16-2013, 07:59 PM
Dan hits the nail on the head. Who uses an optical drive anymore? for the vast majority of software and games its all digital now.

infocusinc
06-16-2013, 08:02 PM
One thing that would make me upgrade to Mavericks immediately...

... FONT SCALING ...

So I can use my 27" hi res screen at it's native resolution without needing a lookup glass to see those darned small letters..

Amen. But tinker tools helps some.

Can you imagine system fonts on a 4k monitor?

infocusinc
06-16-2013, 08:11 PM
Dan hits the nail on the head. Who uses an optical drive anymore? for the vast majority of software and games its all digital now.


The lack of an optical is one of the least complaints about the pro I've heard anywhere.

Slydude
06-16-2013, 08:57 PM
I doubt pro users or tinkerers are concerned about the lack of optical drives. Heck they probably have a few spare external drives around at any given point in time.

I think they are more concerned about the lack of options in other areas. At the moment the biggest problem is probably the graphics card. While the existing cards appear to be monsters that will chew up anything thrown at them many pro users rely on software that is optimized for NVIDIA's cards. Hopefully I am not misunderstanding things.

Attention forum brain trust: Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I do not like being wrong but unfortunately it happens from time to time.

vansmith
06-16-2013, 09:19 PM
While the existing cards appear to be monsters that will chew up anything thrown at them many pro users rely on software that is optimized for NVIDIA's cards. Hopefully I am not misunderstanding things.You might like Nvidia section of this (http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/06/a-critical-look-at-the-new-mac-pro/2/) piece.

Slydude
06-16-2013, 11:56 PM
Thanks that clarifies things a bit. Not being a pro user this machine would be far and away more than I need. I will be curious to see the graphics performance in real world tests. I am also curious how well it will dissipate heat under load.

As I say I am not a pro user but I tend to buy machines like the Pro and push them for a long time. Most of the software I use doesn't seem to make as good a use of the power as they could.

Sawday
06-17-2013, 05:58 AM
Who uses an optical drive anymore?

Answer: Those of us who do not have a fast, reliable or, on some days, existing internet connection. No fibre (nor any plans to provide) in this part or Yorkshire so iCloud is a non starter.

vansmith
06-17-2013, 10:10 AM
I am also curious how well it will dissipate heat under load.This should be incredibly interesting. It's a brand new design and Apple's internal testing (as with any company's) can only account for so much. So, it should be interesting to see the creative ways in which people push that machine and the consequences for cooling.

pigoo3
06-17-2013, 10:39 AM
I think they are more concerned about the lack of options in other areas. At the moment the biggest problem is probably the graphics card. While the existing cards appear to be monsters that will chew up anything thrown at them many pro users rely on software that is optimized for NVIDIA's cards. Hopefully I am not misunderstanding things.

Attention forum brain trust: Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I do not like being wrong but unfortunately it happens from time to time.

Just to back up what you mentioned. At the WWDC it was stated that the "New Mac Pro" is designed to last 10 years.

I think at one time the advances in cpu technology (speed/processing power) would have made a statement like this pretty darn silly...but these days it seems like the norm is to just throw more cpu cores at a problem to speed things up. So if someone gets a 12-core "New Mac Pro"...yeah...they may get 10 years out of a New Mac Pro (from a cpu/# of cores standpoint). Of course graphics/video professionals will see a slowly degrading performance curve as time goes on & things get more advanced.

But when it comes to video/graphics hardware...hmmm...this is where I would also have concerns. Video/graphics hardware improvement seems to the "hottest" area at the moment when it comes to performance advances. Heck...with every new model MacBook Pro or iMac (every 12-18 months) we see new graphics hardware...which usually has a pretty decent increase in performance.

So for the non-upgradeable graphics hardware in the "New Mac Pro" (to last 10 years)...it would have to have one heck of a performance improvement over ANYTHING currently on the market. Because again...each subsequent year (of those 10 years)...the graphics performance of the new Mac Pro will slowly "degrade" comparatively speaking vs. the graphics hardware that will be included in new Apple computers (iMac's/MacBook Pro's) of the future.

Just think how if someone (Apple) back in 2003...predicted that they built a computer that would last 10 years (till 2013). Sure...you could use a 2003 computer in 2013...but not many folks would want to for their everyday needs (work/play).

So I guess we will have to see. The new Mac Pro's with up to 12-cores and 2 video cards (up to 12gig of vram) sounds pretty awesome!:)

- Nick

vansmith
06-17-2013, 11:46 AM
Just to back up what you mentioned. At the WWDC it was stated that the "New Mac Pro" is designed to last 10 years.At best, that's a pipe dream. There's no way that machine will last ten years. Use the current MP as a metric - that's five (five?) years old now and it looks ancient.


I think at one time the advances in cpu technology (speed/processing power) would have made a statement like this pretty darn silly...but these days it seems like the norm is to just throw more cpu cores at a problem to speed things up.It's the new modified version of the Ghz race - instead of speed, you ram in more cores unaware of the fact that a significant amount of software isn't multicore aware.


So if someone gets a 12-core "New Mac Pro"...yeah...they may get 10 years out of a New Mac Pro (from a cpu/# of cores standpoint). Of course graphics/video professionals will see a slowly degrading performance curve as time goes on & things get more advanced.This is my issue - how do you predict an area of research and development that, if history is anything to go by, is utterly unpredictable?


But when it comes to video/graphics hardware...hmmm...this is where I would also have concerns. Video/graphics hardware improvement seems to the "hottest" area at the moment when it comes to performance advances. Heck...with every new model MacBook Pro or iMac (every 12-18 months) we see new graphics hardware...which usually has a pretty decent increase in performance.I think this is for two reasons. One, more and more people are using languages and libraries to create hardware accelerated applications (the Linux world is notorious for this). Second, GPUs are considerably faster than CPUs at certain tasks and I think this is an attempt to leverage that. Then again, I admit that graphics hardware falls beyond the bounds of what I know.


Just think how if someone (Apple) back in 2003...predicted that they built a computer that would last 10 years (till 2013). Sure...you could use a 2003 computer in 2013...but not many folks would want to for their everyday needs (work/play).Ignoring the architecture change in that time period, a 2003 computer would be painfully slow. If I had to use the first notebook that I got today (got it in 2004), I'd go insane.


So I guess we will have to see. The new Mac Pro's with up to 12-cores and 2 video cards (up to 12gig of vram) sounds pretty awesome!:)It certainly is and if anyone would like to send me one, my address is...

MYmacROX
06-17-2013, 12:54 PM
I thought this thread was about Mavericks, not the new Mac Pro. ;P

vansmith
06-17-2013, 01:03 PM
I thought this thread was about Mavericks, not the new Mac Pro. ;PIt'll be about whatever I want it to be about! :P

Slydude
06-17-2013, 02:13 PM
I am glad we're touched on software that isn't multi-core aware. I am not a graphics pro by any means but I do spend some energy from time to time editing/transcoding video and a handful of other tasks that would benefit from being multi-core aware.

Back in the day when I had both a G5 and the Mac Pro the G5 was relatively idle much of the time. The thought occurred to me to make use of XGRID. In the long run I didm't do it because so little of the software I had made use of this feature.

pigoo3
06-17-2013, 02:22 PM
I am glad we're touched on software that isn't multi-core aware. I am not a graphics pro by any means but I do spend some energy from time to time editing/transcoding video and a handful of other tasks that would benefit from being multi-core aware.

Back in the day when I had both a G5 and the Mac Pro the G5 was relatively idle much of the time. The thought occurred to me to make use of XGRID. In the long run I didm't do it because so little of the software I had made use of this feature.

Here comes the Apple computer historian in me again!;) I seem to remember the first multi-processor Apple computer was something like a Powermac 9500 from back in the mid-1990's. The reviews of the computer (of course) were glowing...with the caveat that all we needed now was for software developers to rewrite (or write) software applications that were multi-cpu capable.

Here we are in 2013...and we (sadly) still have very few apps. that are multi-cpu/multi-core aware. And...some of those few apps that are multi-core aware...don't necessarily do a great job at it.

- Nick

Slydude
06-17-2013, 02:29 PM
I had forgotten that the multi-processor machines went back that far. Most of the software that I am aware of which is multi-processor aware is either something that I either don't need or cannot afford.

Now if our forum leaders could see fit to up the stipend for MoTM perhaps I could afford the new Mac Pro and ofcourse the software to make full use of it.:D

pigoo3
06-17-2013, 02:42 PM
I had forgotten that the multi-processor machines went back that far. Most of the software that I am aware of which is multi-processor aware is either something that I either don't need or cannot afford.


I was "quoting" (from memory) what I posted above. So just to satisfy my curiosity...I did a quick search...and came across this article from 1996:

Apple releases multiprocessor Power Mac line | ZDNet (http://www.zdnet.com/apple-releases-multiprocessor-power-mac-line-3002064037/)

So I guess (for the moment) my memory is still (mostly) not letting me down!;)

- Nick

RavingMac
06-17-2013, 03:25 PM
I thought this thread was about Mavericks, not the new Mac Pro. ;P

You really should pay more attention to thread titles . . . ;D


It'll be about whatever I want it to be about! :P

So let it be written; so let it be done! :P

dan_f14
06-17-2013, 05:34 PM
Wow! You really don't understand this market segment at all.

Perhaps not, but I figure Apple do.

The machine to me looks phenomenal with the power to run 3 4k displays and 7 teraflops of computing power. Nobody knows what the future holds and what technology will be available in 10 years time but given the power of this machine I'd wager it would still be pretty useful. I understand why people might not be overjoyed at the lack of upgradability but to me Apple is all about the symbiotic relationship between the hardware and the software. That of course comes from designing and building both. Adding new hardware into the mix would ruin this symbiotic relationship to some extent. To me if you want to install new hardware in the machines then buy a PC. Lets face it; it would be a lot cheaper.

vansmith
06-17-2013, 05:47 PM
You really should pay more attention to thread titles . . . ;D



So let it be written; so let it be done! :PThis new state of affairs pleases me. This should become a trend. ;)


Nobody knows what the future holds and what technology will be available in 10 years time but given the power of this machine I'd wager it would still be pretty useful.I bet people said that same thing about MPs released in 2003 and you couldn't make one of those cheap enough for me to want one right now as my main machine.


I understand why people might not be overjoyed at the lack of upgradability but to me Apple is all about the symbiotic relationship between the hardware and the software. That of course comes from designing and building both. Adding new hardware into the mix would ruin this symbiotic relationship to some extent. To me if you want to install new hardware in the machines then buy a PC. Lets face it; it would be a lot cheaper.This make it sound as if one has to stick to the hardware that comes with a machine which, in many cases, can be bested by purchasing better parts. Let's face it - Apple still ships Fujitsu 5400RPM drives in their machines. In no way does upgrading that drive ruin the "symbiotic relationship" between parts of the machine. In fact, it probably makes it better.

flopsy
06-17-2013, 07:07 PM
I think this incarnation of the Mac Pro has probably lost a bit of the tinker with it factor. It won't be as easy to do as some models have been. That bothers me but realistically in all the years I've owned G5 and Mac Pros cases I've only installed one card, extra memory, and an internal hard drives. This form factor might be a bigger issue for pros,

@Dennis Thanks for that link it got me up to speed on the info that I missed. I wonder how effective the cooling will be? This idea seems strangely reminiscent of the Cube (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Mac_G4_Cube)

Lost a bit?

The cooling will be more effective than the current Pro, but then the current Pro is no better than a consumer-grade / light-business Windows machine in terms of the effectiveness of cooling - the 'actually pro' workstations from HP and even Dell moves more air in a more noise-efficient manner, especially on the HP.

So I guess it means we can expect cooling to be somewhat on a par with e.g. the midrange Dell Precisions with less noise (though likely probably not that different noisewise to a liquid-cooled HP - who, unlike Apple, can build that without it leaking).

However, this is negated by the need for external boxen for anything else - take a Pegasus R6 for example, that will already pretty much obliterate the running noise of an HP workstation by itself.

Also I know that the prospect of being able to replace the GPU has been something of a joke for a while on the Pro, and I guess by presumably making the GPU's proprietary or MXM fit, they've pretty much admitted that you're never likely to swap the GPU within the 'Apple-designed' lifetime of the unit.

No doubt Apple-only users will normalise to the experience, but as some of the above posters have said, it means the Pro is only "Pro" for people who think they're the be-all of "pros" who solely edit video in air-conditioned suites.

Slydude
06-17-2013, 09:22 PM
Not lost at all. Just because a company says something should cool well does not mean that is will or is a good idea long term. Even if that company is Apple. Let us remember the liquid cooled G5 tower for example. I almost bought one but settled for one of the air cooled rigs. Long before that computer died I started seing problems from folks who owned liquid cooled rigs where the cooling had failed.

dan_f14
06-18-2013, 04:25 AM
I bet people said that same thing about MPs released in 2003 and you couldn't make one of those cheap enough for me to want one right now as my main machine.



I imagine they may well have done. This is only my opinion, and it may very well turn out to be wrong, however it is based on the following assumptions/observations. The machine is ample powerful enough for 4k video editing. 1080p TVs are not yet in every household and 4k TV sets are pretty new to the market. Current video broadcasts are not even 1080p. It would take a huge overhaul for broadcasters to output 1080p and I am unsure whether it is possible to broadcast 4k over the air. Of course 4K would be able to be streamed by those that have fantastic internet but as another user alluded to not everyone has reliable internet let alone great internet so this would be a rather niche group. The point here that I am trying to make is that in 10 years time 4k might just be in the position that 1080p TV sets are in now, and as such the Mac Pro will retain some usefulness in those circumstances.




This make it sound as if one has to stick to the hardware that comes with a machine which, in many cases, can be bested by purchasing better parts. Let's face it - Apple still ships Fujitsu 5400RPM drives in their machines. In no way does upgrading that drive ruin the "symbiotic relationship" between parts of the machine. In fact, it probably makes it better.

Indeed you are correct, but Apple had the wisdom to allow you to change the hard drive in those machines. In the Mac Pro we are talking about top end flash memory that would not need to be replaced to make it better. In any event a new graphics card with different drivers is going to have a much greater effect on what I describe as the symbiotic relationship than a new hard drive. Again just my two cents but I pay Apple to build me a damn fine machine. If I wanted to upgrade or put certain parts into a machine then I would build my own PC as it would be significantly cheaper and it would have every part inside that I wanted. Downside to that I suppose would be no OSX, or perhaps more correctly put, no legal OSX.

vansmith
06-18-2013, 10:03 AM
I imagine they may well have done. This is only my opinion, and it may very well turn out to be wrong, however it is based on the following assumptions/observations. The machine is ample powerful enough for 4k video editing. 1080p TVs are not yet in every household and 4k TV sets are pretty new to the market. Current video broadcasts are not even 1080p. It would take a huge overhaul for broadcasters to output 1080p and I am unsure whether it is possible to broadcast 4k over the air. Of course 4K would be able to be streamed by those that have fantastic internet but as another user alluded to not everyone has reliable internet let alone great internet so this would be a rather niche group. The point here that I am trying to make is that in 10 years time 4k might just be in the position that 1080p TV sets are in now, and as such the Mac Pro will retain some usefulness in those circumstances.Perhaps we have no idea what will be happening with 4K. Beyond that, you've listed only one feature that is perhaps semi-future proof. On top of that, what is a user supposed to do is the flash memory dies on them?


Indeed you are correct, but Apple had the wisdom to allow you to change the hard drive in those machines. In the Mac Pro we are talking about top end flash memory that would not need to be replaced to make it better.Ah but you're making the assumption that what's available in the machine will be the best for its lifecycle. Given that this machine is going to be very expensive and thus, likely used for a long time, it's hard to justify selling a machine that can't be upgraded when (as is inevitable) better hardware comes out.


Again just my two cents but I pay Apple to build me a damn fine machine. If I wanted to upgrade or put certain parts into a machine then I would build my own PC as it would be significantly cheaper and it would have every part inside that I wanted. Downside to that I suppose would be no OSX, or perhaps more correctly put, no legal OSX.I fail to see how user replaceable parts ruins this. If you like what Apple has done, don't touch the hardware. That way, you get your "symbiosis" and others get to upgrade and replace what will eventually become old and potentially outdated hardware.

infocusinc
06-18-2013, 11:09 AM
Perhaps not, but I figure Apple do.

The machine to me looks phenomenal with the power to run 3 4k displays and 7 teraflops of computing power. Nobody knows what the future holds and what technology will be available in 10 years time but given the power of this machine I'd wager it would still be pretty useful. I understand why people might not be overjoyed at the lack of upgradability but to me Apple is all about the symbiotic relationship between the hardware and the software. That of course comes from designing and building both. Adding new hardware into the mix would ruin this symbiotic relationship to some extent. To me if you want to install new hardware in the machines then buy a PC. Lets face it; it would be a lot cheaper.

Let me quote a user on another forum....this is a big part of the market they are shooting at...

I've been holding off on buying a PC to see WHEN Apple's tower would come out... now everything has changed. For most of my motion work the Nvidia cards are far more productive. Both Premier and Resolve make better use of CUDA than Open CL. I also need FAST storage. My SAS RAID will do about 800Mb/s at best, are there any Thunderbolt RAIDs that beat that? Even match it? Also, Thunderbolt is as fast as, what, 4x PCIe? That makes external PCI housings really unattractive.

My current workhorse is a 2010 12 core, 48 GB RAM, SSD Boot Drive, 12GB internal storage and 16GB external SAS storage. PCI expansion chassis, 2x Nvidia Quadro 4000 & GTX 570, RedRocket, Decklink for HD-SDI out, RAID card, eSATA card... I just can't see the cute little black garbage can replacing that...

I'm looking at the HP Z820 RED Edition. Very roomy on the inside, built-in RED Mag readers, 7 PCI slots. I think I could even ditch my expansion chassis.

I think the new MacPro will be great for many users, I just don't believe it's going to do it for me. Drag.

I think Apple is gonna see quite a few sales lost to PC boxes. Not that the users will really want to go windows but needs will force them.

vansmith
06-18-2013, 11:24 AM
Both Premier and Resolve make better use of CUDA than Open CL.I'm not a graphics guy by any means so I'm truly surprised at how much this appears to be a problem for so many people. I hadn't realized that a considerable amount of software had been tailored for CUDA and how much easier it was to write CUDA applications. One can hope that Apple offers an Nvidia variant down the line at some point.

Slydude
06-18-2013, 12:45 PM
I'm not a graphics guy by any means so I'm truly surprised at how much this appears to be a problem for so many people. I hadn't realized that a considerable amount of software had been tailored for CUDA and how much easier it was to write CUDA applications. One can hope that Apple offers an Nvidia variant down the line at some point.
Same here. Although I would like to see the developers do a better job handling CUDA and Open CL (probably a major undertaking) I'm not holding my breath on that score. If the state of multiprocessor support is any indication it could be a while.

For me the bigger hurdle to overcome mentally is the lack of user upgradability for hard drives, graphics, etc. I'm hours away from the nearest Apple store when the hard drive died in my Mac Pro a while back a 15 minute call to apple convinced the guy that the drive was dead and they cross shipped a replacement. I could have replaced the graphics card but by the time that started to fail it wasn't worth sinking the cash into it.

The new setup should have fewer of those kinds of failures but lets face it they are going to happen. When it does that means a trip to the shop for me.

vansmith
06-18-2013, 06:00 PM
Same here. Although I would like to see the developers do a better job handling CUDA and Open CL (probably a major undertaking) I'm not holding my breath on that score.From the sounds of it, writing something for OpenCL and CUDA are two very different projects. However, I found something interesting (https://developer.nvidia.com/opencl) - Nvidia supports OpenCL on their GPUs. It would almost seems smarter to write with OpenCL but, from what I've read, it's the relative ease of CUDA compared to OpenCL that seems to win over developers.

CookieMonsterXo
07-01-2013, 11:01 PM
Any new major OS X version will be distributed through the Mac App Store (on your Dock).



Generally, new major OS X versions are about $30, though that cost has varied a bit in the past. Yes, I think it's worth it.



No.
Thank you for answering my questions!
So, when the BTS promo starts soon, and we get the $100 gift card (assuming that's what it will be again), we would be able to use that gift card towards upgrading to OSX Mavericks, correct?

pigoo3
07-01-2013, 11:42 PM
Thank you for answering my questions!
So, when the BTS promo starts soon, and we get the $100 gift card (assuming that's what it will be again)...

Like you mentioned...assuming there is a BTS promo...we would also need to wait & see what the details are.

- Nick

CookieMonsterXo
07-02-2013, 12:57 AM
Like you mentioned...assuming there is a BTS promo...we would also need to wait & see what the details are.

- Nick

Rumor has it that it's starting this week, quite possibly even tomorrow (Tuesday).
But then again, it's not the first time we've heard rumors about this year's BTS promo already. ;)

TattooedMac
07-02-2013, 04:26 AM
Like you mentioned...assuming there is a BTS promo...we would also need to wait & see what the details are.

- Nick


Rumor has it that it's starting this week, quite possibly even tomorrow (Tuesday).
But then again, it's not the first time we've heard rumors about this year's BTS promo already. ;)

What is this BTS Promo you talk of ??

Something else us Aussies miss out again I bet :-/

chas_m
07-02-2013, 04:50 AM
TM: BTS stands for Back To School. I think Apple runs this promo in many countries, but the timing varies.

TattooedMac
07-02-2013, 07:23 AM
TM: BTS stands for Back To School. I think Apple runs this promo in many countries, but the timing varies.


Thanks mate. We do have a Education Program that Apple do run here, but its not so much Back to School. Its all year round for the discounts. Happy my new partner is a Teacher ;) Got Windows 7 & 8 for $15 a piece through Aust Eduction Program ;)

CookieMonsterXo
07-02-2013, 12:28 PM
What is this BTS Promo you talk of ??

Something else us Aussies miss out again I bet :-/


TM: BTS stands for Back To School. I think Apple runs this promo in many countries, but the timing varies.


Thanks mate. We do have a Education Program that Apple do run here, but its not so much Back to School. Its all year round for the discounts. Happy my new partner is a Teacher ;) Got Windows 7 & 8 for $15 a piece through Aust Eduction Program ;)

BTS=Back To School Promotion
It's not quite the same as the Education Program.
You get a free $100 Gift Card (or $50 for iOS devices), on top of your educational discount.
I thought I read the one in Australia was back in January, so it would be over now.

XJ-linux
07-02-2013, 02:28 PM
A "ten year computer" with a 3 year (at best) warranty? Will this hardware still be officially supported by Apple in 10 years? Will the 2023 version of OS X, XI, XII or iOSwhatever be allowed (by Apple) to be installed on this system? If so then it's a great hedge against inflation. Seems a bit of a stretch to me, but what do I know.

jt1968
07-03-2013, 12:15 AM
I feel the same way! I want the cat back ;)

I agree. They could've named 10.9 "Feline"

RONE
07-03-2013, 12:53 AM
A "ten year computer" with a 3 year (at best) warranty? Will this hardware still be officially supported by Apple in 10 years? Will the 2023 version of OS X, XI, XII or iOSwhatever be allowed (by Apple) to be installed on this system? If so then it's a great hedge against inflation. Seems a bit of a stretch to me, but what do I know.

I still regularly use my 10 year old MacBook Pro and it's running 10.6.

chscag
07-03-2013, 03:20 AM
I still regularly use my 10 year old MacBook Pro and it's running 10.6.

Your math is a bit off. The MacBook Pro first appeared in 2006, (actually Feb 2006) that would make it at the most 7 years and 5 months old.

dtravis7
07-03-2013, 04:40 AM
I still regularly use my 10 year old MacBook Pro and it's running 10.6.

Agree with Chscag.

Also 10.6.8 is still not that old and while not really supported still new enough so you won't see any major problems with every day usage. Try going back to even 10.5 and you will start to see some sites that do not work right and no way to update to a browser that will work 100%. Go to 10.4 Tiger and the problem is many fold worse!

XJ-linux
07-03-2013, 10:57 AM
Wasn't trying to rabble rouse. I still have a Sony VAIO Pentium 3 Win XP system that runs well enough to check email and surf the web... poorly. Like I said, if this thing runs such that in a decade people aren't scavenging eBay for elusive discontinued proprietary parts, and you can still update the OS to support HTML9 Responsive Boilerstrap (or whatever is hot in 2023) then I'm all for it. I just haven't really seen anything that makes me think this particular system is somehow different. I'd love to be proven wrong though. I'd happily go so far as to even finance $5k @ today's nil% interest rates for something that would not need replacement again until the early-2020's. ;)

RONE
07-05-2013, 11:52 PM
Your math is a bit off. The MacBook Pro first appeared in 2006, (actually Feb 2006) that would make it at the most 7 years and 5 months old.

I'm going to have to pull my purchase receipt, because that really doesn't jive with the events in my life that I remember around the time I purchased my laptop. I'm not saying you're wrong (mostly because I assume you did a google search to find the release date), I'm just saying my memory of events lead me to believe it truly was older than that. Memories are funny things.

RONE
07-05-2013, 11:55 PM
Agree with Chscag.

Also 10.6.8 is still not that old and while not really supported still new enough so you won't see any major problems with every day usage. Try going back to even 10.5 and you will start to see some sites that do not work right and no way to update to a browser that will work 100%. Go to 10.4 Tiger and the problem is many fold worse!

Yes, but the architecture those OS's were designed for (Power PC) is a little different than the Intel chips currently in use. No saying such a change couldn't occur again, but Apple is definitely looking pretty content with their more mainstream processors.

chas_m
07-06-2013, 01:12 AM
Agree with Chscag.

Also 10.6.8 is still not that old and while not really supported

I have to take issue with this statement: as far as I can tell, 10.6.8 is as fully-supported as Lion and Mountain Lion except for point updates (which Lion doesn't get either).

All the latest Apple software works with Snow; by virtual of being all-Intel, it receives the latest Java, Flash, QuickTime, iTunes, security, printer/camera and server updates; it even runs the Mac App Store (and thus almost everything on there is Snow-compatible). About the only thing I think that is really big that Snow Leopard has been left behind on is iCloud, though I'm happy to be corrected on this.

This is the real reason most people think Snow Leopard is so great: it's well-supported, familiar and hasn't been obsoleted as badly as, say, Leopard.

If you have a pre-2009 machine, particularly one with the early Intel graphics chipsets or a hard limit on RAM (like my beloved BlackBook for example), I would be the first to say that Snow Leopard is the best OS for it, and you should stay there on that hardware.

Post-2009, however, I'd have to say that Mountain Lion is the best, and would encourage people to move up to it. Lion had some teething troubles with versions, save as and other changes that were not wholly successful, but that's why they keep polishing this stuff. For security reasons alone, I'd say that if your machine can run ML well you need to be running it.



still new enough so you won't see any major problems with every day usage. Try going back to even 10.5 and you will start to see some sites that do not work right and no way to update to a browser that will work 100%. Go to 10.4 Tiger and the problem is many fold worse![/QUOTE]