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View Full Version : Who is to blame? (warning: rant)



MYmacROX
02-10-2011, 03:18 PM
Just read this story about children racking up iTunes bills with in-app purchases.
Technolog - Do iPhone app purchases prey on kids? (http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/02/10/6024491-do-iphone-app-purchases-prey-on-kids)

Really though, is it the app developer's fault or Apple's fault or the parents' fault?

Why is it parents allow their kids to do whatever they want and then blame someone else when it comes time to "pay the piper"? I've seen other stories where they get mad their kid racked up a $5,000 cell phone bill from watching an entire TV series on their phone. REALLY MOM AND DAD?!! Grow a pair and actually spend a few minutes with your child before allowing them (that's right - I said "allow") to have something like a mobile phone or iPod ...or computer or TV. The same goes for turning your kids loose without proper training on how to behave in public. "Oh no, telling your kid that certain behavior is rude would be stifling their creativity or personality." Give me a break! Why do we have loud-mouth idiots ruining movies and knocking old people over at the mall? Because the parents don't care enough to teach/train them.

I give a very tiny % of allowance to the fact that some people just will not learn regardless of how much time/energy is put into training them. But that certainly does not account for the vast majority of idiots misbehaving, being irresponsible, and expecting Mom and Dad to cover their butts when their called into accountability. Don't believe me? Look at how crowded our jails are.

Sorry, had to get that off my chest. I'm sick with a sinus infection and just feeling extra "cranky" today. haha :P

Kevriano
02-10-2011, 03:33 PM
Nice rant, hope you feel better.
Look at it this way, in app purchases are a tax on the stupid....

pigoo3
02-10-2011, 03:33 PM
It's just like playing Ozzy Osbourne records backwards...(back in the 1980's I think)...and hearing a "secret" message to kill. Is:

- Ozzy Osbourne to blame for making the recording?
- Are music companies to blame for no warning label?
- Are parents to blame for purchasing electronics to listen to the music to blame?
- Are parents to blame for not enough supervision of the children?

It's about taking personal responsibility. In this case the parents are responsible for what their children do & don't do.

Of course lawyers (sorry Kash & any other lawyers in the house) in order to earn a fee, will argue the technicalities & details of just about anything...so this is how "wacky" situations like this see the "light of day".

Just my humble opinion,;)

- Nick

osxx
02-10-2011, 03:50 PM
Its simple really they give the lucky ones iTunes gift cards if they are responsible they
budget the card for things they really want if they are frivolous the card amount is emptied wait till next month's allowance or do without no shock to parents. When I was
growing up you got things on your birthday and Christmas no allowance and if you wanted
something you got out and mowed yards and painted houses and fences you did not beg
or demand mom or dad get it for you.

Audio.Trench
02-10-2011, 04:01 PM
This is the price these lazy parents must pay for their lack of parenting skills.

I say they deserve it. You neglect to teach your child to follow good moral/ethical values, you pay the price.

They're getting mad because they know it's their fault, and can use these large corporations as a facade to cover their mistakes.

iggibar
02-10-2011, 04:41 PM
I remember when my parents got me my first cell phone. It was a basic flip phone from att with just b/w text. It had this feature to go access an "online network." I tried connecting to it, and it worked, but all I did was see what it was, didn't purchase anything. The additional fee for just doing that was more than 10 bucks. It was enough for my dad to get angry and cancel my phone. Learned my lesson real quick. If you want something, pay for it yourself! If my child ever ran a bill past 100 dollars in extra fees/charges, they're be covering it. If they even came close $5000, which is clearly the child's AND parents fault for doing something without knowledge of what they are getting themselves into(in this case), they are getting the boot!

Doug b
02-10-2011, 04:51 PM
Just read this story about children racking up iTunes bills with in-app purchases.
Technolog - Do iPhone app purchases prey on kids? (http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/02/10/6024491-do-iphone-app-purchases-prey-on-kids)

Really though, is it the app developer's fault or Apple's fault or the parents' fault?

Why is it parents allow their kids to do whatever they want and then blame someone else when it comes time to "pay the piper"? I've seen other stories where they get mad their kid racked up a $5,000 cell phone bill from watching an entire TV series on their phone. REALLY MOM AND DAD?!! Grow a pair and actually spend a few minutes with your child before allowing them (that's right - I said "allow") to have something like a mobile phone or iPod ...or computer or TV. The same goes for turning your kids loose without proper training on how to behave in public. "Oh no, telling your kid that certain behavior is rude would be stifling their creativity or personality." Give me a break! Why do we have loud-mouth idiots ruining movies and knocking old people over at the mall? Because the parents don't care enough to teach/train them.

I give a very tiny % of allowance to the fact that some people just will not learn regardless of how much time/energy is put into training them. But that certainly does not account for the vast majority of idiots misbehaving, being irresponsible, and expecting Mom and Dad to cover their butts when their called into accountability. Don't believe me? Look at how crowded our jails are.

Sorry, had to get that off my chest. I'm sick with a sinus infection and just feeling extra "cranky" today. haha :P

QFT

I agree with every single thing you've stated. It really hits home with me because I've noticed that this type of behavior is a lot more prevalent here in the States as opposed to places I've been to over seas. Family values and the principles on which they are built back where my wife is from, seem to be really strong and there's no such thing as an excuse for a child to be disrespectful or to misbehave.

This is mostly because children aren't spoken to as if they're retarded. It's also because children are spoken to... in general. The parents take their time and speak to them like they are... *gasp* capable of understanding the language in which they are being spoken to. Whadda concept, eh ?

I can go on forever about this but I'll cut myself off now, while my fingers are still attached.

Doug

torbjoern
02-10-2011, 05:16 PM
My parents have never had to pay a dime for my cell phone bill.

Saying that the iPhone in-app purchases "prey on kids" is an inflammatory and deceptive statement. It's the parents' responsibility to set the limits for their children.

Btw, I thought one had to enter a password before making purchases on iTunes. I would never let my child or anyone else have the password to an iTunes account connected to my credit card. It's like giving someone a carte-blanche to download anything on my bill.

ClockworkWorld
02-10-2011, 05:31 PM
It's just like playing Ozzy Osbourne records backwards...(back in the 1980's I think)...and hearing a "secret" message to kill. Is:

- Ozzy Osbourne to blame for making the recording?
- Are music companies to blame for no warning label?
- Are parents to blame for purchasing electronics to listen to the music to blame?
- Are parents to blame for not enough supervision of the children?

It's about taking personal responsibility. In this case the parents are responsible for what their children do & don't do.

Of course lawyers (sorry Kash & any other lawyers in the house) in order to earn a fee, will argue the technicalities & details of just about anything...so this is how "wacky" situations like this see the "light of day".

Just my humble opinion,;)

- Nick

Well put. Our daughter is still so young that these things are a long way off for us, but when the time comes, as parents... It's our responsibility for what she does. Any parent that tries to blame an outside influence, Apple, Marilyn Manson, the boogeyman, video games, etc... is simply passing the buck to where it doesn't belong. As a parent, it's your job to make sure that your kids are smart enough to handle themselves in the world. If they grow up and can't manage money, spend money on apps like that, or whatever, it's our responsibility for not teaching them those lessons properly. It's the duty of the parents to teach their children self control and to raise them to be mature members of the world we live in.

I don't care what lawyers or anyone else say. These types of things are purely a result of the parent not doing their job. Not everyone deserves the privilege of being a parent.

RavingMac
02-10-2011, 06:22 PM
In a somewhat related vein I am sick of the "victim" mentality that has grown up. I'm all for rights but no one has the right the never be offended and never have anything unfortunate happen to them. I wish they/I did.

I will resist the urge to get too far off track, but we (USA) have become in many ways a nation of whiners.

I'm glad we have laws and recourse to the courts, but things have gotten pretty ridiculous IMO.

When ever I read about this or that group that is suing about sports team mascots (FWIW I consider myself Native American/Caucasian mix in ethnicity) I keep hoping the judge will tell them, "Suck it up whiner baby and get a life!"

Cheers

pigoo3
02-10-2011, 06:31 PM
I don't care what lawyers or anyone else say. These types of things are purely a result of the parent not doing their job. Not everyone deserves the privilege of being a parent.

No one ever said being a parent is easy!;)

- Nick

p.s. Have you seen the movie "Idiocracy"?:

Idiocracy (2006) - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/)

If not...the part you said about "Not everyone deserves the privilege of being a parent"...is humorously portrayed in the first parts of the movie.;)

ClockworkWorld
02-10-2011, 06:32 PM
No one ever said being a parent is easy!;)

- Nick

p.s. Have you seen the movie "Idiocracy"?:

Idiocracy (2006) - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/)

If not...the part you said about "Not everyone deserves the privilege of being a parent"...is humorously portrayed in the first parts of the movie.;)

Indeed it's not easy! I shudder to think of the teen years, but no matter how hard it gets, I still really believe it's completely the responsibility of the parent how their child ends up/what they do :)

I've never seen it before, but sounds like I should :P

the8thark
02-10-2011, 06:34 PM
That's why I don't advocate giving smart phones to kids. For this reason. And if the parents or kids complain "but my kid is a teen and I need to keep in contact". Then get them a dumb phone. That can SMS and make calls. But can't do all that internet stuff where all the high phone bills usually come from.

But if the high bills are from the rare cases of sms/call over use then you can easily limit or cancel the phone service. So for that reason I think things like iphones are not very good for kids till they can learn to be responsible with them.

ClockworkWorld
02-10-2011, 06:38 PM
So for that reason I think things like iphones are not very good for kids till they can learn to be responsible with them.

That's a very good way to think about phones, or things like movies, games, music, etc. Parents seem to think so often that because the kid wants something, or "needs" something (lol...) that they have to get exactly that... But until the child is mature enough to handle whatever it is that they are wanting in the proper way, parents need to be firm enough and responsible enough to say no :|

pigoo3
02-10-2011, 06:43 PM
Indeed it's not easy! I shudder to think of the teen years, but no matter how hard it gets, I still really believe it's completely the responsibility of the parent how their child ends up/what they do :)

Like the saying goes..."Parenting is the hardest job you'll ever love!". Of course everyday is a new day as the kids get older...they face new challenges, they get smarter/more intelligent...and thus the challenges for the parents continue to change & evolve.

Just when you think you got this "parenting thing" figured out...BAMM...you get hit with something new out of left field.


I've never seen it before, but sounds like I should :P

It's certainly no Oscar winning movie!;) The basic premise is...the more educated career focused folks keep putting off having children (or don't have any at all)...while the fun loving, live for today, less educated folks keep having children by the dozen.

Eventually the "dumb" people inherit the earth...and thus you have "Idiocracy"!;)

- Nick

ClockworkWorld
02-10-2011, 06:52 PM
Like the saying goes..."Parenting is the hardest job you'll ever love!". Of course everyday is a new day as the kids get older...they face new challenges, they get smarter/more intelligent...and thus the challenges for the parents continue to change & evolve.

Just when you think you got this "parenting thing" figured out...BAMM...you get hit with something new out of left field.


It's certainly no Oscar winning movie!;) The basic premise is...the more educated career focused folks keep putting off having children (or don't have any at all)...while the fun loving, live for today, less educated folks keep having children by the dozen.

Eventually the "dumb" people inherit the earth...and thus you have "Idiocracy"!;)

- Nick

I really can't wait for every moment of being a parent! So far it's been a blast :P I know that sounds pretty naive! But I look forward even to the challenges :) Even on the worst day that could come I'd never want to imagine a life without our little girl.

Ah! Well, sounds like you basically summed it up there :D

baggss
02-10-2011, 06:58 PM
That's why I don't advocate giving smart phones to kids. For this reason. And if the parents or kids complain "but my kid is a teen and I need to keep in contact". Then get them a dumb phone. That can SMS and make calls. But can't do all that internet stuff where all the high phone bills usually come from.

But if the high bills are from the rare cases of sms/call over use then you can easily limit or cancel the phone service. So for that reason I think things like iphones are not very good for kids till they can learn to be responsible with them.

I did this more than a few times with my oldest. She hated it but as soon as she moved to College I booted her of my cell plan and she was on her own. Suddenly sending 5000 texts a month was a big deal because she couldn't afford unlimited. She's been on her own since and more than once she's gone a few weeks with no cell because she can't pay the bill.

My youngest is a bit different but I have caught her violating my rules about when the phone can be used and when it can't. Locking her iPhone down where all she could do was text and call didn't make her happy. That lasted over 6 months. I'm sure there will be more stupidity before she heads to college in the fall but once she's gone, she's off my cell plan too.

Far too many parents give up their responsibilities to the TV or the computer or the cell phone and so on. It's not easy but you have to keep track plain and simple.

G4 ibookboy
02-10-2011, 09:11 PM
im in the bail bond recovery business aka bounty hunter and i see this on a daily basis... the people we go and pick up for not going to court are getting younger and younger and when we have to pick up a teen age bond jumper.... the parents are like you cant be serious you mean my kid has to go to court and face their charges.. it really doesnt suprise me then how parents will give unlimited access to something then cry when the bill gets to be a major problem!

pigoo3
02-10-2011, 10:22 PM
im in the bail bond recovery business aka bounty hunter and i see this on a daily basis...

Sounds like an interesting job!:)

- Nick

XJ-linux
02-10-2011, 10:26 PM
im in the bail bond recovery business aka bounty hunter and i see this on a daily basis... the people we go and pick up for not going to court are getting younger and younger and when we have to pick up a teen age bond jumper.... the parents are like you cant be serious you mean my kid has to go to court and face their charges.. it really doesnt suprise me then how parents will give unlimited access to something then cry when the bill gets to be a major problem!

Interesting... The State of Illinois outlawed the commercial bail bond industry, including the practice of bounty hunting, in 1963. Illinois won't even allow bail enforcement agents from other states to come into the state to capture someone who's fled from a different state. I'll have to ask around and see if they repealed the 725 ILCS 5 Code recently. I assume you mean Indiana by "Chicago Illinois Area"?

pigoo3
02-10-2011, 10:34 PM
I assume you mean Indiana by "Chicago Illinois Area"?

Yeah...Gary, Indiana is probably good "Bounty Hunter" territory!;)

- Nick

chas_m
02-10-2011, 10:42 PM
What do you mean "eventually"?

Idiocracy is, as far as I can tell, a documentary about something that's already happened. It's only thinly disguised as being set in "the future" to be sure that the people it's portraying don't get that it's THEM they are talking about.

pigoo3
02-10-2011, 11:17 PM
What do you mean "eventually"?

Idiocracy is, as far as I can tell, a documentary about something that's already happened. It's only thinly disguised as being set in "the future" to be sure that the people it's portraying don't get that it's THEM they are talking about.

Ha ha! I was hoping things hadn't gotten that bad yet!;)

- Nick

6string
02-11-2011, 12:45 AM
hope you feel better soon MYmacROX :)
Sinus infections suck big time.

G4 ibookboy
02-11-2011, 07:46 AM
yeah, i live in the suburbs of chicago but work in indiana.... our office is about 1 mile from majestic star casino. illinois will soon have commercial bail bonds again though as the state continues to get broker by the day, soon the state will not be able so support being in the bail business and commercial bail will return. most of the time, we are looking for our bond jumpers in gary indiana what a lovely town!

G4 ibookboy
02-11-2011, 07:51 AM
Interesting... The State of Illinois outlawed the commercial bail bond industry, including the practice of bounty hunting, in 1963. Illinois won't even allow bail enforcement agents from other states to come into the state to capture someone who's fled from a different state. I'll have to ask around and see if they repealed the 725 ILCS 5 Code recently. I assume you mean Indiana by "Chicago Illinois Area"?

Illinois will allow a fugitive recovery agent to come into the state to pick someone up.... however we cannot do the physical arrest, we have to locate the person and have the local police arrest them then the local pd places the person in our custody at the local police station. just had a bail jumper flee to illinois and we were able to pick him up at the lake county jail in waukegan illinois. glad we got him off the street, he likes to set dogs on fire.

XJ-linux
02-11-2011, 09:30 AM
Things have changed I guess. I've never heard of a LEA remanding custodial care of a fugitive of the court to an out of state civilian entity for transport pursuant to arrest. It would almost appear to be indirect opposition to the law as written. Of course, Chicago doesn't seem to feel the need to play by the same rules as the rest of the state. Learning all sorts of stuff on M-F.

(725 ILCS 5/103‑9) (from Ch. 38, par. 103‑9)
Sec. 103‑9. Bail bondsmen. No bail bondsman from any state may seize or transport unwillingly any person found in this State who is allegedly in violation of a bail bond posted in some other state. The return of any such person to another state may be accomplished only as provided by the laws of this State. Any bail bondsman who violates this Section is fully subject to the criminal and civil penalties provided by the laws of this State for his actions.
(Source: P.A. 84‑694.)