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t-lo
08-24-2005, 12:06 PM
One of the huge selling points for Apple computers is that you don't have to worry about viruses, spyware, etc. Why/How are they so secure?

macguy.nielsen
08-24-2005, 12:33 PM
Well it has a little to do with the fact that the Apple market is a lot smaller then the PC market. Other things are that the OS is a lot more stable then Windows. Taking those factors and a couple others into play and you don't get viruses. I'm sure that it will happen sometime, but until that happens, there still hasn't been a successful virus written to date :)

t-lo
08-24-2005, 12:47 PM
It's just so hard to believe that although all the factrors you metioned are true no one has been able to do it yet. Especially since Apple has gone so long being inpenetrable you know there are hacker kids just itching to hit Macs. For all the people in the world, it's amazing no ones done it yet.

rman
08-24-2005, 12:52 PM
One of the things a virus needs to do is gain control of the system. Which is easy enough in windows as you see. You would need root access to do major damage in OS X, which is not enabled at default. As a non privilege user, the most damage you can do is to yourself. But that does not mean a virus will not be created, it is only a matter of time.

Murlyn
08-24-2005, 12:56 PM
Actually the biggest problem with Windows and virus' etc is it's registry which is writeable by pretty much anyone, while the Mac does not have this.. if you want to do anything that writes to any system files, you will need your administrator password. If you're surfing the web and all of a sudden it asks for authorization and you're not even installing anything.. you would just hit cancel and boom.. no virus. This is just theory here, but all scenarios you'll need to input your administrator password in, to allow the virus, trojan etc to do whatever it is it wants to do. At this point there are none and I guess there could be, but it would be a security issue with the user (social engineering) and not Mac OS X.

A tiny tiny bit might have to do with the Apple's marketshare, but it is so tiny, it's really not even worth worrying about.. what I said above is the real issue. And of course if anybody can add to this discussion we would all be pleased to hear it :)

t-lo
08-24-2005, 01:06 PM
So a better way to put it would be this; Apples don't have viruses, spyware, etc., now. OR Will hackers never be able to find a way around the admin. password issue?

schweb
08-24-2005, 01:09 PM
I would never underestimate the hacker so they may be able to some day. But also think about home many gullible computer user there are out there who would just willingly enter the password as soon as they see the box pop-up?

Don't think they would? Just think about how many people fall prey to phishing scams.

t-lo
08-24-2005, 01:12 PM
yeah, that's what I'm talking about. If the pop up says please enter your password some people would.

Murlyn
08-24-2005, 01:52 PM
Absolutely, so inherently it's much safer than Windows, and due to the lack of virus etc we don't have to worry about gullible users, once / if that changes, then the more gullible users we have (marketshare) then the more possibilities of the spread of problems, but if things do not change, you would still be as safe as you monitor when you stick your admin password in :)

mynameis
08-24-2005, 02:37 PM
If Windows would install with the default account not having admin privledges, it would be a lot better, but even that wouldn't stop people from logging in as admin and installing all kind of nasty stuff.

PowerBookG4
08-24-2005, 03:10 PM
I think if windows had it more like osx.. where you are the admin but you still need to put your password in to install programs or change setting then it would be alot more stable and usable os.. I switched over to macs because of how easy it was for a virus just to float on in and I got tired of playing around with virus software and what not so I was happy to say that I am a proud mac owner now and I don't think that if a mac does get a virus that I will switch back, like everyone else was saying I think that if there was to get a mac os x virus that it would have to ask you for your password for it to cause serious damage so alot of people who know what they are doing are not just going to put their password in just because it asks for it, although they can hide the password box so that you think its because your changing a system setting that you have wanted to chage.. (maybe they will have it ask you for your password when resizing the dock or changing your background) and then it will install the virus then, never under estimate the power of the hacker mind they can pretty much do what ever they wanted.

timswim78
08-24-2005, 09:17 PM
I think if windows had it more like osx.. where you are the admin but you still need to put your password in to install programs or change setting then it would be alot more stable and usable os.. I switched over to macs because of how easy it was for a virus just to float on in and I got tired of playing around with virus software and what not so I was happy to say that I am a proud mac owner now and I don't think that if a mac does get a virus that I will switch back, like everyone else was saying I think that if there was to get a mac os x virus that it would have to ask you for your password for it to cause serious damage so alot of people who know what they are doing are not just going to put their password in just because it asks for it, although they can hide the password box so that you think its because your changing a system setting that you have wanted to chage.. (maybe they will have it ask you for your password when resizing the dock or changing your background) and then it will install the virus then, never under estimate the power of the hacker mind they can pretty much do what ever they wanted.

The next version of Windows (Vista) is supposed to implement this feature. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/windowsvista/evaluate/feat/secfeat.mspx
However, it is almost gauranteed that people will disable this feature and make themselves succeptible to viruses.

As far as OS X or another *nix operating system getting hit by a virus, there is a possibility. So, OS X and Linux users are safe, but not invincible. A virus that could infect Linux systems was found more than 4 years ago.
http://www.linux.org/news/2001/03/28/0001.html

d-funct
08-24-2005, 09:45 PM
The major problem I found when setting up non privileged user that it is almost impossible for them to install programs without logging in to the admin account ... unlike OSX where if something needs to alter your system files it will ask for the admin password and tell you what its for.

Windows security has a long way to come before it secure but saying that the only way to be 100% secure from hacks on any platform/OS is to not turn your computer on full stop :)

dogboy443
08-25-2005, 11:28 AM
Don't forget that nasty Auto-Start Virus from the mid '90s. It got into everyones systems. Not too damaging but then it was 7200's and other Power Macs and the first pizza box G3's and it caused a huge drop in machine speeds while it was being bloated by mini-files. Mac Addict didn't help the matter with distributing it's famous CD's infected with the virus two months in a row. Not too bitter all these years later. :robot:
Well it has a little to do with the fact that the Apple market is a lot smaller then the PC market. Other things are that the OS is a lot more stable then Windows. Taking those factors and a couple others into play and you don't get viruses. I'm sure that it will happen sometime, but until that happens, there still hasn't been a successful virus written to date :)

Abdiel
08-25-2005, 11:50 AM
I always felt that one of the main problems with Windows and especially IE is that Windows was too concerned with giving web developers tools to take information from your computer and to market their products and not concerned enough with user privacy.

They were very poor in informing the rank and file user of what kinds of access they were giving web developers. Sure IT guys knew...those of us who hang out on computer forums knew but casual users like my wife or my parents had no idea what kinds of power outside users had over their computer or that by saying "yes" to some box that really doesnt' explain what it's asking you that well that they were downloading spyware and god knows what else.

When the "default" setting for Windows security allows people to do things like change your homepage or insert bookmarks in your list without your knowledge that's a problem.

Windows opened the window, pardon the pun, and let the outside world into personal computers because that kind of power appealed to the business computer user who wanted to market and sell. Then they had the nerve to act surprised when it was abused buy an unbelievable number of pop-ups, spyware and viruses.

stillimation
08-29-2005, 10:57 PM
no one likes to code unix, and if they do the dont like to mess things up the like to make their own OS

Redbrick
08-29-2005, 11:08 PM
So a better way to put it would be this; Apples don't have viruses, spyware, etc., now. OR Will hackers never be able to find a way around the admin. password issue?


if you can build it...you can tear it down....it will happen soon...

Also....I'm sure the anti-virus vendors are salavating to make some $$$ off the 1st Mac virus/email virus...whatever....heehee

Graphite
08-30-2005, 10:54 AM
OSc (classic) had I believe about 5-10 viruses.. and worms... its been around for a long time... OSX just isn't a target, and holes are patched every few months.

D3v1L80Y
08-30-2005, 11:13 AM
OSc (classic) had I believe about 5-10 viruses.. and worms... its been around for a long time... OSX just isn't a target, and holes are patched every few months.
And those classic OS 'viruses' really only affected you if you had MS Word or MS Excel version 5 or earlier for Mac. They were basically bad macros.
So IF you had MS Word or Excel v.5 or earlier...AND if you used macros with those, then you could have been affected. It didn't really affect your machine, just those apps. You could easily reinstall them and poof!...the problems disappeared. Or just not use macros in those apps...either or.

Still, some people like to call them viruses.