What's so great about Macs?

mdurkin · Feb 27, 2013

Hello,

I am relatively new to Mac, well sort of. I have used a mac for over 20 years, but not very often. I have mostly used either Windows or Linux. I haven't personally owned a MAC since
the early 90's. I have used many Mac's since then in audio/video production.

Anyway, I recently bought a Macbook Pro (15", 2.8 GHZ, 16 GB RAM, 500 Gb SSD), a pretty beefy machine. It works fine, but I am not sure what everyone loves about Mac's. Bought two actually, my wife also wanted one and apparently, we can't share

.

After having used it almost exclusively for the past week, I am not sure what the love affair is with Mac's. Seems to me like it's way over priced and doesn't do anything better than either Windows or Linux and lots of other things are more difficult. I realize that some of this is a transition, I am not nearly as familiar with Mac as I am with either Linux or Windows as I have only used a mac for single threaded purposes (video applications, sound production etc) for the past several years. The machine has a little better sex appeal, but on the other hand lacks lots of things (DVD Drive, Network interface card, 10 key number pad, limited USB ports), the retina display is nice, but no better than my system 76 Ubuntu computer, actually, I prefer the Ubuntu on system 76, much sharper images in my opinion.

Am I missing something here? What's the big deal that I have been listening to from the Mac crowd for the past 20 years?

This isn't a personal attack, just my observation. Seems like there is much more flexibility from both Windows and Linux. Your thoughts? What is better?

pigoo3 · Feb 27, 2013

mdurkin said:
I am relatively new to Mac, well sort of. I have used a mac for over 20 years, but not very often. I have mostly used either Windows or Linux. I haven't personally owned a MAC since
the early 90's. I have used many Mac's since then in audio/video production.

Anyway, I recently bought a Macbook Pro (15", 2.8 GHZ, 16 GB RAM, 500 Gb SSD), a pretty beefy machine. It works fine, but I am not sure what everyone loves about Mac's. Bought two actually, my wife also wanted one and apparently, we can't share .

Am I missing something here? What's the big deal that I have been listening to from the Mac crowd for the past 20 years?

I think that with the amount of Macintosh experience you have...if you cannot answer your own question(s)...sorry...but I really don't think that anything we can say is going to be of much help.

20 years of off & on experience (and recently buying TWO 15" MacBook Pro's) is quite a bit of experience.

Much much much more experience than the typical person asking the age-old...which is better...Windows or Macintosh computer question!

I'm confused why you're asking this question AFTER you purchased TWO 15" MacBook Pro's (at least a $3500+ investment). This would have been a much better question asked BEFORE purchasing!

- Nick

dtravis7 · Feb 27, 2013

What is a System 76? Right now there is no display overall that can keep up with the Retina in the MPB as far as Pixel density as least. As far as sharpness, there are threads here and solutions. Something about Font Smoothing.

Edit: I found the System 76. Looks interesting. I doubt the display itself is any better than Apples Retina. Since the Retina came out others have been playing catch up, but overall the Retina still leads the pack from all I have read from places I trust.

chscag · Feb 27, 2013

After having used it almost exclusively for the past week, I am not sure what the love affair is with Mac's. Seems to me like it's way over priced and doesn't do anything better than either Windows or Linux and lots of other things are more difficult.

Welcome to the Mac Forums.

Your post is borderline trolling. If you're here to complain that's one thing, but if you're here to stir things up, it won't be tolerated.

If you truly want to get the most out of your investment, then sit back and read through our forums paying special attention to the blogs and stickies. Perhaps you'll learn more that way rather than getting off to a rocky start with your first post.

Groovetube · Feb 28, 2013

I don't know, I recently got the new top retina mbp, 768/16 and even though I came from a relatively newish mbp dual i7, I was still knocked over by the performance, and that screen!!!

I use windows and os x by day quite often, and over time I have grown to really not look forward to time spent in windows, though win7 has improved. Win8 is a slow car crash in the making.

I don't know how one can use this computer and not be blown away by it. But, for the sake of argument, there are people who simply don't see the amazing retina screen, the razor sharp text, etc. In the case of regular use, web, email word etc., I don't know why anyone would spend on the 16 gig version in the first place. Get the base model for a grand less, because you really aren't going to appreciate the performance factor.

I do, since I run apps that are processor/ram hungry, and I'm loving it.

As far as os x vs windows, 2 things, not having constant nag things asking or telling me something I couldn't give a turd about, and not really needing to worry about viruses and malware/spyware. And, 3rd, never having to reinstall my OS ever again. Priceless.

Sign me up

Even though I like techie things in general, I prefer to spend my time pressing on, doing what I like creatively, and pressing off when I'm done, rather than googling why my computer is doing blah blah blah.

mdurkin · Feb 28, 2013

chscag said:
Welcome to the Mac Forums.

Your post is borderline trolling. If you're here to complain that's one thing, but if you're here to stir things up, it won't be tolerated.

If you truly want to get the most out of your investment, then sit back and read through our forums paying special attention to the blogs and stickies. Perhaps you'll learn more that way rather than getting off to a rocky start with your first post.

I'm not sure what you mean about trolling, I am simply asking what I am missing. I have used many Mac's, but haven't owned one in years. This is how I see it so far.

a Mac is a nice computer, works well, looks good. It seems to be well suited for video, audio and desktop publishing. A Mac is a very closed system, you get what you buy and can't really change it. The OS and hardware are very well polished, the hardware is 'sexy'.

Linux is a great platform for developers, works well and is highly customizable. Stable system, lots of available software, but many of the software packages, though free, lack polish and can be very difficult to make work.

Windows is a good all around system that can do just about anything, though it may not be the best for specific purposes. There are lots of applications, just about anything can be installed and will run on it, though some applications are better suited for either Mac or Linux. Hardware is very open, can be modified at any point.

I am just wondering how others feel, am I right about this. Like I said, nothing personal, just wondering if my impressions are the same as others.

I like the Macbook, it works well, is fast, seems to be stable (though it did lock up one time so far). There are some quirks about it that are annoying (like you can't always make a window full screen, lacks DVD drive, lacks network interface, limited amount of USB ports, can't upgrade the hardware). I have a love hate relationship with Microsoft. As a company they really annoy me at times, mostly surrounding their licensing. But I do think they make a great overall product and for business, they make the most sense (better automation, security controls, remote administration etc). The problem with Linux, in my estimation, is that it is too difficult to get something to work on and lots of things just won't work. Linux lacks standardization and just because it worked on Red Hat, doesn't mean it will on Ubuntu. Both Mac and Microsoft are far better with standardization.

That's how I see it. Tonight I will be using my personal Mac book (verses one that someone else or company owns) for the first time for audio production. I am excited and think it will definitely work better than the Windows device I failed to get to initialize the USB MIDI driver to initialize on.

pigoo3 · Feb 28, 2013

mdurkin said:
I like the Macbook, it works well, is fast, seems to be stable (though it did lock up one time so far). There are some quirks about it that are annoying (like you can't always make a window full screen, lacks DVD drive, lacks network interface, limited amount of USB ports, can't upgrade the hardware).

Regarding the DVD drive. All Apple laptops did have a DVD up until recently. Fewer and fewer folks really need DVD drives anymore (most software is distributed via internet downloads these days):

- music downloaded via iTunes
- movies downloaded via iTunes
- applications downloaded via the Mac App Store
- OS upgrades and updates are download only
- etc.

And when folks do need a DVD drive it is very rare. And if they REALLY need one...an external DVD drive can be purchased for about $50 bucks.

Removing the DVD drive allows for:

- reduced weight
- reduced thickness
- reduced cost

As far as Apple laptops not having upgradeable hardware. How much hardware upgrading can you do on the average Windows laptop?? Not much!

I cannot believe you haven't complained that Apple laptops not having a VGA port!

- Nick

mdurkin · Feb 28, 2013

Groovetube said:
I don't know, I recently got the new top retina mbp, 768/16 and even though I came from a relatively newish mbp dual i7, I was still knocked over by the performance, and that screen!!!

It's a great screen, no doubt, just saying side by side with my System 76, not as sharp and clear. The Specs of the System 76 display are for higher resolution, which may explain it (less pixilation), but I thought that there was going to be a noticeable improvement in the Macbook Pro, there isn't. Maybe there's a setting I need to tweak.

Groovetube said:
I use windows and os x by day quite often, and over time I have grown to really not look forward to time spent in windows, though win7 has improved. Win8 is a slow car crash in the making.

I have every version of Windows from XP to Windows 8 (most are windows 7 now, but one straggler). I am on the fence on Windows 8, on the one hand it is truly different and innovative, particularly in touch screen devices. I have a Windows Phone, after trying all others (iPhone, Android, Blackberry) and I do think the Windows phone interface is the best, but I am not sure that it will cross over well to PC's. You can always switch to the classic desktop if you like. I am still not sure about it. Probably not a good things since I have been using Windows 8 for a bit now.

Groovetube said:
I don't know how one can use this computer and not be blown away by it. But, for the sake of argument, there are people who simply don't see the amazing retina screen, the razor sharp text, etc. In the case of regular use, web, email word etc., I don't know why anyone would spend on the 16 gig version in the first place. Get the base model for a grand less, because you really aren't going to appreciate the performance factor.

Two reasons by I paid a grand more. The first is that I use it for specific purpose, more is better in that case, can't have it slowing down in the middle of an audio recording, that would be a disaster. The other hardware factor is the hard drive, the model I got has a 500 GB SSD, I need the hard drive space. The second reason is that the hardware is closed. I can't upgrade it later, so may as well get the most I can now.

Groovetube said:
I do, since I run apps that are processor/ram hungry, and I'm loving it.

As far as os x vs windows, 2 things, not having constant nag things asking or telling me something I couldn't give a turd about, and not really needing to worry about viruses and malware/spyware. And, 3rd, never having to reinstall my OS ever again. Priceless.

The performance is good so far, no complaints at all. Though, I think any PC with the same processor, RAM and SSD drives would be fast and perform well. I cab't remember the last time I had to reinstall Windows or had a virus/malware problem. It was many years ago, over 12. I do have friends that had problems with it, but they were just doing stupid things and not taking the right security precautions, allowing unknown sources to change their PC etc. Mostly, it's just using common techie sense and not letting things happen. Windows is for sure the most attacked OS, because it's the most used OS, but it's not hard to avoid those problems.

Groovetube said:
Sign me up

Even though I like techie things in general, I prefer to spend my time pressing on, doing what I like creatively, and pressing off when I'm done, rather than googling why my computer is doing blah blah blah.

I've spent more time googling why this and why that since I got my Mac than I did with either Linux or Windows. But, that's mostly just my learning curve. Since I owned my last MAC over 20 years ago, I haven't had a need to do anything other than specific applications on a Mac, so I am not familiar with the nuances of the OS.

The one thing that is driving me nuts, and apparently lots of people is that every time I reboot my Mac, it looses the wireless network settings, even though I have 'locked' the config. Still have to rediscover the network every time. Seems like this has been an ongoing problem for years from reading the blogs. Not sure how that isn't resolved.

mdurkin · Feb 28, 2013

pigoo3 said:
Regarding the DVD drive. All Apple laptops did have a DVD up until recently. Fewer and fewer folks really need DVD drives anymore (most software is distributed via internet downloads these days):

- music downloaded via iTunes
- movies downloaded via iTunes
- applications downloaded via the Mac App Store
- OS upgrades and updates are download only
- etc.

And when folks do need a DVD drive it is very rare. And if they REALLY need one...an external DVD drive can be purchased for about $50 bucks.

Removing the DVD drive allows for:

- reduced weight
- reduced thickness
- reduced cost

As far as Apple laptops not having upgradeable hardware. How much hardware upgrading can you do on the average Windows laptop?? Not much!

I cannot believe you haven't complained that Apple laptops not having a VGA port!

- Nick

I agree mostly, I don't use a DVD often. Another reason why they may not have it is battery life. A CD or DVD drive can SAP a battery. I usually turn it off if I am on battery and not using the DVD drive.

I travel frequently and rent a DVD from Red Box or block buster express. The wireless, even though they call it high speed at most hotels, isn't fast enough to watch online or download a movie.

The other thing that I use a DVD for is burning CD's. Lots of the budding musicians I work with don't have internet, or even a computer. They are broke and want to hear music on CD's, they seem to have a CD player.

I would prefer to not pay the iTunes price for movies, but I will still travel with my Linux laptop and Android tablet, so I can download from Google or Amazon prior to leaving for business trips.

I am good with no VGA port, though I do sometimes use that. Most newer monitors or projectors have HDMI or I can always get the adapter that I see tethered to Mac's that project so often.

mdurkin · Feb 28, 2013

Just have to say, I love the cup of coffee in your picture, looks delicious.

pigoo3 · Feb 28, 2013

mdurkin said:
I agree mostly, I don't use a DVD often. Another reason why they may not have it is battery life. A CD or DVD drive can SAP a battery. I usually turn it off if I am on battery and not using the DVD drive.

I travel frequently and rent a DVD from Red Box or block buster express. The wireless, even though they call it high speed at most hotels, isn't fast enough to watch online or download a movie.

The other thing that I use a DVD for is burning CD's. Lots of the budding musicians I work with don't have internet, or even a computer. They are broke and want to hear music on CD's, they seem to have a CD player.

I would prefer to not pay the iTunes price for movies, but I will still travel with my Linux laptop and Android tablet, so I can download from Google or Amazon prior to leaving for business trips.

Yes...these are all valid reasons for wanting/needing a DVD drive. But for the majority of users...a DVD drive is not as necessary as it would have been just a few years ago. So Apple had to make a possibly difficult or unpopular decision removing the DVD drive...but by removing it...it does open up some new design possibilities (thinner, less weight, etc.).

What you have to realize is...the "Windows World" and the "Apple World" are completely different "worlds". Apple really only competes with itself...so Apple is free to make all sorts of changes, innovations, etc. at the drop of a hat.

But in the "Windows World"...there is lots and lots of competition (HP, Sony, Dell, Lenovo, ACER, ASUS, Toshiba, Samsung, etc, etc.). They are all afraid to make any changes...just in case the change they make will give "the other guys" a competitive advantage if the change they make ends up being a dud!!! Why the heck do we still see VGA ports on Windows computers...how antiquated!!!

Also realize that if it wasn't for Apple...Windows computers (desktops and laptops) would still look and act the same as they did back in 1995. How often has Apple been innovative in terms of hardware improvements, industrial/ergonomic design, battery life, display improvements, etc....and then the next year you see the Windows computer companies copying EXACTLY what Apple is doing. I could probably give you a list as long as my arm of innovations Apple has introduced first...and then the Windows World copied it!!!

Basically what I'm trying to say is...you cannot compare Windows computers and Apple computers...they are different "animals". As soon as you do this...you are setting yourself up for failure/disappointment. The Macintosh/Apple "experience" is really more about the:

- simplicity of operation
- reliability of operation
- and the ease of use of the Mac OS

It's not about how many USB ports, a DVD drive, networking card upgrades, or having a VGA port, etc.

- Nick

Groovetube · Feb 28, 2013

mdurkin said:
It's a great screen, no doubt, just saying side by side with my System 76, not as sharp and clear. The Specs of the System 76 display are for higher resolution, which may explain it (less pixilation), but I thought that there was going to be a noticeable improvement in the Macbook Pro, there isn't. Maybe there's a setting I need to tweak.

I have every version of Windows from XP to Windows 8 (most are windows 7 now, but one straggler). I am on the fence on Windows 8, on the one hand it is truly different and innovative, particularly in touch screen devices. I have a Windows Phone, after trying all others (iPhone, Android, Blackberry) and I do think the Windows phone interface is the best, but I am not sure that it will cross over well to PC's. You can always switch to the classic desktop if you like. I am still not sure about it. Probably not a good things since I have been using Windows 8 for a bit now.

Two reasons by I paid a grand more. The first is that I use it for specific purpose, more is better in that case, can't have it slowing down in the middle of an audio recording, that would be a disaster. The other hardware factor is the hard drive, the model I got has a 500 GB SSD, I need the hard drive space. The second reason is that the hardware is closed. I can't upgrade it later, so may as well get the most I can now.

The performance is good so far, no complaints at all. Though, I think any PC with the same processor, RAM and SSD drives would be fast and perform well. I cab't remember the last time I had to reinstall Windows or had a virus/malware problem. It was many years ago, over 12. I do have friends that had problems with it, but they were just doing stupid things and not taking the right security precautions, allowing unknown sources to change their PC etc. Mostly, it's just using common techie sense and not letting things happen. Windows is for sure the most attacked OS, because it's the most used OS, but it's not hard to avoid those problems.

I've spent more time googling why this and why that since I got my Mac than I did with either Linux or Windows. But, that's mostly just my learning curve. Since I owned my last MAC over 20 years ago, I haven't had a need to do anything other than specific applications on a Mac, so I am not familiar with the nuances of the OS.

The one thing that is driving me nuts, and apparently lots of people is that every time I reboot my Mac, it looses the wireless network settings, even though I have 'locked' the config. Still have to rediscover the network every time. Seems like this has been an ongoing problem for years from reading the blogs. Not sure how that isn't resolved.

Audio. I know audio well I was (still) a pro musician. I tend to do more performance than recording admittedly, but, I do have recording gear, and spend a lot of time in studios.

The thing to remember, is the computer itself, is just a computer. It still has an intel processor, same kind of ram, a motherboard, and an i/o, just like any pc. The actual presentation is sexy, but the internal, is just a computer like the others.

It's the OS, and the environment that's key here. Most people coming from the pc world, generally don't catch on to this concept until they've spent some time in OS X, and eventually it begins to make sense.

Linux is a fine system, however, OS X is basically (ok well freeBSD) a 'nix OS but with all the creature comforts of being a commercial OS with just as many apps available as the windows platform. The days of, windows have more programs, are long gone. Done.

As far as the display is concerned, you're missing one important detail. First off, your retina can absolutely do the resolution your system76 can. Simply go into display properties, select scaled and click the more space, it'll go to 1920 x 1200 which is actually a higher resolution than your system76 extreme. (it does 1920 x 1080) but with one extra important detail. The dpi on the retina is way higher than the system76, so it will definitely be sharper. These aren't 72/96 screens they're around 220! That's what makes them 'retina' displays.

So technically no, the system76 screen don't hold a candle to these.

As far as windows reinstallations, it depends on how picky you are. I was very careful with my windows computers, and knew what I was doing. But regardless of my attempts, between the inevitable registry bloats (registry cleaning never, ever worked enough for me) and periodic file corruptions etc., always had me reinstalling at some point.

But I have the benefit of having used both windows machines, and macs for many years each, and eventually, you will see the differences much clearer.

mdurkin · Feb 28, 2013

pigoo3 said:
Yes...these are all valid reasons for wanting/needing a DVD drive. But for the majority of users...a DVD drive is not as necessary as it would have been just a few years ago. So Apple had to make a possibly difficult or unpopular decision removing the DVD drive...but by removing it...it does open up some new design possibilities (thinner, less weight, etc.).

What you have to realize is...the "Windows World" and the "Apple World" are completely different "worlds". Apple really only competes with itself...so Apple is free to make all sorts of changes, innovations, etc. at the drop of a hat.

But in the "Windows World"...there is lots and lots of competition (HP, Sony, Dell, Lenovo, ACER, ASUS, Toshiba, Samsung, etc, etc.). They are all afraid to make any changes...just in case the change they make will give "the other guys" a competitive advantage if the change they make ends up being a dud!!! Why the heck do we still see VGA ports on Windows computers...how antiquated!!!

Also realize that if it wasn't for Apple...Windows computers (desktops and laptops) would still look and act the same as they did back in 1995. How often has Apple been innovative in terms of hardware improvements, industrial/ergonomic design, battery life, display improvements, etc....and then the next year you see the Windows computer companies copying EXACTLY what Apple is doing. I could probably give you a list as long as my arm of innovations Apple has introduced first...and then the Windows World copied it!!!

Basically what I'm trying to say is...you cannot compare Windows computers and Apple computers...they are different "animals". As soon as you do this...you are setting yourself up for failure/disappointment. The Macintosh/Apple "experience" is really more about the:

- simplicity of operation
- reliability of operation
- and the ease of use of the Mac OS

It's not about how many USB ports, a DVD drive, networking card upgrades, or having a VGA port, etc.

- Nick

The point about Apple only competing with itself is important. It is part of their business model and to a large degree why they are able to be successful and drive innovation.

When you can customize the hardware and OS together, you can achieve amazing results. The one problem is that you also limit innovation (by excluding outside development).

Though, I would have to say that Apple has always been pretty forward thinking and does a great job of innovation on it's own.

It's kind of funny, seems like I have found myself owning all three (Windows, Linux and Mac) because each has a strength that I choose to exploit. There is no one perfect platform for me I guess.

bobtomay · Feb 28, 2013

The System 76 display is well below par compared to the MBP retina.

15" System 76 is a 1080p screen = 1920x1080
15" MBP Retina = 2880 x 1800

As for text being sharper on the System 76, that is entirely possible and one of my personal gripes about Macs. Has to do with font rendering - MS (and Linux has followed suit) hammers fonts into shape, while Apple has taken the route of rendering fonts as they appear when printed - thus, they definitely are not as sharp on screen - and one of the reasons why higher resolutions make a lot of sense with OS X.

I tried all sorts of tricks with my first Mac to try and get sharper looking text. Eventually, maybe a year, I got use to the appearance and it no longer bothers me unless I'm putting text up on a 42" or larger 1080p screen - then it still just sucks - while Win XP or 7 text still looks nice and crisp on 1080p screens I've used up to 65".

You can find quite a few write-ups comparing font rendering between Windows and OS X with a little searching - some pretty good ones. ALmost comes down to a matter of taste - I just prefer the way Windows hammers fonts into sharp and crisp lines rather than what the font probably should really look like.

There are more than a few that use multiple OSs around here.
General personal computing, my Mac it is - for some specialized tasks, Windows it is. Haven't really given any Linux flavor a shot in the last 4-5 years.

pigoo3 · Feb 28, 2013

mdurkin said:
There is no one perfect platform for me I guess.

Regardless that this is a Macintosh/Apple themed forum...we actually have lots of folks here with extensive Windows computer experience (and ongoing experience). Since almost all large, medium, and small companies use Windows computers...many of us sit in front of a Windows computer 8, 10, 12+ hours or more each day at work...and many members on Mac-Forums work in various computer related fields (which means LOTS of current experience with Windows computers)!

That's why when someone new joins Mac-Forum's...and is confused (or starts complaining) about the differences between a Macintosh vs. a Windows computer...we know what we are talking about. We have a vast amount of experience with both platforms (Macintosh & Windows).

We also don't participate in the "Which is better...Macintosh or Windows?" discussions...since it's really pointless. Both are different...both have their strengths...and everyone has an opinion (which they are entitled to have).

Regarding the "There is no one perfect platform"...we actually tell this to folks asking all the time. Especially (for example) when it comes to folks whose main priority is gaming.

- Nick

XJ-linux · Feb 28, 2013

mdurkin said:
It's kind of funny, seems like I have found myself owning all three (Windows, Linux and Mac) because each has a strength that I choose to exploit. There is no one perfect platform for me I guess.

Kind of sums it up. Computers are tools, and tools are optimized to excel at certain tasks. Using the appropriate tool for the job goes a long way towards making one satisfied. Then again, I find at least 80% of all problems and all solutions are more directly attributable to the operator of the tool than the tool itself. The appropriateness of the tool just intensifies the competency or incompetency of the operator.

Oneironaut · Feb 28, 2013

Here's what I like about Macs:

They "just work". With my old Windows computer, I thought it was just the normal course of things that after awhile, a computer won't be usable for a few minutes after turning it on. I'd go off and do something else for awhile because I knew it was going to be some time before I could even open a program. Then at shutdown, it always had a dozen updates to install. When I need to turn off my Mac (which is rarely), it actually just turns off! Wow, who'd have thought that!

Settings and options aren't buried under a bunch of popup menus. They're easy to find and figure out.

True plug and play capability. No going to my printer's or my camera maker's website to search for drivers because they're all included.

No AV software mucking things up and hogging resources with constant sweeps and scans.

No bloatware.

Uninstalling apps is much easier.

Program files generally aren't flung throughout the system.

No Registry collecting crud and slowing things down over time.

Seamless integration of hardware and software.

Active developer community that actually cares if an application they're creating is useful and integrates as well as any other.

Macs last longer and hold their resale value longer. My Macbook Pro is five years old, which is ancient in computer years, yet it's as fast as the day I got it. I know that after only three years into my old Windows computer's life it was down to a crawl.

As a graphic designer, I understand the value of UX (user experience). Not only is the UI more pleasing and much smoother, it says to me "We can do this all day" whereas even the latest Windows desktop UI says "Not too much fun now, get back to work".

I could think of more, but that's a start.

vansmith · Feb 28, 2013

Just to play devil's advocate here:

Oneironaut said:
True plug and play capability. No going to my printer's or my camera maker's website to search for drivers because they're all included.

Have you tried setting up a printer in Windows since 7? It's just as easy.

Oneironaut said:
Uninstalling apps is much easier.

Unless it came as a pkg file with no uninstaller.

Oneironaut said:
Active developer community that actually cares if an application they're creating is useful and integrates as well as any other.

That makes it sounds as if that's exclusive to the OS X ecosystem. Second, go try a QT app or one of the many non-native apps that look and behave worse on OS X than on any other platform (Firefox and LibreOffice for example).

dtravis7 · Feb 28, 2013

Van, Windows 7 is much better at Plug and Play than XP and even Vista, but overall OSX with my external hardware has been better than W7 but both are good in that area. Way back when XP came out I was impressed with P&P with XP! We have come a long way since then!

I do feel though that W7 and Windows in general support much more hardware as there is more hardware out there with Windows support and drivers.

TattooedMac · Feb 28, 2013

Bottom line, it's not really at all about the Mac hardware but OS X. Members here LOVE the OS that just happens to come with great hardware.
That's what it's about for me anyways.

What's so great about Macs?

mdurkin

pigoo3

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dtravis7

chscag

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Groovetube

mdurkin

pigoo3

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mdurkin

mdurkin

mdurkin

pigoo3

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Groovetube

mdurkin

bobtomay

,

pigoo3

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XJ-linux

Oneironaut

vansmith

Senior Member

dtravis7

TattooedMac

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