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PowerBookG4
03-27-2008, 05:35 PM
Hey guys,

I have to write a term paper, and I was thinking a survey would really help my assigned argument to legalize marijuana in the United States. If you chould check a few boxes that would be really helpful :)

ogacon
03-27-2008, 05:37 PM
Medically? Or recreationally?

[EDIT]: BTW, in your poll, "Have you TRIED it" doesnt mean they are for or against legalizing it. I've done a few status offences just once or twice, but don't necessarily want the age requirement to go down. Or make them legal -Recreationally-

I really don't think it would be a good idea for pot to be legal and able to be sold in stores... it causes enough trouble as it is for parents. Now, if people were RESPONSIBLE and just did it under moderation with a sober person around and proper health concerns, that would be a different story, but highly unlikely. Yes, people will get it anyway, but then it is not as easy as "Hey 'brother', can you buy me some pot?"

On the other hand... if they legalized it recreationally, which I highly doubt will ever happen, they could control it much better. Also, they would be able to add 'fees' and 'pot tax' on it which would probably make it cost a lot more than it does now for the average person to get it. May be more annoying to have it legal than illegal for the people who do use it.

Medically, I think should be fine in certain situations. The penalty and social hate for it (can't think of the word right now...) I fell are way too high. There are plenty other things to be worried about, and should focus on those things as opposed to just stopping a few kids in their homes having fun.

sanity1082
03-27-2008, 06:07 PM
this is always a good topic as it will bring up a heated debate. The one i have heard time and time again is "you cant overdose on marijana" i would advise you against using this argument if you are planning on it. You can OD on just about any drug, it is just very unlikely as you need to ingest a large amount of THC.

I personally don't care either way if it is legal or not. However if it is legalized i am all for taxing it heavily just like alcohol and tobacco.

Kash
03-27-2008, 06:37 PM
I would want it legalized simply to ease the strain on our prison population, a significant percent of whom are doing hard time simply for possession of small amounts of marijuana.

mynameis
03-27-2008, 06:50 PM
doing hard time simply for possession of small amounts of marijuana.

Does that really happen? I know some counties in Indiana you get a ticket for procession that will cost you less than a speeding ticket.

sanity1082
03-27-2008, 07:07 PM
Prison terms are based off how many offenses you have for it, as well as quantity you have on your person.

here (http://www.drugpolicy.org/drugwar/mandatorymin/) is a link on sentencing

cwa107
03-27-2008, 07:31 PM
Can't believe Fallooza hasn't commented on this thread yet!

Kash
03-27-2008, 07:32 PM
Does that really happen? I know some counties in Indiana you get a ticket for procession that will cost you less than a speeding ticket.

It's different in every country. In some Western European countries you can carry a small amount without violating any laws. In the US, you're screwed regardless of what amount you have.

Waterpolo820
03-27-2008, 07:42 PM
Hey guys,

I have to write a term paper, and I was thinking a survey would really help my assigned argument to legalize marijuana in the United States. If you chould check a few boxes that would be really helpful :)

My school paper had an article on this, it wasn't written that well but it did give a just case.

If you want I can scan it and post it for you, just to read and what not.

Tyler Durden
03-27-2008, 07:45 PM
I've never used it (I voted that i'd try it if it were legalized). It should be legalized for the sole reason that it would cause an immediately blow to the illegal drug trafficking industry. Something that is artificially regulated via drug busts and a controlled distribution network would become no more expensive or difficult to obtain than tobacco. This would also cut down on drug related violence.

In the long run, the amount of people that would use marijuana wouldn't increase above rates before it was legalized (see the example of Holland). This topic was discussed in my college sociology class yesterday.


I would want it legalized simply to ease the strain on our prison population, a significant percent of whom are doing hard time simply for possession of small amounts of marijuana.

No one does hard time for a small amount of marijuana.

Kash
03-27-2008, 07:53 PM
They may not serve time on their first offense, but they sure as heck would on subsequent offenses. And if you're caught in a drug free school zone, the chances of getting jail time increase exponentially, even for a first offender.

Tyler Durden
03-27-2008, 08:05 PM
They may not serve time on their first offense, but they sure as heck would on subsequent offenses. And if you're caught in a drug free school zone, the chances of getting jail time increase exponentially, even for a first offender.

Repeat offense is a different story. It's the same with any crime.

If someone is stupid enough to have drugs in a school zone, they deserve what they get. :2cents:

Kash
03-27-2008, 08:37 PM
But having marijuana in a school zone is not out of the realm of possibility, and is actually more common than one would think, hence why places like Lockney, TX instituted that insane drug testing policy.

PunkRockTuba
03-27-2008, 09:01 PM
I say legalize it and tax the mess out of it, if somebody wants to smoke it they will regardless of whether not it's legal. Our country might as well make some money off of it.

mac0s9user
03-27-2008, 09:38 PM
I have grown up around it since I was 8. I dont smoke but my parents did (until recently). Plus I dont think I can stand that moldy smell on top of the cigarettes I already have to smell. And it's expensive. There was a time a few years go where pot was more expensive per ounce than gold!

mynameis
03-27-2008, 09:38 PM
I say legalize it and tax the **** out of it, if somebody wants to smoke it they will regardless of whether not it's legal. Our country might as well make some money off of it.

I concur.

skyline1998
03-27-2008, 09:41 PM
I believe it should be legal for any medical issues, I don't want otto be recreationaly legal because people it would be abused
its also less addictive than any type of pain killer

iApple
03-27-2008, 09:47 PM
Well, heres my 2 cents..... Do i think it should be legal? Yes. Why? Because i honestly see no problem with people using it for recreation, i wont say i've never done it.... but let me put it this way...At no point did i feel like dropping out of school, not working, or going out and causing trouble... And to the person that said not to use "You cant overdose on mary j", it really is nearly impossible. To OD on pot you would have to smoke 10x your body weight in pot. So if you weigh 180lbs, you would have to smoke 1800lbs of pot to OD which is pretty much impossible to do in a day....IMO the only reason that pot is not legal in the US is that it would be waaaay to hard for the government to regulate, if not impossible, i mean people would still be able to grow it and sell it so. Government can't regulate which means they cant tax it, therefore they are not making money of it , so they wont legalize it. But yes, i think it should be legal.

jah
03-27-2008, 10:06 PM
anytime i hear "THE WAR ON_________" i cringe

would be good to see the gringo best effort spent in a positive way on issues that are resolvable as opposed to an endless downward spiral.

Tyler Durden
03-27-2008, 10:11 PM
But having marijuana in a school zone is not out of the realm of possibility, and is actually more common than one would think, hence why places like Lockney, TX instituted that insane drug testing policy.

It's definitely not. I'm sure there are kids that carry drugs to school every day. They're just that...kids. They get charged as juveniles, get a slap on the wrist, and have their records sealed. An adult carrying illegal drugs into a school zone knows better. They're likely doing so with the intent to distribute.

puaerotch
03-27-2008, 10:20 PM
In the US, you're screwed regardless of what amount you have.
That's not entirely true. There are some places within the United States that have legalized the possession of small amounts. Couldn't tell you exactly where and how much you can have, as it doesn't concern me at all, but I know it is a pretty small amount.

I am indifferent towards the whole legal debate. Only drugs I have ever taken are over-the-counter or prescription drugs that you buy at the store. I wouldn't be opposed to legalizing it but I won't be disappointed when it doesn't happen.

PowerBookG4
03-27-2008, 11:41 PM
My school paper had an article on this, it wasn't written that well but it did give a just case.

If you want I can scan it and post it for you, just to read and what not.

Thanks but no thanks, it wouldn't be right to see your paper while I am writing mine.


Can't believe Fallooza hasn't commented on this thread yet!

I know right? This is his kind of thread.


It's different in every country. In some Western European countries you can carry a small amount without violating any laws. In the US, you're screwed regardless of what amount you have.

Yeah, there are a lot of other countries that allow small amounts, and in some parts of the US, like Denver, but the state law is still in effect so if you get caught even though the city says its ok, the state says its not so you still get arrested, so its stupid that the law says you can if you really can't.


Prison terms are based off how many offenses you have for it, as well as quantity you have on your person.

here (http://www.drugpolicy.org/drugwar/mandatorymin/) is a link on sentencing

Thanks for the link! I'll probably be using it in my research!


Does that really happen? I know some counties in Indiana you get a ticket for procession that will cost you less than a speeding ticket.

I actually didn't know this, its funny how such a minor offense it is there. Still not legal, but it does raise a question why people in the US are going to jail while people in india are getting a ticket worth less then a speeding ticket for the same act.


I would want it legalized simply to ease the strain on our prison population, a significant percent of whom are doing hard time simply for possession of small amounts of marijuana.

Exactly, we are paying so much money in taxes to support the imprisonment of people who were in possession of marijuana.


Well, heres my 2 cents..... Do i think it should be legal? Yes. Why? Because i honestly see no problem with people using it for recreation, i wont say i've never done it.... but let me put it this way...At no point did i feel like dropping out of school, not working, or going out and causing trouble... And to the person that said not to use "You cant overdose on mary j", it really is nearly impossible. To OD on pot you would have to smoke 10x your body weight in pot. So if you weigh 180lbs, you would have to smoke 1800lbs of pot to OD which is pretty much impossible to do in a day....IMO the only reason that pot is not legal in the US is that it would be waaaay to hard for the government to regulate, if not impossible, i mean people would still be able to grow it and sell it so. Government can't regulate which means they cant tax it, therefore they are not making money of it , so they wont legalize it. But yes, i think it should be legal.

you made some really great points! thank you!



That's not entirely true. There are some places within the United States that have legalized the possession of small amounts. Couldn't tell you exactly where and how much you can have, as it doesn't concern me at all, but I know it is a pretty small amount.

I am indifferent towards the whole legal debate. Only drugs I have ever taken are over-the-counter or prescription drugs that you buy at the store. I wouldn't be opposed to legalizing it but I won't be disappointed when it doesn't happen.

It was denver. I personally haven't done drugs either, but this was the easiest topic to write about.

This is such a hot thread, so many responses in such a short time! Thank you guys for your input!

nbrowser
03-28-2008, 12:15 AM
You should do some research on the Canadian stance on the issue, some people here have created a movement to decriminalize the stuff, heck we even have a federal party named after the stuff, personally, I've tried it, didn't like it, don't care either way but if it is decriminalized, like one poster already said, tax the living bejeezes out of it !

Kash
03-28-2008, 12:43 AM
It's definitely not. I'm sure there are kids that carry drugs to school every day. They're just that...kids. They get charged as juveniles, get a slap on the wrist, and have their records sealed. An adult carrying illegal drugs into a school zone knows better. They're likely doing so with the intent to distribute.

I'm pretty sure 18 year old seniors wouldn't get tried as juveniles.

ogacon
03-28-2008, 12:46 AM
I'm pretty sure 18 year old seniors wouldn't get tried as juveniles.

Ya I did.

Haha... jk.

Soulwar
03-28-2008, 12:50 AM
Term papers and articles, on legalizing marijuana, has been excessively done.
How about looking at why alcohol is legal and marijuana isn't. How many people have died, injured, fought, commited crimes or killed others due to alcohol? How many from marijuana?
I used to smoke and know a lot of people who still do. I've never seen or heard of anyone get into a fight because they were too stoned or wreck there car or die from it. If you do here about marijuana being involved, alcohol is always mentioned with it.
So why not ban alcohol and legalize marijuana? Now that would be an interesting topic for a term paper.

Leukeh
03-28-2008, 12:54 AM
"Why is marijuana not legal? Why is marijuana not legal?
It's a natural plant that grows in the dirt.
Do you know what's not natural?
80 year old dudes with hard-ons. That's not natural.
But we got pills for that.
We're dedicating all our medical resources to keeping the old guys erect,
but we're putting people in jail for something that grows in the dirt?" - Lazy Boy


Funniest song in existence...

PowerBookG4
03-28-2008, 01:43 AM
Term papers and articles, on legalizing marijuana, has been excessively done.
How about looking at why alcohol is legal and marijuana isn't. How many people have died, injured, fought, commited crimes or killed others due to alcohol? How many from marijuana?
I used to smoke and know a lot of people who still do. I've never seen or heard of anyone get into a fight because they were too stoned or wreck there car or die from it. If you do here about marijuana being involved, alcohol is always mentioned with it.
So why not ban alcohol and legalize marijuana? Now that would be an interesting topic for a term paper.

I can't it has to be the legalization of Marijuana, The war on Iraq, Is it moral for homosexuals to adopt children ( I think they should be able to, but I honestly don't think I could find enough research and if I did, write enough to fill the requirements), or about affirmative action.

I am going to talk shortly about the prohibition of alcohol though.

PowerBookG4
03-28-2008, 01:44 AM
"Why is marijuana not legal? Why is marijuana not legal?
It's a natural plant that grows in the dirt.
Do you know what's not natural?
80 year old dudes with hard-ons. That's not natural.
But we got pills for that.
We're dedicating all our medical resources to keeping the old guys erect,
but we're putting people in jail for something that grows in the dirt?" - Lazy Boy


Funniest song in existence...


I feel like quoting that in my paper, even though I know I won't because it doesn't bring much to the paper, and I dont' think lazy boy is a good source lol.

PerryLynch
03-28-2008, 06:32 AM
Do some googling about Prohibition in the US in the 1920s. There are some interesting similarities: Making it illegal to buy or sell alcohol in this country led to the continued rise of organized crime, and the 1920s and 30s had some incredibly violent criminal activities. When prohibition was repealed, the crime rate went down instantly. And then look up federal excise taxes on alcohol - be amazed at how much money our government pulls in every year because we like to drink.
And then look at states that still have state-controlled liquor stores. How much revenue do they get out of it?

There's your arguments for legalizing it: Crime reduction, and a similar increase in revenue at the state and federal levels. Plus, better quality control, consistent packaging, etc for the consumer.

Good luck

GLeN
03-28-2008, 07:44 AM
Don’t just look at it solely as a drug, Hemp as its otherwise known, is used for countless things. The constitution was made from Hemp; Hemp can yield 3-8 dry tons of fibre per acre. This is four times what an average forest can yield. The American flag was made from hemp, George Washington grew it himself, and you were once legally bound to grow it and could pay taxes with it. Clothes can be made from it and its better than cotton. Industrial hemp has 0.5-1% THC whilst marijuana has 3-20% THC. It can also replace oil as a fuel. It’s pretty strange that here we have this single plant with so much potential but no one would care to research about it, makes you think they illegalized it for the billionaire tobacco and paper people.
Oh and its totally free, buy some seeds and grow it out in your garden, they can't tax you unless they put a tax on you which most people wont abide by because that would be stupid :P

I would include the industrial side to fully open the story, more sides = more marks XD
Personally I would say its not addictive, people always say it will make you spend your money etc etc but no, in some sense everything can be addictive even people cleaning their macs or eating food.

my first post wohoo

charliecrosslan
03-28-2008, 08:26 AM
Where i am in the ik, about a third are supposed to have used cannabis(marijuana to you guys), and of those 20% use it regularly(as in, every day-maybe multiple times)!!

I myself believe it shouldnt be legalised here or in the US, because it would make it seem okay in people's minds, and cause them to take it up more. I think tobacco should be illegal, but it's never really gonna happen, just as cannabis is never gonna be legal realisticlly. You can hope, but it won't happen

GLeN
03-28-2008, 08:49 AM
Yeh the tobacco companies are the best magicians in the world imo half a million deaths in the us each year and no law against it, thats well harsh

Kash
03-28-2008, 10:58 AM
I'm sure you've found lots of information already, but I figured posting some more wouldn't hurt:

Why is Marijuana Illegal? (http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/12/22/whyIsMarijuanaIllegal.html)

Marijuana and the Human Brain (http://www.marijuanalibrary.org/brain1.html)

Marijuana and the Brain, Part II: The Tolerance Factor (http://www.marijuanalibrary.org/brain2.html)

And I could totally help you out with affirmative action too. I'm actually reading up on the history of the Michigan case that went before the Supreme Court a couple years ago. Very interesting stuff, provides some really good background on affirmative action and the players involved.

PowerBookG4
03-28-2008, 11:53 AM
Thanks, I actually don't have to do affirmative action :) but my next paper if I do I know where to come :)

Tyler Durden
03-28-2008, 05:06 PM
I'm pretty sure 18 year old seniors wouldn't get tried as juveniles.

Ok. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/johnl24vvr6/Smilie/thinking.gif

PowerBookG4
03-28-2008, 05:17 PM
i read that a few times too and got confused until I realized it said woudn't and not would so... it completely screwed with my head..

Tyler Durden
03-28-2008, 07:11 PM
i read that a few times too and got confused until I realized it said woudn't and not would so... it completely screwed with my head..

I know what he meant :). The http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/johnl24vvr6/Smilie/thinking.gifwas directed at what that small percentage of the school population had to do with my post.

kman445
03-29-2008, 02:10 AM
IMO, the legalization of marijuana would benefit the country completely (Canada, or the U.S.). It is Extremely easy to get weed, and by legalizing it and selling it in stores, it would eliminate the need for 'dealers' as it would be much more convenient to stop at a store where you know it isn't sprayed with some other harmful drug (ex. speed) then it would be to get a hold of a dealer, meet him/her somewhere and buy a product you are not sure about.

For me, I use it to help me sleep, dont get weird dreams and other side effects ou can get from the sleeping pills. It releases stress and just makes me relax. I smoke everyday, and i'm not a high school drop out. Im never late for work, and im not a lazy person. My average last semester was 92%. i have had the same job for 2 years, and im not broke.

On 4/20 (if you smoke weed, you know what that is, even if you dont, you probably still know what that is) you can go smoke on parliament hill in Ottawa and you wont be bothered by the cops. It is becoming more and more acceptable in society.

And why is all this controversy on legalizing marijuana? Cigarettes are ALOT worse, and addictive. Only reason its not a problem is because the government can control it and make money off of it (money rules everything). If it was simple for the government to control the distribution of weed, then my bet is that it would be legalized faster then you can say 'pot'.

Even Alcohol is more problematic then weed. like what has already been stated. People get violent when there drunk. With Mary Jane. People get together and become friends. I dont know how many friends i have made by smoking with them. Even people i thought i didn't like have become good friends. Marijuana is a common interest by many groups that everyone gets along because of it.

I also believe that the argument of weed being a gateway drug is false. I smoke everyday, but i have never tried any other drug. The 'facts' that prove marijuana to be a gateway drug are completely false. Regardless if they smoke weed or not, they would have still tried the hard drugs. I know ALOT of weed smokers, and i would say 98% of them dont do anything else.



okay, thats my rant. maybe one of the longest posts i have written. I am Also Quitting soon. and its not hard. i can go for months not smokin without wanting too. so that also throws the addiction argument out the window.

PowerBookG4
03-29-2008, 03:16 AM
Do you feel any side effects of not smoking when you stop? (Head ache, nauseousness, etc?) Or is it just a hey I didn't smoke today, and I feel like I do every day, kind of a feeling.

kman445
03-29-2008, 10:02 AM
nope, no side effects. dont feel any better or any worse when i dont smoke. i actually feel better the day after if i smoked before bed because i sleep like a rock. i feel 100% refreshed in the morning. even if its only like 6-7 hours.

i actually havnt smoked for over a week. and there are some nights this last week were i wanted to smoke because it was late, i needed to get up early, and i wasn't tired. so i just wanted it to help me get to sleep. but it wasn't a "need" for it.

louishen
03-29-2008, 10:34 AM
I said yes, but with one proviso

I would legalise normal marijuana, but keep the stronger skunk variety illegal. There is growing evidence that these extra strong varieties can be linked to mental health problems and psychosis.

Saying that, I haven't smoked weed in years

In England it is still illegal to process marijuana, but it has been downgraded to a class C drug. Despite its illegal status, however, police forces here exercise discretion so it is very unlikely that you would be arrested for procession of a personal use amount.

If you are caught smoking in public, the UK Police will most likely confiscate your dope and tell you off. The police simply do not think it is worth their while arresting people for marijuana possession (the 2 cops I know simply say there is too much paperwork, for such a trivial crime)

kman445
03-29-2008, 10:51 AM
yup, i was searched for a stupid reason (just being in a public park after 10pm, which i also think is a dumb by law). the cop asked me if i had any drugs on me (which i didn't. i dont cary around that kinda stuff). after the cop was done. i started a lengthy conversation with him. i asked him if i had had weed on me, what he would have done, he said he would have confiscated it. then if i was high, take me home sense i was driving. He said anything up to a quarter ounce they would just confiscate without any larger penalties. (at least where i live, and it would also depend on the situation, i i was selling the penalty would have been alot worse.)

it was funny the conversation we had, lasted at least 30 mins :P.

Yorange
03-29-2008, 12:00 PM
I am also in england and every year in cambridge (local city) there is an open air music festival called strawberry fair. This festival has always been known as a sort of...not really sure the best way to describe it.....but basically people know you go there and people will be smoking pot, even the organisers and police know although obviously do not encourage it.
The police at this event will generally ignore the fact you are smoking when you sitting around (probably due to not wanting to do the paper work) but will stop you if you are walking about smoking and give you a ticket with no fine (which i find pretty random) I think this shows how weed is becoming more socially acceptable and how people dont care whether others are smoking pot as long as they are doing it with other like minded people.

I also smoke weed myself pretty regularly in replacement of alcohol, i find it relaxes me after stressful days at work or whatever and where other people go to friends houses to chill out and have a few beers i will go out and chill by smoking some pot, a mentality which i think is adopted by many weed smokers, at least the ones i know. If governments treated weed in this manner and legalised it they could regulate who grows it (via licencing, while still using current resources to find illegal grow sites) and therefore tax it in order to gain a profit, i think this would also possibly reduce the cost of pot which is only expensive due the fact it is illegal and dealers know they are the only people to get it from.

Just my opinions and im sorry for the long'ish and possibly senseless jabbering of a post, but this is something ive discussed with people many times myself in the past and this seemsto be a general consensus withing the pot smoking community.

kman445
03-29-2008, 12:39 PM
I also smoke weed myself pretty regularly in replacement of alcohol


I forgot to mention that too. i dont drink any alcohol either.

PowerBookG4
03-30-2008, 01:15 PM
I am about to sit down and bang out the last 5 pages of my paper, wish me luck :)

PinkLemonade
03-30-2008, 01:24 PM
I've never tried it, but I think for medicinal uses it should be legal, not for recreational use tho.

The Vindicat3d
03-30-2008, 01:30 PM
I forgot to mention that too. i dont drink any alcohol either.

Besides the fact that you could get arrested (the cops are complete pricks about it in the US) that is a much smarter and healthier choice.

kman445
03-30-2008, 09:50 PM
i just ant to understand what you are saying, are you saying its a healthier and wiser choice to drink or smoke?

The Vindicat3d
03-30-2008, 11:23 PM
Ok... maybe not wiser, but it is in fact healthier to smoke marijuana rather than drink alcohol. Correct me if I'm wrong which I usually am... lol :)

Fallooza
03-30-2008, 11:24 PM
who is the victim?

should laws protect me from myself?

does the punishment out weight the crime?

adults should be aloud ta make the decisions of what they put into or do with their body. There are many activities in our society that we permit adults to do, such as motorcycle riding, skydiving, signing contracts, getting married and drinking alcohol or smoking tobacco. we all know the risk involved with these activities. it should be our decision ta take that risk, not the government.

The vast majority of marijuana smokers, like most other Americans, are good citizens who work hard, raise families, pay taxes and contribute in a positive way to their communities. They are certainly not part of the crime problem in this country, and it is terribly unfair to continue to treat them as criminals.

i was arrested for having a tray of seeds and stems and a mail scale. got charged with two felonies; "possession with intent ta deliver" and "running a drug house". before that id never been arrested, not even a speeding ticket. if i would have been convicted i could have served up to 5 years in jail. most likely changin mine and my daughter's lives for the worse. luckily(?) i was able ta get my charges dropped but not before i spent $7000 on my lawyer and a $1000 donation ta D.A.R.E.

also... i think all drugs, not just weed, should be legal and available ta adults.

Fallooza
03-30-2008, 11:30 PM
... but I think for medicinal uses it should be legal, not for recreational use tho.

...but why?

Kash
03-31-2008, 12:21 AM
Ok... maybe not wiser, but it is in fact healthier to smoke marijuana rather than drink alcohol. Correct me if I'm wrong which I usually am... lol :)

There's the fact that your lungs can regenerate after years of smoking in contrast to the permanent damage caused by drinking alcohol.

And Fallooza, it's because drugs are bad, mmkay? ;P

ogacon
03-31-2008, 12:45 AM
And Fallooza, it's because drugs are bad, mmkay? ;P

But then they're good Mmkay? Specially when an plane-arium. brainwashes little children to work for them.

PowerBookG4
03-31-2008, 01:05 AM
The paper has been e-mailed to my teacher, a back up copy placed on my server and saved on my computer :) I have finished.

Thank you everybody for your help!

Fallooza
03-31-2008, 01:10 AM
Can't believe Fallooza hasn't commented on this thread yet!

i want ta make sure i wasnt wasting my time in a thread that might get removed.

PowerBookG4
03-31-2008, 01:52 AM
i want ta make sure i wasnt wasting my time in a thread that might get removed.

but I'm so good at making threads that are good discussion not arguments or poor language ;)

kolevich
03-31-2008, 09:30 AM
I used to try weed. About once a half year I smoked it. But after visiting Amsterdam at the beginning of this year I think I won't smoke it anymore! :Grimmace:
Here is the story...
First day of our Amsterdam visit... Did a little walk in the center of the city then decided to visit one of the coffeshops... Asked for something light. Man sold us 2 joints. That was really light so we didn't get any effect. Then we went to another one. Decided not to ask and made random choice. Picked up "The white widow" (hope someone of you know what it is...). Very strong kind... When I came back to Russia I was told that 1) it was enough to smoke just a little bit of this sort of weed to get effect 2) it is quite heavy and doesn't make any fun. But eventually we smoked 1,5 joints each.. It has really killed us.. I have lost my consciousness for 2 times! :Oops: It was really fearful... :Grimmace: Try to avoid this sort of weed! That pretty negative experience makes me refuse from smoking weed... :Smirk:

durkajosh
03-31-2008, 04:45 PM
I smoke daily.
I have pretty much off and on for 10 years now.

When I am drunk I am belligerent, loud, offensive and borderline violent.

When I am high I just want to eat a burrito and listen to some music. I am chill, friendly and happy. I don't forget what I did, I don't regret anything that I do.

I work in a professional office environment, make good pay and have many responsibilities. Most people don't even know I smoke.

Legalize it and I will advertise it.

ogacon
03-31-2008, 04:53 PM
I don't do it really because I would feel guilty. I go to church regularily, and for the passed three years was a Student Counselor at camp. To me, it is a sin and I try to do as least of those as I can. But there are plenty things legal that if I would participate in would be a sin, so there is no reason to keep it illegal with that argument. Alcohol can be just as bad in my opinion. Both legal, or both not.

durkajosh
03-31-2008, 04:54 PM
No comment.

I don't get involved in conversation about religion.

That is your personal choice but by no means should dictate public policy for an entire country which may not practice or even believe in your religion.

That's all I am saying.

ogacon
03-31-2008, 05:03 PM
Exactly. I said that, maybe I wasn't clear. Me individually don't want to do it because of my religion. But then there are strip clubs. Are those illegal? No. Is it against my religion? Yes. Do I care that they are there? No, the country I'm in (USA) was founded on religious freedom, and by no means should be based on purely religion. Therefore, my religion says weed is bad, but so is alcohol and strip clubs yet they are still legal, why not weed? It is no worse than alcohol overall. Some aspects it is worse, some it isn't.

durkajosh
03-31-2008, 05:14 PM
Curious, what aspects of weed to you think are worse than alcohol?

ogacon
03-31-2008, 05:19 PM
Not much... heh, now that you ask. Actually can't think of anything! I'm sure I could look up some info that completely makes weed look like a devil's product. Then of course I could do the same for alcohol... It's funny, a lot of my friends smoke weed, and a few smoke cigarettes. I'm more okay with people smoking weed than cigarettes. (with the fact of "you shouldn't do that", not that I hate them or it bothers me, just don't want them to be addicted for life...)

GLeN
04-01-2008, 03:51 PM
Well for medical uses it doesnt have to be smoked, it can be put into a capsule and will actually last longer. And i heard on the news a woman saying that her kids with adhd eat a weed cookie XD and they're sorted. I think that tobacco atleast should be banned, that **** is DANGEROUS. So many deaths and not even mention of a ban? Makes sense....

and heres some from a religious view
http://www.ebeneezer.net/ritual/vegetable/offsite/bible.htm
Interesting?

dauber
04-01-2008, 04:02 PM
GLeN, it just doesn't make sense, that's all...George Carlin has a good little comment about that: smoking kills *00,000 (forgot the number) people a year, yet they ban artificial sweeteners...."BECAUSE A RAT DIED!!!!"

Anyhoo...just wanted to chime in briefly...

1) I don't smoke pot (or anything, for that matter, and in fact I have reason to believe I have an allergy to cigarette smoke), and I really don't want to be on the road when someone who's BEEN smoking it is driving.

2) However...I DO think it should be legal as a prescription.

3) It stinks...literally...at least, the times I've been around it. Almost as bad as tobacco. Smells like feet that haven't been washed in a while.

4) While I'm against recreational pot use (it's as dangerous as tobacco if not more dangerous, it stinks, it messes with people's minds, etc.), part of me thinks it SHOULD be legal. You KNOW that if that day ever comes, the government will indeed tax the daylights out of it. Also, you gotta think that legalized pot should somehow be watered down.

ogacon
04-01-2008, 11:14 PM
GLeN, it just doesn't make sense, that's all...George Carlin has a good little comment about that: smoking kills *00,000 (forgot the number) people a year, yet they ban artificial sweeteners...."BECAUSE A RAT DIED!!!!"

Anyhoo...just wanted to chime in briefly...

1) I don't smoke pot (or anything, for that matter, and in fact I have reason to believe I have an allergy to cigarette smoke), and I really don't want to be on the road when someone who's BEEN smoking it is driving.

2) However...I DO think it should be legal as a prescription.

3) It stinks...literally...at least, the times I've been around it. Almost as bad as tobacco. Smells like feet that haven't been washed in a while.

4) While I'm against recreational pot use (it's as dangerous as tobacco if not more dangerous, it stinks, it messes with people's minds, etc.), part of me thinks it SHOULD be legal. You KNOW that if that day ever comes, the government will indeed tax the daylights out of it. Also, you gotta think that legalized pot should somehow be watered down.

Not to argue with you, but to point out a few things ;)
1) The ones that will be unresponsible and drive do it now while its illegal. It's like alcohol. People under 21 (in the US) drink and drive often. Just because it is legal doesn't mean it will happen more. Legalizing will just allow the resposible people to have fun with it too.

2) Agreed.

3) I actually hated the smell the first time I smelt it, now it just has its own smell. Not bad actually (and no I don't smoke it). And tobacco as in CIGARETTES, or CIGARS? I believe both smell very different. Cigars smell delicious :) and taste just as delicious as they smell!

4) Alcohol doesn't mess with people's minds? Some people don't even remember half the things they do while drinking. Not one of my pot smoking friends forgot the whole night while they were blazed out of their minds.

Just a few rebuttles (sp?) to your statements, not mean to attack you or anything.

Fallooza
04-02-2008, 01:03 AM
GLeN, it just doesn't make sense, that's all...George Carlin has a good little comment about that: smoking kills *00,000 (forgot the number) people a year, yet they ban artificial sweeteners...."BECAUSE A RAT DIED!!!!"

Anyhoo...just wanted to chime in briefly...

1) I don't smoke pot (or anything, for that matter, and in fact I have reason to believe I have an allergy to cigarette smoke), and I really don't want to be on the road when someone who's BEEN smoking it is driving.

2) However...I DO think it should be legal as a prescription.

3) It stinks...literally...at least, the times I've been around it. Almost as bad as tobacco. Smells like feet that haven't been washed in a while.

4) While I'm against recreational pot use (it's as dangerous as tobacco if not more dangerous, it stinks, it messes with people's minds, etc.), part of me thinks it SHOULD be legal. You KNOW that if that day ever comes, the government will indeed tax the daylights out of it. Also, you gotta think that legalized pot should somehow be watered down.
should people (including the people you know that smoke) be in jail or prison for pot? anything can be abused or bad for ya. i know a guy that cant quit biting his nail. his hands look sick. should we now make it illegal so he can be made a criminal and put in jail?

GLeN
04-02-2008, 12:16 PM
Don't forget if you take over 10 apsirin you will die and oxycotton they are both legal. Its how people abuse it that needs to be sorted

dauber
04-02-2008, 12:59 PM
Fallooza -- I said I don't think recreational pot should be LEGAL, I didn't say people should go to jail for it. Maybe a fine. The laws are (theoretically) there to keep people safe, not to put people in jail. Besides...why keep the more amusing lawbreakers behind bars where we can't see 'em? :)

GLeN -- oxycontin is a prescription drug, n'est-ce pas?? I think, though, the problem is that it's much easier to control the THING being abused than the actual action of abusing. That's why you have gun control, a war on drugs, copyright enforcement. What good has any of that actually done? Have the problems they're trying to eliminate been eliminated?

GLeN
04-02-2008, 05:27 PM
Well oxycontin is a good reliever but by smashin it up into dust with bottom of a jar and snorted then its abused and it's easy to get.. Same scenario with weed but you cant practically od on it but its illegal WTF??.
The point I was trying to get across is that it's not as bad as people put across, they're other dangers that most people are unaware of and use them everyday.

Legalize it, simple

Kash
04-02-2008, 08:11 PM
Or at the very least decriminalize it.

charliecrosslan
04-05-2008, 03:34 PM
it is just as effective of your judgement as alcohol, but when you smoke a joint, you don't go to a bar or pub, where you can cause trouble, you normally sit around with mates out of the way. In that sense it is less dangerous than alcohol.

CL33Zero
04-05-2008, 09:18 PM
Legalize it. Tax it. People will not grow it themselves when buying it is much easier. And with companies mass producing it, it will not be expensive as it is now. Nowhere near as much. The only reason it is expensive and even worth growing it yourself is because its an illegal underground market. The second its legal, and it becomes mass produced, the price will fall through the floor. Its no more dangerous than any other drug that is already legal.

And I have to disagree with you charliecrossian. Sure you are out of the way smoking pot, but thats just cause your breaking the law. Of course your going to stay on a down low.

But still, you can kill yourself with alcohol, you can abuse it. And everything that is bad with weed, is present with alcohol. Other than maybe the smoke in your lungs.

I know alot of people who drink, but wont touch weed. They say its much much worse for you. I ask them why they think that? They say you get addicted, and it messes with your life. And I ask, well whats that bottle in your hand doing? Completely ruining your life? Or are you just relaxing after a hard day of work?

Anything can. You can become an alcoholic. Food can be abused. Sex drive can ruin your life. (getting with people you shouldnt) Some college students end up not passing classes because they sit in front of an xbox too long. WoW maybe? Some people spend all night playing WoW when they have to work the next day, or have school. It just depends on your intentions and self control.

I just think there should be a difference in laws between something like alcohol, and weed, that many people use to just have a good time. And things that really get you hooked. Things that you would do anything to get the money to have. But for the most part, leave the people alone for crying out loud.

And no, I have never smoked it.

CL33Zero
04-05-2008, 09:28 PM
I don't do it really because I would feel guilty. I go to church regularily, and for the passed three years was a Student Counselor at camp. To me, it is a sin and I try to do as least of those as I can. But there are plenty things legal that if I would participate in would be a sin, so there is no reason to keep it illegal with that argument. Alcohol can be just as bad in my opinion. Both legal, or both not.

I have been going to church forever. Christian and my beliefs are solid.(I would like to assume) I was raised in a Christian home. But that is just wrong. Song, dance, alcohol, weed, all these are taught not to consume your life, but saying it is a sin is an outright lie, or just a blunder to say. Ether way its very wrong. You need to understand whos telling you its wrong. Your parents, and the people in your church? Or does it say it in the Bible? Lets not forget some of the most well known stories in the Bible involve drink and wine.

ogacon
04-05-2008, 10:00 PM
I have been going to church forever. Christian and my beliefs are solid.(I would like to assume) I was raised in a Christian home. But that is just wrong. Song, dance, alcohol, weed, all these are taught not to consume your life, but saying it is a sin is an outright lie, or just a blunder to say. Ether way its very wrong. You need to understand whos telling you its wrong. Your parents, and the people in your church? Or does it say it in the Bible? Lets not forget some of the most well known stories in the Bible involve drink and wine.

I can understand what you mean. But that is why I said "To me, it is a sin". I work at a Baptist camp (However, I am Lutheran) so most of my friends are Baptists, and have stricter ideals on things than me. The Bible also states alcohol can be turned into a sin. Anything that if it gets in your way of your relationship with Jesus. Alcohol, sex, drugs, tobacco, all of thoses can eventually lead to sins, "Do not confrom with the gluttons and drunks". And since the Bible is translated, it loses some of its original meaning in translation, so under the topic of gluttons and drunks can be people who abuse any substance or act. (in my eyes, I don't judge people being bad if they do those, they are people as well as I. Personally, I don't do them because of what I believe, and understand my belief isnt 100% correct) And also, somehwere, I'll find if you really want, but I'm sure you have heard it too. The Bible states somewhere to "follow the rules of the land within reason".

Tyler Durden
04-05-2008, 10:04 PM
I can understand what you mean. But that is why I said "To me, it is a sin". I work at a Baptist camp (However, I am Lutheran) so most of my friends are Baptists, and have stricter ideals on things than me. The Bible also states alcohol can be turned into a sin. Anything that if it gets in your way of your relationship with Jesus. Alcohol, sex, drugs, tobacco, all of thoses can eventually lead to sins, "Do not confrom with the gluttons and drunks". And since the Bible is translated, it loses some of its original meaning in translation, so under the topic of gluttons and drunks can be people who abuse any substance or act. (in my eyes, I don't judge people being bad if they do those, they are people as well as I. Personally, I don't do them because of what I believe, and understand my belief isnt 100% correct) And also, somehwere, I'll find if you really want, but I'm sure you have heard it too. The Bible states somewhere to "follow the rules of the land within reason".

You may not be...but some of the biggest hypocrites i've met claim to be religious. Just look at how many pedophiles work for the church...

ogacon
04-05-2008, 10:08 PM
I agree, many people are hypocrites. I'm sorry, not being rude, but was I hypocritical in there? Or what is your point you are trying to get across?

ibookclamman300
04-05-2008, 10:14 PM
it depends on what you mean by "small amount" Kash. I'm pretty sure you have to have a lot on you for you to even get any prison time.

Tyler Durden
04-05-2008, 10:24 PM
I agree, many people are hypocrites. I'm sorry, not being rude, but was I hypocritical in there? Or what is your point you are trying to get across?

No. I was saying that you might not be hypocritical, but many religious people are.

CL33Zero
04-05-2008, 10:42 PM
No. I was saying that you might not be hypocritical, but many religious people are.

Exactly, and thats why I resent about half the Christian that I know. Growing up, my youth pastor would say, "Remember, you are just like anyone else, your no better, save for the grace of god, but you as a person, have no right to judge another, ever"

I always hate when I heard them talk in judgement about people. It just shoots down their own cause.


I can understand what you mean. But that is why I said "To me, it is a sin". I work at a Baptist camp (However, I am Lutheran) so most of my friends are Baptists, and have stricter ideals on things than me. The Bible also states alcohol can be turned into a sin. Anything that if it gets in your way of your relationship with Jesus. Alcohol, sex, drugs, tobacco, all of thoses can eventually lead to sins, "Do not confrom with the gluttons and drunks". And since the Bible is translated, it loses some of its original meaning in translation, so under the topic of gluttons and drunks can be people who abuse any substance or act. (in my eyes, I don't judge people being bad if they do those, they are people as well as I. Personally, I don't do them because of what I believe, and understand my belief isnt 100% correct) And also, somehwere, I'll find if you really want, but I'm sure you have heard it too. The Bible states somewhere to "follow the rules of the land within reason".

That is the point I was making. Anything that consumes your life can be sin. But just using it recreationally, with no real attachment to it, is not. But to say, "You have used "this" so now your a bad person" is just wrong and untrue. And the only thing is does is push people away from the church. So I can agree with your second response, much much more.

CL33Zero
04-05-2008, 10:55 PM
Just look at how many pedophiles work for the church...

Just because its a common joke, and a common thing mentioned on TV, does not mean its as common as comedians would like you to think. Not that it does not happen. But like I said, some people think Christian=perfect, and its justified, because some dont shut up about how they think they are, and how everyone else should be, and how everyone else isnt. So when something happens to mock that. Its quick to become public.

Tyler Durden
04-05-2008, 10:59 PM
Just because its a common joke, and a common thing mentioned on TV, does not mean its as common as comedians would like you to think. Not that it does not happen. But like I said, some people think Christian=perfect, and its justified, because some dont shut up about how they think they are, and how everyone else should be, and how everyone else isnt. So when something happens to mock that. Its quick to become public.

It's common enough. I just find it amusing that a group that claims to be above the rest and forces their beliefs on others is in fact often morally bankrupt.

CL33Zero
04-05-2008, 11:04 PM
It's common enough.

Among PEOPLE


I just find it amusing that a group that claims to be above the rest and forces their beliefs on others is in fact often morally bankrupt.

I have already explained this. If they are true to what they believe, then they will agree, that humans, no matter what their background, are not "moral" at all. As far as "force," well I know few that force, but many that invite.

ogacon
04-05-2008, 11:07 PM
That is the point I was making. Anything that consumes your life can be sin. But just using it recreationally, with no real attachment to it, is not. But to say, "You have used "this" so now your a bad person" is just wrong and untrue. And the only thing is does is push people away from the church. So I can agree with your second response, much much more.

:) QFT. Couldn't agree more. I have tried weed. I have been drunk. I admit iy. I smoke a cigar here and there. I have my flaws as much as anyone else. Where would the real Gospel be if you only befriended the "good" people. "For the great physician (Jesus) came not to heal the strong, but to heal the sick." And just to clarify, I'm agreeing with you, cause that annoys me too. Cause I've had people say I'm a bad person for hanging out with people who do those things (which happen to be my best friends), and for ridiculous things like poeple swearing on my wall on facebook.

ogacon
04-05-2008, 11:12 PM
It's common enough. I just find it amusing that a group that claims to be above the rest and forces their beliefs on others is in fact often morally bankrupt.

Zero had it right on. Few force, which are the ones that stand out and push people away. Many invite, which are the ones that actually have an impact on their friends. I've had a few, like 2-3 friends want to go to church more, and they told me it was because of how I act toward people. "Non-believers dont read Bibles, they read Christians."

And those "forcers" are exactly the hypocrites you mentioned in the post a few above ;)

Now to get back on topic before I become one of these hypocrites trying to force, which I am not, there is no reason really it SHOULDN'T be legal, if alcohol is.

Tyler Durden
04-05-2008, 11:15 PM
Among PEOPLE

I have already explained this. If they are true to what they believe, then they will agree, that humans, no matter what their background, are not "moral" at all. As far as "force," well I know few that force, but many that invite.

lol. Christian missionaries that go to the ends of the earth in an attempt to convert those they regard as heathens and beneath them? The arrogance of western culture (ex. religion) is one reason why so many (ex. Muslims) hate us.

Tyler Durden
04-05-2008, 11:17 PM
Zero had it right on. Few force, which are the ones that stand out and push people away. Many invite, which are the ones that actually have an impact on their friends. I've had a few, like 2-3 friends want to go to church more, and they told me it was because of how I act toward people. "Non-believers dont read Bibles, they read Christians."

And those "forcers" are exactly the hypocrites you mentioned in the post a few above ;)

Now to get back on topic before I become one of these hypocrites trying to force, which I am not, there is no reason really it SHOULDN'T be legal, if alcohol is.

It depends on how you look at it. If you're Christian and part of a missionary group that travels the globe to spread the teachings of god or whatever, you're inviting people. To everyone else, you're an arrogant prick that's attempting to force your beliefs on those you determine to be somehow spiritually below you.

ogacon
04-05-2008, 11:23 PM
As far as I know (I may be completely wrong, never was a history buff, but), one of the main reasons behind most major conquests for land were to spread religion, whether it be Christianity, Muslim, Buddhism, whatever it is. Crusades? Look at today's Islam extremists in Middle East, yes we are wrong for being there in the first place, but they are taught anyone who doesn't believe in Allah is bad. (Correct me if I am wrong, maybe I just have been not understanding what I've been told/read, Ill edit this and just say EDIT: I WAS WRONG)

Tyler Durden
04-05-2008, 11:29 PM
As far as I know (I may be completely wrong, never was a history buff, but), one of the main reasons behind most major conquests for land were to spread religion, whether it be Christianity, Muslim, Buddhism, whatever it is. Crusades? Look at today's Islam extremists in Middle East, yes we are wrong for being there in the first place, but they are taught anyone who doesn't believe in Allah is bad. (Correct me if I am wrong, maybe I just have been not understanding what I've been told/read, Ill edit this and just say EDIT: I WAS WRONG)

Exactly. I am a history person...Religion has been used as an excuse for centuries to conquer land and kill the inhabitants of a territory that were deemed a threat to the aggressor. This is precisely the reason I will never respect organized religion or take it seriously.


"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers. It tells people to go out and stick their noses in other people's business." ~Jesse Ventura

CL33Zero
04-05-2008, 11:32 PM
It depends on how you look at it. If you're Christian and part of a missionary group that travels the globe to spread the teachings of god or whatever, you're inviting people. To everyone else, you're an arrogant prick that's attempting to force your beliefs on those you determine to be somehow spiritually below you.

Well I am done. In a debate. If a person cannot agree, but still see things from your point of view, and understand what you are saying. Then it is worthy to go on. I think (ogacon) and myself have been entirely reasonable in our posts, and replies. And I have said how I understand your view of "christian" is justified. But I have explained how you should maybe consider a different point of view, at least a more open one. Based on the experiences that you have had are wrong, and you were misinformed. Its not that you have gone to far, or made anyone angry, its just your refuse to get the topic we are trying to make, not that you dont understand it, your just not even acknowledging it. So I will go on. Goodluck to you.

Edit: Jesus hates religion

ogacon
04-05-2008, 11:32 PM
Hey, he was my governer!

but, back to the 'kinda' point. I was just pointing out it isn't only Christianity that does that. :) I must agree, It is kinda hypocritical though, killing people to spread your religion? But then again, it is what you are supposed to kinda do. Spread religion. It's just a bummer people can't agree on things, and wars break out over things that are supposed to be happy :(

Tyler Durden
04-06-2008, 12:19 AM
Well I am done. In a debate. If a person cannot agree, but still see things from your point of view, and understand what you are saying. Then it is worthy to go on. I think (ogacon) and myself have been entirely reasonable in our posts, and replies. And I have said how I understand your view of "christian" is justified. But I have explained how you should maybe consider a different point of view, at least a more open one. Based on the experiences that you have had are wrong, and you were misinformed. Its not that you have gone to far, or made anyone angry, its just your refuse to get the topic we are trying to make, not that you dont understand it, your just not even acknowledging it. So I will go on. Goodluck to you.

Edit: Jesus hates religion

There ya go...we're in agreement. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/johnl24vvr6/Smilie/beerchug.gif

Tyler Durden
04-06-2008, 12:20 AM
Hey, he was my governer!

but, back to the 'kinda' point. I was just pointing out it isn't only Christianity that does that. :) I must agree, It is kinda hypocritical though, killing people to spread your religion? But then again, it is what you are supposed to kinda do. Spread religion. It's just a bummer people can't agree on things, and wars break out over things that are supposed to be happy :(

You're 100% correct. All organized religions are guilty of doing this in some way, shape, or form.