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  1. #76
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    vansmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas_m View Post
    People who say you can't use 64-bit unless you have more than 4GB of RAM are just showing off how little they know about 64-bit processing.
    Such as? You'd be producing the first real reason that it's important (aside from what I found this morning which was the technical need for it for the fingerprint scanner).

    Quote Originally Posted by danny842003 View Post
    It is clear that its pointless responding to you as you are just hating on everything apple have done with the 5S. I just cant work out why you even visit an apple forum.
    Apple does not make only the iPhone. I'm not going to blindly like everything they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by danny842003 View Post
    Well one minute he is moaning that apple didn't bump the specs on the camera. (which would have been specs for specs sake, probably making the camera worse)
    The next he is saying the 64 bit side of things is pointless and down for specs sake.
    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisabeach View Post
    No he's not. He's explaining why "some" people are unimpressed with the camera. He doesn't necessarily hold those views himself. I explained this already.
    Once again, lifeisabeach answers this one for me. For the last time, I was trying to explain what the context was, not what I feel. In fact, I couldn't care less about cameras on phones (I actually skip past these parts in reviews).
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  2. #77
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    fleurya's Avatar
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    It seems that the camera app, fingerprint scanner, and at least one third party app, Infinity Blade III, already are making use of the 64-bit architecture. Seems like a good start to me for hardware not yet released. I would bet their more intensive core apps like imovie and iPhoto make good use of it as well.
    "Give so much time to the improvement of yourself that you have no time to criticize others"

  3. #78
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    Lifeisabeach's Avatar
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    John Gruber from Daring Fireball has a review up of the 5C and 5S. He has an excellent explanation of why the move from 32-bit to 64-bit made sense and why there are such huge performance boosts.
    Daring Fireball: The iPhone 5S and 5C

    ARMv8, the architecture upon which Apple’s new A7 is designed, is a clean break. ARM’s previous instruction set dated back 20 years. ARM has always been designed for low power consumption, but 20 years ago is forever in this industry. Rather than simply add 64-bit instructions to the old ISA, ARMv8 is a clean break designed for today’s — and the future — world. From an ARM white paper introducing ARMv8:

    Fundamental to ARMv8 has to be the new instruction set, known as A64; the encoding of instructions to enable an application to utilize a 64-bit machine. ARM took the decision to introduce 64-bit through a new instruction set rather than extension of an existing instruction set for many good reasons. Most notably, and probably as no surprise, because we could develop a new independent instruction set to execute code in a lower power manner than by adding instructions to the existing instruction set. Of course, for compatibility reasons, we still support the entire ARMv7 machine in the new ARMv8 architecture, but when running 64-bit software, this part of the machine is not being used, and the area of complex legacy it had built up does not need to be active when running in the 64-bit ISA, unlike other architectures where 64-bit extension was simply added to the historical complexity and legacy of their 32-bit mode. The new ISA drew upon the years of experience of building different micro architecture implementations, so again it was defined so that these new processors can be more easily optimized for low power operation — an opportunity not really offered since the first ARMv4 machine that resulted in the now legendary low power ARM7 processors.

    What does this mean? It means, for one thing, that the biggest reason for the performance and power consumption improvements going from the A6 to A7 is the switch from the ARMv7 to ARMv8 architectures, not 32- to 64-bit. ARMv8’s improved instruction set alone has resulted in 15-20 percent performance gains while simultaneously using less power, from what I’ve been told by informed sources. And though Apple could have gone to ARMv8 while remaining 32-bit only, it made no sense not to go 64-bit.

    There are applications today — imaging, gaming, cryptography, video and photo filters — that will benefit from 64-bit despite the fact that the iPhone 5S has just 1 GB of RAM. It should prove faster overall, even if only slightly, than a hypothetical A7 that had switched to ARMv8 but remained 32-bit only.

    But the big win is laying the groundwork for the future. iOS developers should have few problems recompiling their apps for 64-bit. (My Q Branch colleague Brent Simmons on how long it took to get Vesper to compile cleanly for 64-bit: “Just a few minutes.”) Apple’s been through this transition before, with Cocoa on Mac OS X,3 and any iOS developer who didn’t see this transition coming sooner or later simply wasn’t paying attention. Many apps should be native 64-bit binaries soon. By next year, when the A7 works its way down to the mid-range iPhones, most will be. And two years from now, it’s almost certain that all new iOS devices being sold will support 64-bit. It won’t be long until Apple can consider dropping 32-bit support and going 64-bit only. By the time it becomes feasible for iOS devices to have more than 4 GB of RAM, iOS will have already been a native 64-bit platform for several years.
    But the big jaw dropper is this:

    To put that in context, the iPhone 5S beats my 2008 15-inch MacBook Pro by a small measure in the Sunspider benchmark (with the MacBook Pro running the latest Safari 6.1 beta). The iPhone 5S is, in some measures, computationally superior to the top-of-the-line MacBook Pro from just five years ago. In your *bleeeeep* pocket.
    ARM-based Macs, in another five years. Ten, tops. Calling it now!

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  4. #79
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    mrplow's Avatar
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    It's chunky read but here's a pretty extensive end-to-end review of the 5s that touches on many points raised here:

    AnandTech | The iPhone 5s Review
    External hard disk acquisition addict - but admitting the problem is the first step to a robust backup

    Please use the reputation system if you think you've been helped - top right of this post

  5. #80
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    dtravis7's Avatar
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    The A7 CPU in the 5s is BEATING the new Intel Bay Trail Atom in many benchmarks. Like in Sunspider. That is the first device CPU to do this. My jaw about hit the floor when I saw that in Anands benchmarks.

  6. #81
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    vansmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisabeach View Post
    ARM-based Macs, in another five years. Ten, tops. Calling it now!
    ARM licensees seem pretty focused on using its inherent power sipping designs for devices that need as much longevity as possible. What that means for future desktop designs is uncertain so I suppose anything is possible but Apple seems to be having tremendous success getting that battery life from Intel processors. So, I'll take that bet ($50?).
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  7. #82
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    Lifeisabeach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vansmith View Post
    ARM licensees seem pretty focused on using its inherent power sipping designs for devices that need as much longevity as possible. What that means for future desktop designs is uncertain so I suppose anything is possible but Apple seems to be having tremendous success getting that battery life from Intel processors. So, I'll take that bet ($50?).
    That'll barely cover lunch in 10 years.

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  8. #83
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    dtravis7's Avatar
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    I wish people would read that review I posted the URL to with both 32 and 64 bit benchmarks. If you think Anand and his team don't know their stuff, I have pitty for you. That CPU is that much faster and in 64-Bit even more so.

  9. #84
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    Lifeisabeach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtravis7 View Post
    I wish people would read that review I posted the URL to with both 32 and 64 bit benchmarks. If you think Anand and his team don't know their stuff, I have pitty for you. That CPU is that much faster and in 64-Bit even more so.
    I was a long-time reader of Anandtech back before I switched to Macs and was building my own PCs. They and Tom's Hardware were my go-to sites for making decisions on what components to buy based on their guides and reviews. As far as I'm concerned, what they say is godsend.

    Hey wait... I thought you weren't impressed with the 5S?

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  10. #85
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    dtravis7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisabeach View Post
    I was a long-time reader of Anandtech back before I switched to Macs and was building my own PCs. They and Tom's Hardware were my go-to sites for making decisions on what components to buy based on their guides and reviews.

    Hey wait... I thought you weren't impressed with the 5S?
    5C. At the very first I was doubting 64-Bits like most were. Benchmarks tell the story so be nice. Before the tests there no proof of it's benefits.

  11. #86
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    osxx's Avatar
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    Whats funny will be watching the competition scramble to come out with their 64bit platform.

  12. #87
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    Lifeisabeach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtravis7 View Post
    5C. At the very first I was doubting 64-Bits like most were. Benchmarks tell the story so be nice. Before the tests there no proof of it's benefits.
    Ah. Well no one should be impressed by the 5C. It literally is the iPhone 5 with a plastic shell instead of the aluminum one.

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  13. #88
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
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    Quote Originally Posted by osxx View Post
    Whats funny will be watching the competition scramble to come out with their 64bit platform.
    No kidding. And Android isn't even 64-bit capable. Errrr... at least I had read that it wasn't and making it so would be no small matter, but articles are now out saying that it is 64-bit capable and always has been. I'm confused.
    Android 64-bit support already baked in: just add hardware - SlashGear

    Certainly Linux is 64-bit capable, but my understanding is that the Java VM (Dalvik) isn't and that's going to be the challenge.

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  14. #89
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    vansmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisabeach View Post
    No kidding. And Android isn't even 64-bit capable. Errrr... at least I had read that it wasn't and making it so would be no small matter, but articles are now out saying that it is 64-bit capable and always has been. I'm confused.
    Android 64-bit support already baked in: just add hardware - SlashGear
    I'm guessing your confusion is similar in character to mine - Linux has been 64-bit for years but who knows what work is (not) needed to make the other layers 64-bit. I tried to find an answer but ended up finding things that make absolutely no sense to me.

    I'm starting to see that the 64-bit processor has a few tangible benefits now and that it's very likely that support for it will grow over time (something I never doubted but it seems that it will happen with greater speed). I'm not sure what this means for mobile platforms but it can only be exciting.
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  15. #90
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    Stretch's Avatar
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    Gruber (DaringFireball) also points out that the speed benefits aren't just because its 64bit (64bit is just an added bonus) and that most of the speed boost is because the new ARMv8 architecture design for the new A7.

    What does this mean? It means, for one thing, that the biggest reason for the performance and power consumption improvements going from the A6 to A7 is the switch from the ARMv7 to ARMv8 architectures, not 32- to 64-bit. ARMv8’s improved instruction set alone has resulted in 15-20 percent performance gains while simultaneously using less power, from what I’ve been told by informed sources. And though Apple could have gone to ARMv8 while remaining 32-bit only, it made no sense not to go 64-bit.
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