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  1. #61
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    Lifeisabeach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TattooedMac View Post
    Of course they are. I'm just wondering how they plan to pull that off since Android doesn't even support 64-bit architecture yet. I assume it was either in the pipeline for the next release already, or will be prioritized now?

    Speaking of which... Samsung has moved on from copying Apple and is now copying Dyson. Yes... they are ripping off vacuum cleaner designs and infringing on Dyson's patents (EDIT: "allegedly", I should say in all fairness).
    Dyson sues Samsung for 'cynical rip off' - Telegraph

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  2. #62
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    vansmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TattooedMac View Post
    Yes and thats how Apple sold it to the crowd.
    So, marketing? Is there any empirical evidence to back that up? I have to imagine that much of the improvement actually has to do with the newer GPU.

    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisabeach View Post
    Of course they are. I'm just wondering how they plan to pull that off since Android doesn't even support 64-bit architecture yet.
    The kernel, being Linux, can certainly be built for a 64-bit architecture (the joys of running...everywhere). As for the layers of top, who knows. The UI is written with Java and I imagine that Dalvik can be rebuilt for 64-bit but your guess is as good as mine. You know, this is an interesting question.
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  3. #63
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    TattooedMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisabeach View Post
    Of course they are. I'm just wondering how they plan to pull that off since Android doesn't even support 64-bit architecture yet. I assume it was either in the pipeline for the next release already, or will be prioritized now?
    The CEO siad its not going to happen NOW, but it will be coming in the new S5 which i reckon, have just changed their whole outlook on the S5 for a 64Bit CPU. Samsung other articles read, got a BIG kick in the shins, because they just didnt expect Apple to come out with a 64Bit Phone, and Apple has now future proofed themselves even if it cant be fully used now, at least they have done the hard yards for when Gaming/Developing Apps have caught up.

    What i find interesting, is with the Xcode 5 Seeds for the last 3 months, no-one has seen anything in there, indicating that we will be working with a 64bit architecture in the iPhone.

    On that though, in the Keynote, the Dev of Infinity Blade III said he Ported the whole game over from 32Bit to 64Bit in 2hrs and its backwards compatible as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by vansmith View Post
    So, marketing? Is there any empirical evidence to back that up? I have to imagine that much of the improvement actually has to do with the newer GPU.
    Yea Marketing, BUT its showing what power and what can be achieved with the 64Bit, and i bet companies like 2K, GameLoft, SQUARE ENIX, Phosphor Game Studios LLC and the high end Gaming Companies to move to Top Quality, big MB/GB gaming.

    As well from what i know of it, it has a lot to do with Mathematics and the computing power some Developers will be able to make powerful Apps like CAD, 3D Rendering and such as well.
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  4. #64
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    vansmith's Avatar
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    All of those companies you listed make heavy use of graphics functionality which can be divorced from the architecture of the chip. In other words, it's the GPU, not the CPU. This is not to suggest that the CPU is bad or useless but rather, at this point, rather unneeded. In fact, with only 1GB of memory (what word on the street seems to suggest) and the glut of 32bit devices that will receive priority for many developers for the foreseeable future, I can't imagine that any true potential that comes from having a 64bit processor will be seen anytime soon (for all mobile devices).
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  5. #65
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    fleurya's Avatar
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    I for one am very excited about the 5S and plan to order at 3am and/or stalk some of my local non-Apple stores for one next Friday. I was really excited about the fingerprint reader security. As a person that uses this to log into my work Thinkpad about 20 times a day, I can appreciate the little bit a time saving and ease it offer. I use my iPhone and SIRI in my car a lot, and having to punch in my passcode while driving is just not a option, so I don't use it. Now I can without having to take my eyes off the road. Plus there is so much potential for use of it beyond simple logon and purchase authorization.

    As for the 64-bit architecture, I was happy to hear about that as well. Usually for the "in between" S models they don't get huge jumps in specs. This was a big jump that will make this S model more future-proof. Also, it was something that nobody expected or rumored, so it's nice to know Apple can still pull some surprises. As far as people complaining it's useless, I'm just tired of all the hate talk. People complain Apple is always behind on specs. But then when they launch something like this (or thunderbolt not too long ago) they complain because nothing can make use of it right out of the gate. You can't complain both ways!

    As a part-time amateur photographer, I am also excited about the new camera. 8MP is the least of my concerns since I don't usually take photos with my phone that I plan to blow up to 8x10 prints or larger. The larger sensor, better light sensitivity, better flash, and better aperture are much more interesting to me. The ignorant masses that seem to only care about "empees" can whine and joke all they want. I know what really matters when it comes to photo IQ and will enjoy this camera immensely.
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  6. #66
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    osxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisabeach View Post
    Of course they are. I'm just wondering how they plan to pull that off since Android doesn't even support 64-bit architecture yet. I assume it was either in the pipeline for the next release already, or will be prioritized now?

    Speaking of which... Samsung has moved on from copying Apple and is now copying Dyson. Yes... they are ripping off vacuum cleaner designs and infringing on Dyson's patents (EDIT: "allegedly", I should say in all fairness).
    Dyson sues Samsung for 'cynical rip off' - Telegraph
    I think they are also in a battle with their fellow countrymen at LG over 4K tech.

  7. #67
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    vansmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fleurya View Post
    As far as people complaining it's useless, I'm just tired of all the hate talk. People complain Apple is always behind on specs. But then when they launch something like this (or thunderbolt not too long ago) they complain because nothing can make use of it right out of the gate. You can't complain both ways!
    It's not complaining in both cases - these specs are useless and serve no productive purpose now. You're suggesting that criticisms levelled again Apple about the overly pronounced marketing practices for a feature that serves little to no value is one that's unjustified because they are now supposedly in front. Yes, they're first to market with a 64 bit smartphone...that's of no use. This effectively moves progress horizontally instead of propelling them forward until people can make productive use of the features. Second, the criticisms are levelled against Apple because no one can conceptualize its utility. It's very hard to conceive of a phone that needs what a 64 bit processor makes possible that a 32 bit one doesn't for these types of devices. Desktops/notebooks - it makes sense for reasons related to memory usage and mathematical reasons.
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  8. #68
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    dtravis7's Avatar
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    I love Thunderbolt and am not against the 64-bit CPU in the 5s, All I said was RIGHT NOW it's not as big as a deal as some are making of it BUT it will pave the way for the future for sure. Apple is good at that.

    Thunderbolt is an amazing interface. I have never hated it.

  9. #69
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    Lifeisabeach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vansmith View Post
    It's not complaining in both cases - these specs are useless and serve no productive purpose now. You're suggesting that criticisms levelled again Apple about the overly pronounced marketing practices for a feature that serves little to no value is one that's unjustified because they are now supposedly in front. Yes, they're first to market with a 64 bit smartphone...that's of no use. This effectively moves progress horizontally instead of propelling them forward until people can make productive use of the features. Second, the criticisms are levelled against Apple because no one can conceptualize its utility. It's very hard to conceive of a phone that needs what a 64 bit processor makes possible that a 32 bit one doesn't for these types of devices. Desktops/notebooks - it makes sense for reasons related to memory usage and mathematical reasons.
    *sigh* Apple IS in front and ready for the future now. Some apps can benefit now from the 64-bit move. Others will need recompiling (I read of one developer who did it in 2 hours). Saying Apple is premature in bringing 64-bit processing to the iPhone when the apps aren't ready to take advantage of it is like saying Apple was premature in bringing Retina Display because no apps had the graphics for it. Ditto for the gyroscope and any number of other new features. Or the move from PPC to Intel. No one can be ready for non-existant hardware! Here's a good quote from an article with some experts weighing in:

    Quote from article: Apple's iPhone 5s, the A7 Chip, and That 64-Bit Question - John Paczkowski - Mobile - AllThingsD

    But chip experts say that there are some gains to be had even from a 64-bit chip without 4GB of addressable memory.
    For one thing, 64-bit integer math will allow the A7 to execute operations much faster than the 32-bit A6. “The fact that the A7 has twice as many processor registers means that more operations can occur without the processor using main memory, which is slower to access,” Carl Howe, VP of research and data sciences at the Yankee Group told AllThingsD. “This means that for some codes, the A7 will be twice as fast (or faster depending on how many memory accesses the original code had) to run code because the processor doesn’t have to use main memory as much.”
    But for most, the gains found here will be marginal, said Moor Insights analyst Paul Teich. “Double the register file adds a few percent to performance,” he said. “It’s a deep compiler and runtime VM issue. … So marginal improvements for most apps, at best. Depending on how code is written it can run a little longer without hitting main memory, but it really depends on whether you are writing a computationally intensive app or not.”
    Another benefit: ARMv8, the architecture on which the A7 is likely based, has a very efficient instruction set that’s great for resource-intensive applications. As Kevin Krewell, senior analyst at the Linley Group and a senior editor of Microprocessor Report, told AllThingsD, “The ARMv8 instruction set is a clean-slate approach with many improvements. Even without 4GB of RAM, the A7 should make it easier to build larger applications like PC-class games and programs. Apps can now become real desktop-class programs and games.”
    The caveat here is that Apple must maintain backward compatibility with legacy 32-bit apps until the 64-bit ecosystem really kicks in. Said Krewell, “The vast majority of programs will still use the 32-bit mode, so the benefits may be slow to come."
    I'm reminded of the feature of Ubuntu's phone OS where you can dock your phone and use it as a desktop computer. Apple's move here to 64-bit may be laying the groundwork for just such an option. Some time back, they had patents filed (and awarded?) for docking a smaller device to a monitor and using it as a desktop computer. So at the least, we know they have been considering it.

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  10. #70
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    dtravis7's Avatar
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    I just watched a Hands on use video with the 5s and am very impressed. Very fast, outstanding camera.

  11. #71
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    chas_m's Avatar
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    It seems to me fairly obvious that the 5s is already making use of that 64-bit architecture for things like the camera's pre- and post-processing. Might well be adding some oomph to the graphics as well.

    People who say you can't use 64-bit unless you have more than 4GB of RAM are just showing off how little they know about 64-bit processing.

  12. #72
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by vansmith View Post
    It's not complaining in both cases - these specs are useless and serve no productive purpose now. You're suggesting that criticisms levelled again Apple about the overly pronounced marketing practices for a feature that serves little to no value is one that's unjustified because they are now supposedly in front. Yes, they're first to market with a 64 bit smartphone...that's of no use. This effectively moves progress horizontally instead of propelling them forward until people can make productive use of the features. Second, the criticisms are levelled against Apple because no one can conceptualize its utility. It's very hard to conceive of a phone that needs what a 64 bit processor makes possible that a 32 bit one doesn't for these types of devices. Desktops/notebooks - it makes sense for reasons related to memory usage and mathematical reasons.
    It is clear that its pointless responding to you as you are just hating on everything apple have done with the 5S. I just cant work out why you even visit an apple forum.

  13. #73
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    TattooedMac's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=lifeisabeach;1537005]*sigh* Apple IS in front and ready for the future now. Some apps can benefit now from the 64-bit move. Others will need recompiling (I read of one developer who did it in 2 hours).

    Yea the Dev of Infinity Blade III ported it from 32Bit to 64Bit in 2 hrs. Thats all in the Keynote to see.

    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisabeach View Post
    Saying Apple is premature in bringing 64-bit processing to the iPhone when the apps aren't ready to take advantage of it is like saying Apple was premature in bringing Retina Display because no apps had the graphics for it. Ditto for the gyroscope and any number of other new features. Or the move from PPC to Intel. No one can be ready for non-existant hardware! Here's a good quote from an article with some experts weighing in:.
    +1 and no more needs to be said. My point exactly, and its called future proofing

    Quote Originally Posted by danny842003 View Post
    It is clear that its pointless responding to you as you are just hating on everything apple have done with the 5S. I just cant work out why you even visit an apple forum.
    Uh oh . . . . . . Here we go !!!! **stands back a good distance**

    @danny have you not noticed that vansmith is a Administrator of these here forums ?? Meaning he has a lot to do with Apple and their products, maybe not iPhone, and he is entitled to his own opinion, which is very much what a forum is all about, debating back and forth?
    And i would back my next paycheque that he knows more about CPU, GPU, iOS, and performance of chipsets and what holds a iPhone together more than you and probably 99% of the members here on the forum, so what vansmith has to say, in this topic and many others, its best to stand back, read what he has written and learn something . . . . So before you start having a go at one of the most respected members of this forum, stop, breathe in, think and then write something constructive !!!!
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  14. #74
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread

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    Well one minute he is moaning that apple didn't bump the specs on the camera. (which would have been specs for specs sake, probably making the camera worse)
    The next he is saying the 64 bit side of things is pointless and down for specs sake.

  15. #75
    iPhone/iOS Presentation Discussion Thread
    Lifeisabeach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danny842003 View Post
    Well one minute he is moaning that apple didn't bump the specs on the camera. (which would have been specs for specs sake, probably making the camera worse)
    The next he is saying the 64 bit side of things is pointless and down for specs sake.
    No he's not. He's explaining why "some" people are unimpressed with the camera. He doesn't necessarily hold those views himself. I explained this already.

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